RD Seth Jones (2013, 4th overall, Nashville) II
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Pronger is the only defenseman to win the Hart Trophy in the last 40 years, that is a generational accomplishment.
Obviously, the biggest issue with the "question" seems to be coming down to semantics and how people define generational. Is Nick Lidstrom a generational talent? I'm not sure that he is by some standards, because Nick, while as amazing as he (or Nieds or Pronger) was, he was NOT at all at the same level as Bobby Orr.
What I can simply say, again, is this: you would have to Pronger to find a clear-cut better defenseman than Jones *appears* to be developing into. I'm not talking about hype or draft position, I am talking about the fact that this guy has Pronger-like (i.e. perennial Norris contender who could contend for awards like Hart, Ted Lindsay and Conn Smythe trophies).
All the guys I mention as the elite of the elite young Dmen -- Letang, Subban, Doughty, Karlsson, OEL, Hedman, Larsson, Hamilton, Pietrangelo -- I would take Jones over any one of those guys. That's the best thing I can possibly say about this player. None of those guys were this good at age 18, and none of those guys were as good as Jones was when they each were 16. The upside on Jones is as high or higher than any of those guys, IMO.
What I can simply say, again, is this: you would have to Pronger to find a clear-cut better defenseman than Jones *appears* to be developing into. I'm not talking about hype or draft position, I am talking about the fact that this guy has Pronger-like (i.e. perennial Norris contender who could contend for awards like Hart, Ted Lindsay and Conn Smythe trophies).
All the guys I mention as the elite of the elite young Dmen -- Letang, Subban, Doughty, Karlsson, OEL, Hedman, Larsson, Hamilton, Pietrangelo -- I would take Jones over any one of those guys. That's the best thing I can possibly say about this player. None of those guys were this good at age 18, and none of those guys were as good as Jones was when they each were 16. The upside on Jones is as high or higher than any of those guys, IMO.
If he was, there wouldn't be a debate about who's going #1. Seth looks like he'll be an elite #1 d-men though, but generational talent, that's approaching Lidstrom territory. Don't think he'll be that dominating like Sid or Lid did/are.
You're making it sound like Jones is the next Lidstrom. Fact is, he still makes mistakes in the WHL level. Unless you're telling me you travel to the west coast and watch his games, I have no idea where you're pulling this information from besides the WJC.
He's good, but the overrating on Jones has become insane. I'd place money he'll be disappointing in the terms of Hedman and Larsson, people expect them to become instant #1 defenders in the NHL. I do expect him to become an elite #1, but not in his first few years.
capebretoncanadien
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- Nov 29, 2008
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Ok, so you think he'll be an elite #1, even if it takes him a few years. So you agree that he's good. I don't see what the discrepancy is. I never said he'll contend for the Norris as a rookie. None of the guys we have mentioned as comparables ever did either.
And regarding the first part of your post: so what, he makes some mistakes at the WHL level. I guess he can get in line with every single other draft-eligable defenseman ever in that regard. And let's not forget: he's still a rookie in that league, and it's a big adjustment for him. It's not like most draft-eligable players who player 2 or 3 years in the CHL before being draft, so what else would you expect?
Anyway, he's a hell of a talent, he's the complete package, and he's not done developing. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and people are welcome to disagree/have their own opinions. In my opinion, he is the best player at his age (and I don't just mean this year, I am including the last 2 years in which I have watched him play against his respective competition) that I have seen as a defenseman in many years.
AmericanDream
Thank you Elon!
I personally believe we will not see another generational talent from the defense position again. It is just too hard to stand out that much in todays game from the backend...and now being 6'4 215 isnt that huge of a deal anymore. Jones is super skilled and has a ton of potential, but generational talent from the blueline is something I just dont think we will see much of anymore.
If people dont think that any of Bourque, Coffey, Chelios, or Leetch were generational talents, then I highly doubt Jones will ever get to that level though I am damn well hoping he does.
Instead of talking about him being a generational talent, I am just praying he turns out better than Erik Johnson...small steps guys!
If people dont think that any of Bourque, Coffey, Chelios, or Leetch were generational talents, then I highly doubt Jones will ever get to that level though I am damn well hoping he does.
Instead of talking about him being a generational talent, I am just praying he turns out better than Erik Johnson...small steps guys!
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nomorekids
The original, baby
Just a point of correction--
among scouts at least, at this point, Jones is the concensus number one, and has been since about early January. Mackinnon isn't even number 2 on everyone's list...depending on who you're reading, it's a mix of Mackinnon, Drouin, Barkov, and even an occasional Nicushcin. The only people rating him at 2 are the mock drafters that can't fathom leaving an elite forward on the board in favor of a defenseman. AKA: Edmonton Oiler Syndrome
That said, "generational" is kind of overused here. Franchise? I think Jones can and will be that. I think he's the best defensive prospect to come into the league probably SINCE Bouwmeester(though Erik Johnson was close as well, and I think he could have been far more than he is now, if not for missing a year of development with that leg injury and also getting rushed in by a bad STL team).
among scouts at least, at this point, Jones is the concensus number one, and has been since about early January. Mackinnon isn't even number 2 on everyone's list...depending on who you're reading, it's a mix of Mackinnon, Drouin, Barkov, and even an occasional Nicushcin. The only people rating him at 2 are the mock drafters that can't fathom leaving an elite forward on the board in favor of a defenseman. AKA: Edmonton Oiler Syndrome
That said, "generational" is kind of overused here. Franchise? I think Jones can and will be that. I think he's the best defensive prospect to come into the league probably SINCE Bouwmeester(though Erik Johnson was close as well, and I think he could have been far more than he is now, if not for missing a year of development with that leg injury and also getting rushed in by a bad STL team).
