Jacob Slavin top dman?

[Bizz]

This is Claude Giroux: best player in the world, part 2.

difference is Claude Giroux is actually good at hockey.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Bizz has been a vocal Slavin hater going back pre-pandemic. Why? IDK. The Brady Skjei superfan gimmick is more understandable by comparison.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

<Insert inane babble here>

...thanks for the input, Stevie...

 

[Tkachuk4MVP]

difference is Claude Giroux is actually good at hockey.

I meant the part where someone got crowned after four good games.

 

[BusQuets]

Is your argument that the difference between Slavin and Makar defensively is roughly equivalent to the difference between them offensively?

Which is to say, you really think Slavin brings more than 3 times as good of defense as Makar?

Slavin has 20 points. Makar has 63.

Hockey is way too complex for someone to say "one point = that much better". I guarantee you that no matter what the stats or advanced stats say all the coaches would rather have Slavin or Heiskanen on their roster in game 7 than Q. Hughes or Karlsson.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

Hockey is way too complex for someone to say "one point = that much better". I guarantee you that no matter what the stats or advanced stats say all the coaches would rather have Slavin or Heiskanen on their roster in game 7 than Q. Hughes or Karlsson.

This is a properly constructed straw man. Well struck!

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

Hockey is way too complex for someone to say "one point = that much better". I guarantee you that no matter what the stats or advanced stats say all the coaches would rather have Slavin or Heiskanen on their roster in game 7 than Q. Hughes or Karlsson.

 

[BusQuets]

This is a properly constructed straw man. Well struck!

It's just argument towards stats, especially for defensemen. I think Makar is the best defenseman in the league though.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Slavin isn't even the best Defenseman on his own team.

I assure you he most definitely is.

 

[Oddbob]

You can't discount the importance of the offensive guys who are still quite good defensively for the most part. Slavin is very good at defence, one of the best at just that, but his overall game is not the best.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Are we talking about the guy whose team has an expected goals % is 9.6% higher when he's OFF the ice?

Oh right, he had a nice 4 games in an all star tournament.

 

[Oneiro]

Strange that the tournament is his coming out party because it's, like, seven years too late?

But no, he is not better than Makar overall. Defensively, probably, but it doesn't matter when Makar does what he does elsewhere.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

Are we talking about the guy whose team has an expected goals % is 9.6% higher when he's OFF the ice?

Oh right, he had a nice 4 games in an all star tournament.

View attachment 980645

...again, fancy stats with no thought given to any variables like Quality of Competition, etc. that a DEFENSE FIRST guy faces...Slavin isn't some unknown; he's been a known defensive beast for years, hence why he was on the team...the BLIND in your name rings true, apparently...

 

[Reality Czech]

Best Defensive D in the league, but not more valuable than Makar or Hughes. Scoring goals is the absolute hardest thing to do in the NHL

It's definitely debatable. Finding a true #1 shut down D is probably harder than a top offensive guy and stopping a goal is technically just as valuable as scoring one.

Obviously in trade value they wouldn't trade Makar or Hughes for Slavin, but which one will help you win a Game 7 more?

I wish they would have a best defensive d-man award, but the players would have to vote on it. Hockey writers aren't qualified to make that call.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

Slavin is amazing.

No doubt about it and he's opened a lot of eyes with his performance at the Four Nations. A stud defenseman that can shut down anyone.

But that doesn't mean he's the best in the league. I would still take Makar and Hughes over him.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

...again, fancy stats with no thought given to any variables like Quality of Competition, etc. that a DEFENSE FIRST guy faces...Slavin isn't some unknown; he's been a known defensive beast for years, hence why he was on the team...the BLIND in your name rings true, apparently...

-9.6% is pretty staggering. I couldn't find quality of competition but I controlled for OZone starts.

I took Ozone starts as the x variable and Rel xG% as the y variable. The above are the forecast and actual. It's quite the gap. Unless he's defending Lemieux and Gretzky each shift it's not a great number. And yes I know who he is. But this thread is about him being the top D-man, it's not even close.

His most common partner Brent Burns is only -5.30%.

 

[Reality Czech]

Are we talking about the guy whose team has an expected goals % is 9.6% higher when he's OFF the ice?

Oh right, he had a nice 4 games in an all star tournament.

View attachment 980645

If your funny numbers claim Slavin is worse than those two guys, then you should question the value of that statistic.

 

[benr]

If I could build the perfect player it would be the defensive acumen of Quinn Hughes, combined with the offensive arsenal of slavin

 

[Brookbank]

Can Jacob Slavin make a case as the most overrated dman in the NHL? (since 4 Nations)

Fixed it for you.

He had a good tournament.

 

[DamonDRW]

when I see threads like this I wounder when NHL will get the next Niklas Lindstrom who was consistently top-5 offensive defenseman and top-5 defensive defenseman throughout his career.

 

[Caboose]

Man this is some crazy recency bias. Slavin is great, no doubt, but I can show you highlights of some 3rd pair D or 3rd line center "saving goals" the exact same way every game.

 

[Hennessy]

So you took a sensible premise - Slavin is good and stay-at-home Dmen can be underappreciated - and turned it into a complete troll-job.

I hope you're proud.

 

[iago]

Elite offense and top end skill is always more rare, and more valuable than elite defence. Always.

During the regular season, yes, elite offense sells many more tickets. But during playoffs or major tournament time, elite defense usually comes out on top.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

Obviously in trade value they wouldn't trade Makar or Hughes for Slavin, but which one will help you win a Game 7 more?

IDK man but one of them has a Conn Smythe

 

[Maliks PlusMinus]

Best out and out defenseman for the last few years, but never going to be as highly thought of as a guy with good D and amazing offense