RD Moritz Seider (2019, 6th, DET) Part 2

[seadawg]

saying there's no chance at all....by naming a guy that won the Calder?

Red Wings don't win the Calder anyways nobody since 1965

Yzerman,Fedorov,Lidstrom,Zetterberg,Howard have all finished 2nd

Well, my comments were meant to be sarcastic in that the likelihood is extremely small, if he doesn't put up decent offensive numbers. It is unfortunate, as I said in my comments, but dmen rarely win awards without scoring points.

TBH, I don't know how many points Seider will put up. Maybe he will surprise us all and score plenty of points in his rookie season. If we are hoping he is the first dman to win the Calder without scoring lots of points, since Barret Jackman, then it likely isn't happening.

 

[Stony Curtis]

saying there's no chance at all....by naming a guy that won the Calder?

Red Wings don't win the Calder anyways nobody since 1965

Yzerman,Fedorov,Lidstrom,Zetterberg,Howard have all finished 2nd

The Curse of Roger Crozier strikes again!!

 

[GettingYourMoms]

Didn’t we just see two guys (Hughes and Makar) get over 50 points in less than 70 games?

Seider will be far more valuable than Hughes or Makar.

 

[Tralfamadore]

Seider will be far more valuable than Hughes or Makar.

Huh?

 

[Tralfamadore]

I see Seider as completely different than all of the names you mentioned. He's leaps and bounds better defensively than Dahlin and Hughes who I think need to work quite a bit in those areas. Seider doesn't have the same dynamism offensively as Hughes, Makar or Dahlin, though. He's been joining the rush a lot more in Rogle lately as he's gotten more comfortable, so that's good to see.

I think the other 3 will outproduce him in most years but I think he's going to have a similar effect in tilting the ice like they do. His impact will be in transitioning the puck out of the defensive zone safely and helping to maintain offensive zone possession through strong positioning and stopping clearing attempts by the other team.

And this is based on his 0 NHL games played? Hughes and Dahlin would have DESTROYED the AHL if they had played there last year.

 

[Preposterone]

And this is based on his 0 NHL games played? Hughes and Dahlin would have DESTROYED the AHL if they had played there last year.

I'm definitely not of the opinion that Seider is more valuable than hughes, Dahlin or makar, but Hughes and Makar were still playing in college at this point in their careers.

 

[Fatass]

Seider will be far more valuable than Hughes or Makar.

To the Wings, perhaps. Their team doesn’t have any other high end players, and Vancouver and Colorado do, so I can understand that perspective.

 

[SimonEdvinssonAtSix]

To the Wings, perhaps. Their team doesn’t have any other high end players, and Vancouver and Colorado do, so I can understand that perspective.

It's gonna be fun to watch people act surprised when Seider is dominating the NHL in a year or two.

 

[GettingYourMoms]

To the Wings, perhaps. Their team doesn’t have any other high end players, and Vancouver and Colorado do, so I can understand that perspective.

But you have only Petersson and Hughes as high end players. We have Seider, Raymond and Zadina.

 

[Fatass]

It's gonna be fun to watch people act surprised when Seider is dominating the NHL in a year or two.

I posted earlier the notion Seider was going to be a Calder finalist, because he would put up offensive numbers similar to Hughes and Makar. Others pointed out Hughes and Makar greatly benefited from the elite talent on their teams, and Seider doesn’t have that advantage.
Which players on Detroit would be considered elite, and would help Seider get to the point totals like the elite guys on Vancouver and Colorado did for Hughes and Makar?

 

[Preposterone]

But you have only Petersson and Hughes as high end players. We have Seider, Raymond and Zadina.

At this point, those are still all high end prospects

 

[Tralfamadore]

But you have only Petersson and Hughes as high end players. We have Seider, Raymond and Zadina.

You need to stop.

 

[Fatass]

But you have only Petersson and Hughes as high end players. We have Seider, Raymond and Zadina.

Are you saying Hughes’ rookie season was better than Makar’s because he only had one high end player helping him, and Makar had several?

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

This thread has taken a rough turn, between people saying Makar/Hughes mostly got their point totals from playing with good players and now this stuff.

More videos of Seider bullying people and looking like a future all star and less Makar/Hughes slag, please.

 

[Fatass]

This thread has taken a rough turn, between people saying Makar/Hughes mostly got their point totals from playing with good players and now this stuff.

More videos of Seider bullying people and looking like a future all star and less Makar/Hughes slag, please.

Perhaps the current league Seider is in allows him to dominate physically? Was he this dominant physically in the AHL?

 

[Tralfamadore]

Perhaps the current league Seider is in allows him to dominate physically? Was he this dominant physically in the AHL?

His giant man body allows him to dominate physically. He'll always have that part of his game. Logic says he won't be able to get away with as much of it with the speed of the NHL but time will tell. Players will have to keep their heads up around him at any level.

 

[SimonEdvinssonAtSix]

I posted earlier the notion Seider was going to be a Calder finalist, because he would put up offensive numbers similar to Hughes and Makar. Others pointed out Hughes and Makar greatly benefited from the elite talent on their teams, and Seider doesn’t have that advantage.
Which players on Detroit would be considered elite, and would help Seider get to the point totals like the elite guys on Vancouver and Colorado did for Hughes and Makar?

