RD Moritz Seider (2019, 6th, DET) Part 2

[MBH]

Disagree, we didn't see vladdy over here til he was a fair amount older and seider is only 19 and improving massively every year. For a 19 year old defense first player to be at a ppg in the shl its impressive to say the least.

You really have no idea how good Konstantinov was.
So it's understandable you'd disagree.

This is a guy who could skate, bob, weave, saucer pass, and deke as part of the Russian 5 - while hitting as hard as guys 3-4 inches taller and 30 pounds heavier.

I can see Pronger. I can see Blake. I can see Ohlund. I can see some resemblances to Hedman. I guess I can understand Jovanovski.
It boggles the mind that anyone compares him to Konstantinov.

 

[lucaseider]

You really have no idea how good Konstantinov was.
So it's understandable you'd disagree.

This is a guy who could skate, bob, weave, saucer pass, and deke as part of the Russian 5 - while hitting as hard as guys 3-4 inches taller and 30 pounds heavier.

I can see Pronger. I can see Blake. I can see Ohlund. I can see some resemblances to Hedman. I guess I can understand Jovanovski.
It boggles the mind that anyone compares him to Konstantinov.

yes yes, I know from everything you post on the wings board your the only one who really knows anything. I have been a wings fan since the 80's, so, yes I do think I know how good he was. Your trying to act like he was an offensive dynamo and he quite simply wasn't. But keep going with your delusions that your right about everything.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Watching Rögle games, even though he had a nice point streak there that just ended, his offensive forays were not as impressive or noteworthy than his defensive acumen though. before we go overboard with his PPG. I wont be surprised if his points dry up later on, I will be very surprised if his defensive game drops off though.

It's not really offensive rushes that is his bread and butter for point production, it's just consistently being involved and making good passes and generally tilting the ice towards offense. Sure, things could dry up, but generally this is a rather sustainable type of production since it's based on a high icetime, consistency in all 3 zones and doing things that are repeatable.
I think he needs to start shooting a bit more if he wants to really keep producing, but overall the point totals are probably low in terms of looking at his overall impact and how much offense he's actually been involved in creating.

 

[GoBoltz56]

It's not really offensive rushes that is his bread and butter for point production, it's just consistently being involved and making good passes and generally tilting the ice towards offense. Sure, things could dry up, but generally this is a rather sustainable type of production since it's based on a high icetime, consistency in all 3 zones and doing things that are repeatable.
I think he needs to start shooting a bit more if he wants to really keep producing, but overall the point totals are probably low in terms of looking at his overall impact and how much offense he's actually been involved in creating.

I agree that D is his bread and butter...but he does that too, though...

 

[MBH]

yes yes, I know from everything you post on the wings board your the only one who really knows anything. I have been a wings fan since the 80's, so, yes I do think I know how good he was. Your trying to act like he was an offensive dynamo and he quite simply wasn't. But keep going with your delusions that your right about everything.

Hah. Delusions? Thinking Seider and Konstantinov are similar is an example of a delusion.
Watch number 16 in this video:

Does that look anything like what you see Seider doing?

Sounds to me like people who never really watched Konstantinov... but saw the hitting highlights and didn't see massive point totals.

Wings looking for ex-wings to compare him to ought to try Jiri Fischer with better hockey sense.

 

[Preposterone]

2

 

[Preposterone]

Vladdy was a 30-35 pt pace player getting regular time on the 2nd powerplay of stacked rosters in the mid 90s(still not low scoring). He wasnt that good offensively. And yeah, the plays in that vlad clip package are pretty much exactly how seider generates zone entries and controls the point in Rogle

 

[MichaelFarrell]

I honestly doesn’t matter how many points Seider puts up in the NHL because a lot of it is going to be him generating offense from defense. His point totals will also depend a lot on the offensive in front of him I think. He’s a physical, quick, puck-moving D but I don’t see him as like one of the best power play quarterbacks or him jumping into the rush like Erik Karlsson.

I think he’ll be a consistent 40-45 point guy while also being invaluable to his team.

 

[newfy]

Hah. Delusions? Thinking Seider and Konstantinov are similar is an example of a delusion.
Watch number 16 in this video:

Does that look anything like what you see Seider doing?

Sounds to me like people who never really watched Konstantinov... but saw the hitting highlights and didn't see massive point totals.

Wings looking for ex-wings to compare him to ought to try Jiri Fischer with better hockey sense.

Lol how do you watch that video and see a bunch of stuff Seider wont be able to do? I see Konstantinov jumping into the play onceand putting the puck in the net, and some nice tic tac toe plays/a few pretty nice passes but that video looks great because of Fedorov and Larionov shredding defenses with their passing.

Konstantinov was one of the best dmen in the NHL but it wasnt because of his highlight reel passing plays/vision. Stick Seider with 4 other players as skilled as the other Russian 5 players and he can make literally every single play in that highlight reel you posted.

