RD Moritz Seider (2019, 6th, DET) Part 2

[EXTRAS]

In fairness, most Wings fans were thinking wtf when they made that pick. Yzerman is good but he's not error proof.

That's cuz most casual fans have limited knowledge and viewings of players, especially those playing in Europe, and even more so of those playing in slightly more obscure euro leagues.

 

[Ryan Michaels]

You literally liked a post of his where he said the only people saying he could be a #1D were Detroit fans, and are now saying he could turn into a #1D...

... He got dogpiled on because he was saying nobody sees Seider as having #1D potential, not because he criticized the Dahlin comparison. That and because he notoriously shits on Detroit prospects, evidenced on the last page.

I wouldn't say there was much evidence he was shitting on Detroit prospects, I agree he's undervaluing Seider but do you really think saying Raymond isn't Mitch Marner is "shitting on him", you guys need thicker skin if that's the case.

 

[snipes]

That's cuz most casual fans have limited knowledge and viewings of players, especially those playing in Europe, and even more so of those playing in slightly more obscure euro leagues.

It’s funny the two most laughed at picks in the top 10 were Seider and Broberg. Both big, excellent skating all situations D men.

Both looking like absolute home run hits for Yzerman and Holland.

 

[drw02]

That's cuz most casual fans have limited knowledge and viewings of players, especially those playing in Europe, and even more so of those playing in slightly more obscure euro leagues.

Sure, but most fans are just going by the national lists generated by the so called "experts" who didn't consider Seider worthy of a top 10 pick. What's their excuse?

 

[newfy]

I wouldn't say there was much evidence he was shitting on Detroit prospects, I agree he's undervaluing Seider but do you really think saying Raymond isn't Mitch Marner is "shitting on him", you guys need thicker skin if that's the case.

Lol thats not what he said. He said Raymond is nowhere close to the prospect that Marner was. Even if you want to say Marner was a better prospect at the itme of the draft, it wasnt some "Nowhere close, Marner is the best junior player ever" type situation. People confuse Marners draft year with his post draft season in the OHL. Marner was considered the third best prospect in the OHL alone in his draft year. Saying Raymond is not even remotely close talent wise is a joke, especially considering how dominant he has been playing up age groups internationally at best on best tournaments.

But I dont even think thats the only part. Saying Veleno beat up on guys in his 5th Q season and that all he could be is a 3/4th line center is kinda bullshit right now as well. Even for the simple fact he doesnt know enough about him to know it was only his 4th season in the Q. We're not even going to say Veleno has a chance to be a second line center? Really?

Saying Zadina and especially Seider arent elite comes across as shitting on them to me. And thats the only posts that could be found quickly, this guy does it all the time. This site voted 3 Detroit prospects in the top 11, but none of them are elite prospects at all? And then he points out a bunch of lists/writers who agree with him only to be proven wrong lol

How can you read that post and come out of it thinking all he said was "Raymond isnt Mitch Marner"? Like did you even read it?

 

[780il]

I’m happy with the Oilers pick of Broberg, he has a lot of upside and has shown promise.

But holy shit the wings did well here. Seider is a f***ing beast. Guy plays like Drew Doughty it’s insane.

 

[NJ Fan 12]

Seider question

Will he be coming over once the season starts?

I thought the SHL was refraining from allowing loaned players to play and that those players could only play Allsvenskan?

 

[lakai17]

I’m happy with the Oilers pick of Broberg, he has a lot of upside and has shown promise.

But holy shit the wings did well here. Seider is a f***ing beast. Guy plays like Drew Doughty it’s insane.

Both solid selections.

 

[TCNorthstars]

Seider question

Will he be coming over once the season starts?

I thought the SHL was refraining from allowing loaned players to play and that those players could only play Allsvenskan?

He will be in the SHL until his teams season is over.

 

[Pavels Dog]

1 assist, +1, 18:38 played in a 2-0 win. Stays at point per game.

 

[hockeeyyy]

... that's exactly what I said. "I would not put Seider in Dahlin's tier" is my way of saying I would not rank Seider on the same level as Dahlin. That's the overall package of the player. There's generational, and there's a tier below that. Dahlin's in one, Seider the other.


So, let me know which part of my post was overhyping? It's funny how there's never any actual counterarguments? So you don't think he's special defensively for his age? Or is it that watching him actual play is what creates too much hype? Because that I can kinda see..

Leafs fans called Schenn a generational defensive defenseman too. So did multiple analysts. He showed flashes, but he was never able to put it together -- he bulked up way too much over the summer after his rookie season and he wasn't able to shed it off fast enough to catch up to the rest of the league.

Point is: There were glimpses of Schenn's defensive upside, and he never reached it. It would probably be better to err on the side of caution.

 

[NotLeddy]

Leafs fans called Schenn a generational defensive defenseman too. So did multiple analysts. He showed flashes, but he was never able to put it together -- he bulked up way too much over the summer after his rookie season and he wasn't able to shed it off fast enough to catch up to the rest of the league.

Point is: There were glimpses of Schenn's defensive upside, and he never reached it. It would probably be better to err on the side of caution.

