RD Simon Edvinsson - Grand Rapids Griffins., AHL (2021, 6th, DET)

[norrisnick]

Maatta has been great. I also disagree with blaming all of Seider's struggles on Chiarot. He hasn't looked at as good as last year even in situations where Chiarot is not on the ice (PP for example) so that argument just falls flat.

As for Edvinsson, he's doing well in the AHL but he's not only there to put up offensive numbers. I guarantee the Wings are looking more closely at his defense and puck management. I think he'll stay there for a while, there's no rush to call him up.

Learning how to play AHL defense and puck-management when only 5-10% of the players can effectively receive and give passes is a waste of time for all involved. I acknowledge that there isn't a rush to bring him up, but there should be. We want him to learn how to be an NHL defenseman not an AHL defenseman.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Learning how to play AHL defense and puck-management when only 5-10% of the players can effectively receive and give passes is a waste of time for all involved. I acknowledge that there isn't a rush to bring him up, but there should be. We want him to learn how to be an NHL defenseman not an AHL defenseman.

So did Makar, Fox and Seider "waste time" by an extra development year or two at lower levels? There's definitely a lot that he can learn still, along with the natural progression of maturing mentally and physically which you can't really "speedrun".

 

[norrisnick]

So did Makar, Fox and Seider "waste time" by an extra development year or two at lower levels? There's definitely a lot that he can learn still, along with the natural progression of maturing mentally and physically which you can't really "speedrun".

Yes. Less so for Seider as he was coming out of the DEL and younger than the other two.

Flip side... Were Hedman, Ekblad, Dahlin, Werenski, Hughes, Heiskanen, Drysdale irreparably harmed by playing as teenagers?

 

[Our Lady Peace]

Yes. Less so for Seider as he was coming out of the DEL and younger than the other two.

Flip side... Were Hedman, Ekblad, Dahlin, Werenski, Hughes, Heiskanen, Drysdale irreparably harmed by playing as teenagers?

Well if I may use the trophy argument;

Makar (24) - Calder, Norris, Conn Smythe
Fox (24) - Norris
Seider (21) - Calder

All three are defensive zone beasts. Hence why the former two are Norris winners before age 24.


The rest;

Hedman (31) - Norris, Conn Smythe (took him until age 27 for first trophy)
Ekblad (26) - Calder (at 19, struggled for a few years and then caught up)

Dahlin, Heiskanen, Werenski, Hughes are all #1D (Drysdale isn't quite there yet) and Dahlin/Heiskanen are a cut above the other 3 currently, but they're 1st and 3rd OA picks. Edvinsson was 6th and not as NHL ready as either of those players.

Luke Hughes, Jake Sanderson, etc taking 2 years post draft. #1 OA Power taking an extra year in college after having spent his draft year there is already reaping rewards for the Sabres thus far.

So the argument goes both ways, but generally to complete and maximize a D's 200 foot skillset, you'd be best letting him dominate a league before heading to the NHL. You can learn that in the AHL, they're not just total scrub coaches and players down there. Lots of cup winning NHL coaches and coaching staff come up from that league.

 

[norrisnick]

Well if I may use the trophy argument;

Makar (24) - Calder, Norris, Conn Smythe
Fox (24) - Norris
Seider (21) - Calder

All three are defensive zone beasts. Hence why the former two are Norris winners before age 24.


The rest;

Hedman (31) - Norris, Conn Smythe (took him until age 27 for first trophy)
Ekblad (26) - Calder (at 19, struggled for a few years and then caught up)

Dahlin, Heiskanen, Werenski, Hughes are all #1D (Drysdale isn't quite there yet) and Dahlin/Heiskanen are a cut above the other 3 currently, but they're 1st and 3rd OA picks. Edvinsson was 6th and not as NHL ready as either of those players.

Luke Hughes, Jake Sanderson, etc taking 2 years post draft. #1 OA Power taking an extra year in college after having spent his draft year there is already reaping rewards for the Sabres thus far.

So the argument goes both ways, but generally to complete and maximize a D's 200 foot skillset, you'd be best letting him dominate a league before heading to the NHL. You can learn that in the AHL, they're not just total scrub coaches and players down there. Lots of cup winning NHL coaches and coaching staff come up from that league.

Agree to disagree with pretty much everything there.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Yes. Less so for Seider as he was coming out of the DEL and younger than the other two.

Flip side... Were Hedman, Ekblad, Dahlin, Werenski, Hughes, Heiskanen, Drysdale irreparably harmed by playing as teenagers?

A lot of those guys were top 3 picks which I think makes it an unfair comparison.
Even still, it’s interesting how Hedman broke out in the NHL after the lockout gave him a ”development year” in the KHL. Coincidence perhaps, but interesting.

Bottom line is I don’t think you can talk about wasting time unless a guy is putting up like 2PPG. Edvinsson is very good in the AHL but he’s not dominating like Bobby Orr.