I'm a big wings fan but you have Vladdie on way too high of a pedestal. Was it you earlier in the thread that said he was better than Pronger?

 

[MBH]

Lol how do you watch that video and see a bunch of stuff Seider wont be able to do? I see Konstantinov jumping into the play onceand putting the puck in the net, and some nice tic tac toe plays/a few pretty nice passes but that video looks great because of Fedorov and Larionov shredding defenses with their passing.

Konstantinov was one of the best dmen in the NHL but it wasnt because of his highlight reel passing plays/vision. Stick Seider with 4 other players as skilled as the other Russian 5 players and he can make literally every single play in that highlight reel you posted.

I'm a big wings fan but you have Vladdie on way too high of a pedestal. Was it you earlier in the thread that said he was better than Pronger?

Stick Seider with the Russian 4 and he'd be f***ing dizzy.

No. I didn't say Konstantinov was better than Pronger. But when they were in the league together, he was.
Just like Konstantinov was better than Lidstrom and Coffey.

Here's who finished ahead of Konstantinov in Norris voting his final two years.
Leetch.
Bourque.
Chelios.

Too high a pedestal...

You simply don't know how good Konstantinov was. You weren't around to watch it, or you didn't know what you were watching. Or you have no idea what kind of player Seider is.

But other than hard hits, there are few similarities in their game.

 

[MBH]

Vladdy was a 30-35 pt pace player getting regular time on the 2nd powerplay of stacked rosters in the mid 90s(still not low scoring). He wasnt that good offensively. And yeah, the plays in that vlad clip package are pretty much exactly how seider generates zone entries and controls the point in Rogle

Konstantinov, despite often being deployed in a defensive role, between 91-92 and 96-97. Even strength.
446 games 38-107-145. +185.
Lidstrom during the same time, at even strength.
451 games 34-113-147 +141.

Konstantinov was trained to play a certain style of hockey - one that doesn't really resemble the game Seider plays. Konstantinov probably has more in common with one of the modern puck rushing youngsters like Makar than Seider.

Offensively, Konstantinov has more in common with a prospect like Albert Johansson than Seider.

 

[EXTRAS]

MBH putting that p*§$! on a pedestal lmao

 

[Preposterone]

Konstantinov, despite often being deployed in a defensive role, between 91-92 and 96-97. Even strength.
446 games 38-107-145. +185.
Lidstrom during the same time, at even strength.
451 games 34-113-147 +141.

Seider is outproducing at Johansson at the same age, in the same league, by a lot. Have you even watched Seider? he rushes the puck all the time

also, in the same timeframe:

Lidstrom: 307 total points
Konstaninov: 196 total points

PP points matter, and Konstantinov got regular PP time with good players.

 

[MBH]

Seider is outproducing at Johansson at the same age, in the same league, by a lot. Have you even watched Seider? he rushes the puck all the time

also, in the same timeframe:

Lidstrom: 307 total points
Konstaninov: 196 total points

PP points matter, and Konstantinov got regular PP time with good players.

Right. Lidstrom had the shot for it.
And Coffey was there for a lot of it, and played a lot of the PP minutes.
Oh, and Fedorov also played a lot of point minutes on the PP.

I'm not saying Johansson is better than Seider.
But Seider does not play Konstantinov's style of game. Konstantinov was basically a rover out there.

Someone here decided Konstantinov was a stay-at-home, defensive defenseman because he didn't score 30 powerplay points a season.
And therefore, they've decided to compare a 5'11 defenseman to a 6'5 defenseman.

It's not a good comparison. There are plenty of better ones in this thread.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Someone here decided Konstantinov was a stay-at-home, defensive defenseman because he didn't score 30 powerplay points a season.
And therefore, they've decided to compare a 5'11 defenseman to a 6'5 defenseman.

Tbh it seems more like you have decided that Seider is only a stay-at-home physical D. When in fact he does a lot of things offensily, rushes the puck etc.
I see no point in comparing Seider to Vladdy but there are many worse comparisons thrown around.

 

[deca guard]

you watch seider and he doesnt have the quick acceleration and dekes of smaller guys so your thinking hes not a puck carrier / offense generator then he uses his very high hockey iq , powerful athletic skating and good hands to think , weave , power his way up ice to then make a good pass . imo his hands get stronger a few more years into adulthood which improves his wrister , with more power on that shot which is already accurate he might become a pp qb .

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Stick Seider with the Russian 4 and he'd be f***ing dizzy.

No. I didn't say Konstantinov was better than Pronger. But when they were in the league together, he was.
Just like Konstantinov was better than Lidstrom and Coffey.

Here's who finished ahead of Konstantinov in Norris voting his final two years.
Leetch.
Bourque.
Chelios.

Too high a pedestal...

You simply don't know how good Konstantinov was. You weren't around to watch it, or you didn't know what you were watching. Or you have no idea what kind of player Seider is.

But other than hard hits, there are few similarities in their game.

