It still remains to be seen what he will do in the NHL ... I think he lacks any one elite skill to truly be an elite defenseman.
RD Moritz Seider (2019, 6th, DET) Part 2
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It still remains to be seen what he will do in the NHL ... I think he lacks any one elite skill to truly be an elite defenseman.
golffuul
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- Oct 24, 2011
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Every 19 year old defenceman looks like they lack an elite skill. Even Nick Lidstrom looked like he lacked elite skill, aside from his ability to think the game, and even then that didn't really show up until he had a number of years in the NHL, under his belt.
Pavels Dog
Registered User
He already looks elite physically.. as an 18-19 year old playing against men. Defensively he's elite or close to it at the levels he's played (AHL, SHL, WJC) and has that potential in the NHL as well.
OgeeOgelthorpe
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Then I think you need to watch more of his games. He's not going to dangle like a star forward and his skating is excellent, but it's not prime Erik Karlsson elite. That isn't to say he doesn't have any elite aspects to his game.
These are the traits of his game that I consider elite.
Physicality: Elite. An absolutely dominant physical force. He was 18 years old throwing grown men around in the AHL. He's 19 and throwing grown men around in the SHL. When he's 20 he's going to throw around grown men in the NHL. And what's better is he's already great at picking his spots. He's not going out of position to make the big hit.
Passing: His stretch passes are top notch. He's able to hit his target in stride with incredible accuracy. I'd love for Will Scouching to do an updated report to track his pass completion percentage.
Defensive acumen/IQ: The guy reads the defensive side of the ice so well and it's why he's able to control the pace of the game when he's on. The reason why he's got such a good corsi and fenwick is because he's great at breaking up offensive possession and leading a structured breakout after stopping an opponent's play dead in his tracks..
Things he can work on: His shot, for sure. That's about the only thing that I'd rate as average to above average. Pretty good seeing eye wrist shot from the point. He's able to get it low on net to cause rebounds. I'd like to see him work on his slapshot technique, though.
His offensive game: This is in part because his shot needs improvement and I believe it'll have a cascading effect on his overall game. Seider is showing a lot more offensive ability in Rogle than expected. In the beginning of the season Seider was the defensive anchor of his pair and that allowed his partner to take more chances. Over the last 6 or so games he's gambled a bit more while his defensive partner has been playing the more defensive role and Seider is improving when to pick his spots.
SuperScript29
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- Nov 17, 2017
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Applies for every single prospect that hasn't touched NHL ice. Thanks for the enlightened input.
WingsMJN2965
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I understand what you are saying, in that "elite" dmen usually equates to offensive production. I'm still unsure if Seider will be an offensive juggernaut. And sadly, if he isn't capable of putting up 50+ pts, he will probably never get Norris consideration. That said, I have absolutely no doubt that Seider will be an elite shutdown defenseman who can play 25+ minutes and make life miserable for the opposition. His physicality, defensive-positioning, active stick, long reach, and exceptional skating (especially for a big man) will guarantee that. He will no doubt be a top pairing defenseman and a centre-piece dman, at least comparable to someone like Parayko or Ekblad. Whether or not he has the potential to put up elite offensive numbers remains to be seen. Regardless of that, though, he will be an awesome player and someone every NHL team will covet.
I think he has a chance to become the most dominant physical defensive defenseman in the league. That title encompasses a variety of elite skills.
The Zetterberg Era
Ball Hockey Sucks
Lidstrom has one of the best rookie seasons by a D-man in the history of the NHL. Really probably only Leetch (Orr and Potvin also I would think have cases but in terms of guys post 80s) has a better offensive season when you adjust for the particular seasons across eras. Yes, he would evolve into the 2nd best D-man of all-time. It took the media a while to start voting for him for the Norris, he was the best D-man in the league by his 3rd or 4th season when you listen to Bowman and Yzerman on the subject. One of the worst assessments continuously put forward on Lidstrom is that he slowly evolved into that player, his peak was ridiculous, he was a top 10 D-man in the league in probably all but 2 seasons in his 20 year career and for half of it despite the 7 Norris count, I would argue he was the actual best. As someone that watched every single game of his career, others can argue it but I will never put down anything Lidstrom did, best D-man I have seen in person in my life.
I do think Seider has room for growth as all these players do. He brings elite elements to the table, I am excited to see him after the SHL season concludes in Detroit. I think other fan-bases that haven't seen him enough are going to learn a lot in a hurry about what he is about and how talented he is. Hasn't done a thing wrong since we picked him thus far, couldn't be happier.