 

[norrisnick]

A lot of those guys were top 3 picks which I think makes it an unfair comparison.
Even still, it’s interesting how Hedman broke out in the NHL after the lockout gave him a ”development year” in the KHL. Coincidence perhaps, but interesting.

Bottom line is I don’t think you can talk about wasting time unless a guy is putting up like 2PPG. Edvinsson is very good in the AHL but he’s not dominating like Bobby Orr.

If a player's primary development needs are to quicken up decision making and defending at NHL speed the AHL is not the place to be. 2ppg is the last thing we should be looking for out of Ed.

 

[lidstromiscool]

Oh? Is it because they prioritize players playing in Sweden?

No idk what that guy is talking about. AHL players are always invited.

And Montén has f***ed off so he won't play under a bad coach at the WJCs.

Like I said, Edvinsson chose not to play for Sweden at the World Juniors

 

[theslatcher]

Like I said, Edvinsson chose not to play for Sweden at the World Juniors

That's not like what you said.

He declined because of Yzerman. Nothing to do with Sweden.

 

[SirloinUB]

I think getting more reps for Edvinsson at the AHL level would be wise. The dude has only played 83 professional games and 17% of that was in the tier 2 swedish pro league. When people talk about how raw he is, this is part of it. He is unrefined and has little pro hockey experience.

Leave him in the AHL for now, let him rack up some games with less pressure and then give him a cup of coffee at the end of the season or if the team hits a run of injuries on the back end.

 

[Hockeyfrilla]

He talked positive about playing WJC in november:

Coronasjuke Edvinsson om campen: "Inte så förberedd som jag hade kunnat"

Mer hockey än du trodde var möjligt

hockeynews.se

Thought he underperformed in the summer tournament

 

[JackSlater]

Disappointed that he won't be at the WJC.

 

[lidstromiscool]

That's not like what you said.

He declined because of Yzerman. Nothing to do with Sweden.

Yzerman said the decision was up to Edvinsson. The Sweden coach said "The wishes of me and swedish hockey was to have him on the roster." Pretty clear to me that he wasn't happy with how the last tournament went.

 

[theslatcher]

Yzerman said the decision was up to Edvinsson. The Sweden coach said "The wishes of me and swedish hockey was to have him on the roster." Pretty clear to me that he wasn't happy with how the last tournament went.

Sure, the decision is always up to the player... They just play so many games if they're in the Red Wings system! Even if they were positive to play at a tournament before Yzerman talks with them. C'mon my guy.

 

[newfy]

Pretty clear to me that he wasn't happy with how the last tournament went.

Or hes just done with junior hockey and is worrying about his pro career now. Especially after Christmas, if the wings are in a playoff push you may see Edvinsson get called up to even play on the bottom pairing down the stretch.

Hes also a red wings dman injury away from an NHL pay cheque as well

 

[lidstromiscool]

Or hes just done with junior hockey and is worrying about his pro career now. Especially after Christmas, if the wings are in a playoff push you may see Edvinsson get called up to even play on the bottom pairing down the stretch.

Hes also a red wings dman injury away from an NHL pay cheque as well

Yeah you're probably right, I think it's a combination of the factors that you mentioned. I'd be shocked if he doesn't finish the year in Detroit unless Detroit falls out of the playoff hunt

 

[ThankGord]

Or hes just done with junior hockey and is worrying about his pro career now. Especially after Christmas, if the wings are in a playoff push you may see Edvinsson get called up to even play on the bottom pairing down the stretch.

Hes also a red wings dman injury away from an NHL pay cheque as well

Agreed, I think he's moved on from juniors and is focused on taking the next step. I prefer him and Kasper continuing their development in mens leagues.

 

[newfy]

Agreed, I think he's moved on from juniors and is focused on taking the next step. I prefer him and Kasper continuing their development in mens leagues.

I wouldnt really care if Edvinsson went because his team is a favourite. Kaspers team is just gonna get pumped though and hell be chasing the puck around. Definitely glad hes not going

 

[Lavar Ball]

 

[DTR]

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I love how at the end he casually checks one guy and it ends up locking up 2 players on the other team.

 

[Boxscore]

On a separate note, I'd love to see him wear 77 in Detroit instead of 3.

 

[saska sault]

Making his debut tomorrow, looking forward to see this kid. One of our potential corner stones going forward.

 

[Reddwit]

Making his debut tomorrow, looking forward to see this kid. One of our potential corner stones going forward.

If he gets close to his ceiling, Detroit’s defense is set for the next 10 years and you’ve potentially got the best LD/RD combo since Suter/Weber. But I think Detroit’s rebuild could survive Edvinsson only becoming a 3/4. What they can’t survive is Kasper being anything less than a top 6C.

 

[saska sault]

If he gets close to his ceiling, Detroit’s defense is set for the next 10 years and you’ve potentially got the best LD/RD combo since Suter/Weber. But I think Detroit’s rebuild could survive Edvinsson only becoming a 3/4. What they can’t survive is Kasper being anything less than a top 6C.

Wings still have the draft capital, cap flexibility and do have an abundance of prospects so making an off season trade isn't out of the question either.