Not according to Yzerman, Bowman or any of his teammates at the time. The had different roles on the team, Lidstrom still took the biggest matchups, remember who downed the Legion of Doom during this time period.

He did play on the most dominating 5 man unit that most of the NHL had no idea how to defend. That helped his +/- for sure as the Russian 5 were a machine at the time. But keep in mind that means for most of the time period you're talking about in particular his last two years you highlighted he is playing with a guy that is probably a top 10 all-time guy in terms of just pure peak in Fedorov. Who was insanely dominant during that stretch.

I don't totally agree with Konstantinov as a comparison either. Seider has the million watt smile and crushes interviews with fun and enjoys demolishing opponents. Those were Vladdy's hallmarks. He wasn't just a great hockey player, he was the life of the room he was in. So tragic what happened. But I think that is the driving factor of this comparison. With Seider you have the mountain of a man. If I was to pick it he is more somewhere between a Rob Blake/Stevens type probably. A bigger punishing man that skates incredibly well and has serious hockey IQ in terms of timing while taking the plays given to him, but has a lot of physical/athletic prowess.I don't think he has Blake's offensive upside and probably not Stevens ultimate defense but he dips probably into both areas.

Now we are basically naming HHOF talents, he has long ways to go there. He will have to develop more in particular his shot is not enough right now. But he should fill out to a really imposing man in the next few years. I am excited to see it, my hope is eventually in 10 years we are describing the next rangy athlete that loves the rough stuff and has offense in his game as the next Mo Seider...

 

[MBH]

Not according to Yzerman, Bowman or any of his teammates at the time. The had different roles on the team, Lidstrom still took the biggest matchups, remember who downed the Legion of Doom during this time period.

He did play on the most dominating 5 man unit that most of the NHL had no idea how to defend. That helped his +/- for sure as the Russian 5 were a machine at the time. But keep in mind that mean for most of the time period you're talking about in particular his last two years you highlighted he is playing with a guy that is probably a top 10 all-time guy in terms of just pure peak in Fedorov. Who was insanely dominant during that stretch.

I don't totally agree with Konstantinov as a comparison either. Seider has the million watt smile and crushes interviews with fun and enjoys demolishing opponents. Those were Vladdy's hallmarks. He wasn't just a great hockey player, he was the life of the room he was in. So tragic what happened. But I think that is the driving factor of this comparison. With Seider you have the mountain of a man. If I was to pick it he is more somewhere between a Rob Blake/Stevens type probably. A bigger punishing man that skates incredibly well and has serious hockey IQ in terms of timing while taking the plays given to him, but has a lot of physical/athletic prowess.I don't think he has Blake's offensive upside and probably not Stevens ultimate defense but he dips probably into both areas.

Now we are basically naming HHOF talents, he has long ways to go there. He will have to develop more in particular his shot is not enough right now. But he should fill out to a really imposing man in the next few years. I am excited to see it, my hope is eventually in 10 years we are describing the next rangy athlete that loves the rough stuff and has offense in his game as the next Mo Seider...

In my view, Konstantinov was the best 5 on 5 defenseman in the NHL
Granted - he was at his peak - and Lidstrom was just entering his all-around prime (oo-01-02-03).

The point is, Seider/Konstantinov are not comparable players.
I don't care about million-watt smiles or Vladdie's mischievous grin.
Stylistically, they are not the same similar in any way.

I wonder what people think of a Rod Langway comparison.
Langway moved well for a big guy. He had some offensive ability and could put up 20-35 even-strength points.
It's another Hall of Famer - and I don't want to create too much hype for the kid - but stylistically.

 

[MBH]

Tbh it seems more like you have decided that Seider is only a stay-at-home physical D. When in fact he does a lot of things offensily, rushes the puck etc.
I see no point in comparing Seider to Vladdy but there are many worse comparisons thrown around.

Not in this thread. Not yet.

 

[clay]

This pick had its share of haters because it looked like a reach at the time but it looks like Yzerman and co. hit it out of the park.

 

[NitroF]

I don’t know why but I keep coming back to Buffalo Bills’ QB Josh Allen in my mind when I think about Seider. The big but boyish man with expectations rising following some draft controversy. Big smile and lovely personality, but fearless play style that keeps proving doubters wrong.

Hope he follows the same developing trajectory!

 

[seadawg]

Not in this thread. Not yet.

I don’t know why but I keep coming back to Buffalo Bills’ QB Josh Allen in my mind when I think about Seider. The big but boyish man with expectations rising following some draft controversy. Big smile and lovely personality, but fearless play style that keeps proving doubters wrong.

Hope he follows the same developing trajectory!

There we go...we finally got a comparison to Seider that's worse than Konstantinov...I mean, Josh Allen is a horrible skater!

 

[NitroF]

@seadawg Hell of a passer though and he can QB more than just the PP! ;-)

 

[TheMule93]

 

[The Zermanator]

He's just a force on the ice. Can't wait to see him in a Wings sweater.