So you're saying that only elite players can help Seider put up points. You're also saying in order for Seider to be valued as much as Hughes or Makar he must put up points. I disagree.

But to answer your question as to which players on Detroit are elite and would help Seider get point totals like Hughes and Makar, none. But Larkin and Mantha are very good players and Seider will be walking into the opportunity to gain major PP time. Expect Seider to be playing 20+ minutes a night and be on our top D pairing. Add in Zadina who is looking like he will be a solid NHL top 6 guy. Then we have Raymond and what will be another top draft pick this year.

Your argument that there must be elite players surrounding Seider in order for him to become a top end highly valued D is false. In fact I think Seider will make guys like Larkin and Mantha even better. Seider can skate, pass, has very high IQ and can shut down the D zone.

I don't care about the Calder , give me Zetterberg over Jackman every day all day.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Perhaps the current league Seider is in allows him to dominate physically? Was he this dominant physically in the AHL?

He sure was! I think small ice in part actually makes it easier. Nowhere to run..

 

[Preposterone]

Perhaps the current league Seider is in allows him to dominate physically? Was he this dominant physically in the AHL?

Awood40 has a Seider highlight package from last year on youtube. Answer is "Yes". He was bullying guys like Mike Liambas as an 18 year old

 

[Fatass]

So you're saying that only elite players can help Seider put up points. You're also saying in order for Seider to be valued as much as Hughes or Makar he must put up points. I disagree.

But to answer your question as to which players on Detroit are elite and would help Seider get point totals like Hughes and Makar, none. But Larkin and Mantha are very good players and Seider will be walking into the opportunity to gain major PP time. Expect Seider to be playing 20+ minutes a night and be on our top D pairing. Add in Zadina who is looking like he will be a solid NHL top 6 guy. Then we have Raymond and what will be another top draft pick this year.

Your argument that there must be elite players surrounding Seider in order for him to become a top end highly valued D is false. In fact I think Seider will make guys like Larkin and Mantha even better. Seider can skate, pass, has very high IQ and can shut down the D zone.

I don't care about the Calder , give me Zetterberg over Jackman every day all day.

Actually, no, I wasn’t suggesting any of this. My first post was my opinion Seider would be a Calder finalist because he will put up points similar to Hughes and Makar. (I suggested 35 points in 56 games) As I stated in my post you just responded to, it was other posters who pointed out Hughes and Makar had the benefit of elite players helping them get to those point totals, and Seider will not.
From what I’m reading here Seider sounds like a Rob Blake type of player. He’s a big bopper, who can play with meanness, while still contributing (to a lesser extent) offensively.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

To the Wings, perhaps. Their team doesn’t have any other high end players, and Vancouver and Colorado do, so I can understand that perspective.

Raymond and Zadina do not exist.

 

[Fatass]

Raymond and Zadina do not exist.

Wings don’t have the high end guys, like the CAnucks and Avs, yet? So isn’t that why it’s not fair to expect Seider to get points like Hughes and Makar?

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

And this is based on his 0 NHL games played? Hughes and Dahlin would have DESTROYED the AHL if they had played there last year.

Offensively they likely would have. Where I was trying to go with my original argument is this; Seider will be a different defenseman than Hughes, Makar or Dahlin. Each brings a different dynamic to their team but are all excellent in their own ways.

All 4 are excellent skaters. All 4 have tremendous upside. Seider's biggest strength will be his combination of size, physical play and defensive acumen that has only gotten better as he's progressed, and I think we are still far from seeing where Seider plateaus. Hughes, for example, his biggest strength is his combination of skating excellence coupled with tremendous passing and vision in the offensive zone. I don't think we've yet seen Quinn's best offensive season.

But right now, Seider is better than Hughes defensively and will very likely be his team's defensive do-it-all stalwart for years to come. Just as Hughes is much better offensively than Seider and will be that dynamic puck rusher in the mold of other offensive greats, but with his frame being much smaller and being a much less physical player I don't expect him to have the same defensive impact as Seider in the future.

This isn't trashing any of the other players. Seider has been the best overall defenseman in the 3rd best hockey league in the world (SHL) after having a really damn good rookie performance in the 4th best hockey league in the world. (AHL) We wings fans are hoping and expecting that he will become a top 20 defenseman in the NHL just like Hughes, Dahlin and Makar.

 

[GOALOFSSON]

Or do you see Seider more of the Dahlin level than the Hughes Makar level? A really good player, but not a superstar point producer.

This is kind of funny because it seems you think Makar/Hughes are better offensively than Dahlin.

He is at worst on their level in that area but will probably end up being better.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Wings don’t have the high end guys, like the CAnucks and Avs, yet? So isn’t that why it’s not fair to expect Seider to get points like Hughes and Makar?

It came across as if you were phrasing it that Detroit doesn't have any high end guys period, whether current players or prospects.

And considering we're talking high end and not elite, I think you could include Larkin and Mantha. The big issue with the Mantha-Larkin-Bert line was that they were good, but the rest of the team was so awful that you could just go weapons hot on that line and not worry about anything else.