I don't see how Schenn and Seider are comparible, as these things are being said about Seider while playing big minutes against grown men in the AHL and the SHL, whereas Schenn only played in the WHL and World Juniors before playing in the NHL.

Schenn not being eligible for the AHL in his d+1 season and playing in the NHL as an 18 year old probably wasn't the ideal way for him to develop, and if he was an European prospect like Seider, he probably could've developed differently and ended up a very different NHL player.

In general, fans should be wary about overrating and overvaluing prospects, because yes, many of them don't turn out. But Seider and Schenn were two very different prospects with different resumes/career paths, and it's an odd comparison.

 

[newfy]

Leafs fans called Schenn a generational defensive defenseman too. So did multiple analysts. He showed flashes, but he was never able to put it together -- he bulked up way too much over the summer after his rookie season and he wasn't able to shed it off fast enough to catch up to the rest of the league.

Point is: There were glimpses of Schenn's defensive upside, and he never reached it. It would probably be better to err on the side of caution.

Schenn was just unlucky that when he came up the game was changing drastically. If he was 10 years older he woulda been a stud NHL dman but he couldnt skate enough for where the league was going. Seider doesnt have that issue whatsoever and is a better prospect than Schenn because of it

 

[Pavels Dog]

Leafs fans called Schenn a generational defensive defenseman too. So did multiple analysts. He showed flashes, but he was never able to put it together -- he bulked up way too much over the summer after his rookie season and he wasn't able to shed it off fast enough to catch up to the rest of the league.

Point is: There were glimpses of Schenn's defensive upside, and he never reached it. It would probably be better to err on the side of caution.

But it's so boring to err on the side of caution.

Tbh with the way the Wings have struggled to develop d-men in the last 15 years it takes a lot for me to not err on the side of caution. But Seider is worth sticking your neck out for. At least when it comes to the defensive game.

 

[wetcoast]

Man with Seider, Raymond and Zadina all coming up the Red wings look lie they will turn it around in several seasons.

Also young dman Filip Hronek is starting to look like an excellent top 4 Dman for years to come.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

But it's so boring to err on the side of caution.

Tbh with the way the Wings have struggled to develop d-men in the last 15 years it takes a lot for me to not err on the side of caution. But Seider is worth sticking your neck out for. At least when it comes to the defensive game.

Hey we had... Uhh... Kronwall.

Between Kronwall and Hronek our drafting and development of defenders was about as bad as Pittsburgh's with forwards. Probably worse.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Man with Seider, Raymond and Zadina all coming up the Red wings look lie they will turn it around in several seasons.

Also young dman Filip Hronek is starting to look like an excellent top 4 Dman for years to come.

Cholowski looks like he could top out as a decent second pairing defenceman as well.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Cholowski looks like he could top out as a decent second pairing defenceman as well.

Cholo was an abortion last season. Appears to have nothing between his ears when it comes to actually playing defense.

Of course, he's young enough that that could always change.

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

Cholo was an abortion last season. Appears to have nothing between his ears when it comes to actually playing defense.

Of course, he's young enough that that could always change.

I think Cholowski develops into a John Merrill type.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Leafs fans called Schenn a generational defensive defenseman too. So did multiple analysts. He showed flashes, but he was never able to put it together -- he bulked up way too much over the summer after his rookie season and he wasn't able to shed it off fast enough to catch up to the rest of the league.

Point is: There were glimpses of Schenn's defensive upside, and he never reached it. It would probably be better to err on the side of caution.

Schenn was the kind of defensive defenseman in the same vein as Darius Kasparitis, Mattias Norstrom, and guys like that. He never had an offensive game, his passing was average at best and so was his skating. He was just a physically big kid that physically dominated other kids in junior. Seider was playing as a defensive defenseman as a 17 year old in a men's league. He was flat out the best all around defenseman at the WJC20, the best two-way defenseman for Grand Rapids, and is dominating possession and tilting the ice for his team in the SHL. There was never any indication that Schenn could ever do that.

Part of the problem was rushed development for Schenn, and the other part of it is that Seider is just better at the hockey stuff.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I think Cholowski develops into a John Merrill type.

John Merrill is actually good defensively. Cholowski is f***ing awful in his own zone and is afraid of contact. My bet is he develops into a bust who goes to play in Europe for a few years before retiring.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

I think Cholowski develops into a John Merrill type.

My understanding of Merrill is that he's all defense and no offense, which is pretty much the exact opposite of Cholowski.

... I think at this rate, we'd be lucky if Cholowski is Brendan Smith.

 

[TCNorthstars]

Cholowski looks like he could top out as a decent second pairing defenceman as well.

In the AHL.

 

[wetcoast]

Cholowski looks like he could top out as a decent second pairing defenceman as well.

sure I thought about him, but it seems like the other 4 guys will have huge impacts and be part od the new Detroit core.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Cholowski looks like he could top out as a decent second pairing defenceman as well.

Currently I think Albert Johansson is a better bet for that, Cholowski isn't a total writeoff just yet but needs to show significant improvement real soon.