JOELO1119
Registered User
I've watched 95% of the Winterhawks games this season. Jones is incredibly talented and incredibly SOFT. He doesn't play with an edge and it is very frustrating. He could dominate physically but he doesn't for some reason. He's going to have his lunch handed to him at the higher levels until he develops some toughness.
poetryinmotion
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Wheatking
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Off topic but that's an unfair criticism. Gudbranson over Hall or Seguin? Larsson over RNH, Landeskog or Huberdeau? Murray over Yakupov or Galchenyuk?
No offense to those three defensemen but they don't project to be as good as Jones. I think people exaggerate Murray's ceiling just to criticize the Oilers. You don't pass up a potential 40+ goal scorer for a guy like Hamhuis.
This time last season Yakupov was a guaranteed franchise player. A face the Blue Jackets could put on the front of their building. A guy that would make them not miss Rick Nash. Then the Oilers won the lottery and he's one of the weakest 1st overall picks of all time.Oh boy lol. Already becoming overrated
So let him be overrated because depending on who wins the lottery(or if another 2013 top 5 pick gets off to a better start in the NHL) he could quickly become very underrated.
WarriorofTime
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- Jul 3, 2010
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Anyone else find it amusing how some Canadians seem really butthurt that Jones has passed MacKinnon as the consensus #1 pick after they hyped up MacKinnon to be the next Crosby the last two years?
Hunter Gathers
The Crown
Generational? No. But he should be better than most of the top-of-the-draft defenseman over the past 10 years or so. He should end up being the best of them or one of the best, at least, as long as he pans out as planned. But that's hardly a generational talent, IMO. A hell of a prospect and defenseman? Sure.
I think Canadians will be fine when it is all said and done.
Wishing Portland and Halifax make it to the mem cup
the_speedster
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- Jul 7, 2007
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It's old hat to compare an up and comer to the greats of a game ("this kid reminds me of blah blah") NOt a big deal, and I certainly don't take it as some kind of personal affront or degradation of whatever player they're being compared to. However it is often better for those who HAVEN'T seen enough of said player to compare him to a more realistic (as of print) model.
For me Seth Jones' career ideal (if things worked out great? ) would be chris pronger. As of now he reminds me of pronger (when pronger was a junior). He seems alot more mature emotionaly than ol prongs (Who was a bit of a party animal back in the day). but for his skillset (skating, passing shooting, dominance over his peers... pronger was a tad meaner/physical)
The player he resembles closest TODAY tho? Victor hedman... meaning give jones a year in the nhl and he would be hedman's peer.
Crosby however? That's a bit like comparing denis savard to denis potvin
For me Seth Jones' career ideal (if things worked out great? ) would be chris pronger. As of now he reminds me of pronger (when pronger was a junior). He seems alot more mature emotionaly than ol prongs (Who was a bit of a party animal back in the day). but for his skillset (skating, passing shooting, dominance over his peers... pronger was a tad meaner/physical)
The player he resembles closest TODAY tho? Victor hedman... meaning give jones a year in the nhl and he would be hedman's peer.
Crosby however? That's a bit like comparing denis savard to denis potvin
Sundinisagod
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Great point, the only defenseman that would have fit the bill as a generational talent before playing in the NHL was Bobby Orr...and that's so long ago that they didn't even have a draft back then and I wonder if the term generational talent even existed then??? I guess for forwards some examples are Crosby, Ovechkin, Lindros, Sundin, Lemieux, Gretzky...
the_speedster
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shoot... they better be ready for drouin to pass of mckinnon... he's stepped it up to an insane level lately... Hearing about mckinnon I'd thought his ranking as number one was absolute.. then jones came up... and drouin got picked over mckinnon for the number one line at the world juniors... then you think of mckinnon's trajectory. Yes he mimicked crosby, but unknown to many, mckinnon didn't play for the shattuck st mary's PREP team (lie crosby ) at 15... instead he played for the MIDGET AAA one. His career in the CHL has certainly been great, but for those who remember actually watching crosby's first year in the CHL (he led the LEAGUE in scoring as a 16 yr old and was discussed as being ready for the nhl (least as a 4th liner level player) as a first year CHL'er. Mckinnon is certainly not in that league. I'm just hoping he doesn't follow the career of another wannabe crosby who had his ego unfortunately pumped by TSN and the hockey press, only to flounder awfully
Angelo Esposito