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deca guard
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- Jun 22, 2019
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become a huge pet peeve of mine that offensively talented but small unphysical dmen are constantly raved about while bigger rugged dmen arent getting respected for the physical and d zone work theyre doing that a hughes type cant do . and the medias a big part of the problem as they dont respect them either , its all about highlites and points . but ignore the rugged guys bodying opponants , clearing net front , bull dozing the boards clean in their end , blocking shots , feeding rats lumber . ide love to see tsn create a say 4 man panel of ex nhl dmen doing a 30 minute show each week focusing on the work of these guys . top canidate for this panel being kenny daneko . maybe have a goalie on the panel too because theyll say i love my hughes but i really need my mcdonah . not saying mcdonahs thee comparison for seider , just that guys like mcdonah dont get the respect they derserve from fans or press . and thats whats kinda happening with seider as his level of defensive play and physical dominance while also being able to to a very solid job helping the attack should be setting off alarms in fans minds that this guys all around value to a team as a 19 year old in shl is very elite level stuff , and that hes a top elite prospect even without being an elite offensive force and has #1 nhl dman written all over him
WingsMJN2965
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Agent Zuuuub
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i dont know what league youre watching but any big physical d-man who can skate and make passes are raved to the moon. as they should be.
Another quality of his that goes along with the ones you mention but often gets omitted, because it is a less visible skill, is his ability and willingness to learn and improve. It is so rare for him to make the same mistake twice. Every coach he has ever had has stated that he is very coachable and just absorbs everything like a sponge. So it is difficult for me to see him not improving further in pretty much every aspect of the game.
I think we ain't seen nothing yet; Seider is only going to get better, especially once he plays at the next level. Every time he "moved up" to a higher level of competition he adapted quickly and improved visibly within only a few games. I really hope the Wings will be able to sign an experienced d-man, even if he is past his prime. Somebody who has played at a high level and can still contribute. He doesn't even have to play on the same pairing, just someone for Seider to be around and to learn from.
deca guard
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Shultzyfeelinirie25
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those toe drags in the begining wow and he just flys out there what a gem
SimonEdvinssonAtSix
It's possible to commit no mistakes and still lose
- Nov 2, 2018
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Listen buddy, Seider has zero offensive talent or haven't you heard. He can hit people and that's it. So keep your toe drags outta this and comment only on the bodies laying on the ice. Thanks.
Those highlights definitely showed that he has nice hands. Some excellent passing and puck control on display in that video package.
He only took one shot on net, and unfortunately it wasn't a very good shot, and that often seems to be the case when I see him take shots on net. He doesn't take a lot of shots to begin with, and when he does take a shot it usually isn't very strong (and his low goal totals support that). If he can't score goals, or at least be a threat to score goals, he will have limited offensive potential at the NHL level. Seider is very good at playing the point on the power play by holding the line and distributing the puck; and not so much as a shot-maker. If teams aren't worried about him scoring from the point, they can start to play him as a pass-only option and that will limit is effectiveness, especially at the NHL level.
Maybe that is a part of the game he can develop, but I wonder to what degree he can improve in that area. He's a really big guy, so I would have expected him to have more power on his shot. Maybe it's a question of mechanics and someone can work with him to improve his shot. I don't really know much about these things. I hope it is an area he can improve on. If he becomes a threat from the point, I see no reason why he can't run the power play for Detroit and become an elite offensive dman.
Let me simplify this actually ... Every elite defensemen in the modern NHL is an elite skater and he is not
SimonEdvinssonAtSix
It's possible to commit no mistakes and still lose
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Seider is not from the modern NHL school he plays a more old school style. With absolutely fantastic skating ability at 6'4. Some of you are gonna have to start thinking about excuses now to prepare for why you thought this way, because in a few years Seider will prove the haters wrong.
Hostile Offer
Artist formerly known as Eagle Peninsula
Depends on where you draw the line on "elite". Yes, you need to be a good skater to be an elite defenseman but you don't need to be an Erik Karlsson or Quinn Hughes to be an elite defenseman. Seider has more than fine enough skating to become a modern elite shutdown guy in the league.
OgeeOgelthorpe
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EVERY elite defenseman is an elite level skater?
Guy, I think you're reaching at this point.
Most players have some sort of weakness to their game, and Seider is no different. However, I think skating is actually one of his best assets, especially for a player of his size. There are very few 6'4"+ players who can skate better than Seider. If you look at someone like Pronger or Chara, neither of them could skate as well as Seider, but they were definitely elite dmen.
I've made my opinion clear on Seider with my most recent comments on him. I think he will be "elite" in the general sense. Whether or not he can improve on his shooting and become an elite offensive player remains to be seen. IMO, that is about the only thing at this point holding him back from becoming a 50+ pt dman at the NHL level and, in turn, a viable Norris trophy winner.
What the hell? Skating is probably Seiders biggest asset outside of his physicality
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