RD Moritz Seider (2019, 6th, DET) Part 2

[Pavels Dog]

Watch out when Seider starts playing with NHLers who have high end talent. I can count at least a dozen times where he’s made perfect reads to jump up offensively to create good chances but teammates have lacked the awareness to give him the puck. Seider doesn’t gamble, which is why you don’t see him rushing or pinching all the time, but when the opportunities are there he’s quick to grab it. The offensive awareness is there.

This isn’t a perfect example but it’s in that vein:

 

[Go Wings]

The rest of the division says, no thanks.

The rest of the division has being pounding on Detroit long enough

 

[EXTRAS]

The rest of the division has being pounding on Detroit long enough

Must be hard making the playoffs 25 straight years...

 

[GettingYourMoms]

The rest of the division has being pounding on Detroit long enough

Agree, time for Detroit to shit on other teams again like it should be. Good(Detroit) will prevail against evil(other scrubs).

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Must be hard making the playoffs 25 straight years...

For Detroit fans it's even harder not making the playoffs for 4 (likely 5) years straight.

 

[TheMule93]

 

[raymond23]

I wonder who will be his first victim in the N

 

[Christien]

I wonder who will be his first victim in the N

Kirby Dach

 

[Maverick41]

If you watch the highlight video from today's game (I have a little trouble linking it at the moment for reasons known only to my laptop) you can see that Seider took a stick to the balls in the 1st period.
Other than that there is not a lot to see from him in those highlights except for his quick, simple, little pass to set up the 2-1 goal by Gelinas.
However, if other teams' prospects succeeding doesn't upset you you might wanna check out the video for Höglander's goal which was a beauty, but I am sure that is being discussed in his thread. Still I thought I'd mention it.

 

[Stony Curtis]

Ok, this is getting pretty funny. Every time I come to this thread and I see a new twitter post, it always takes a couple of seconds to load on my phone. I spend those seconds wondering who he knocked on his ass this time.

 

[Vector Cereal]

I don't see Seider breaking 60 points, but not from lack of skill. I remember him pulling off moves at the 2019 prospect tourney that he had no business doing; was really looking forward to see him dominate there this year, but I think he's graduated from that now. I don't think the kind of team the Wings are building will be high scoring enough for Seider or any dman to top 60. Larkin, Mantha, and Bert play great 2 way games. Zadina and Raymond are excellent back checkers. Veleno, Rasmussen, and McIsaac are being developed for a strong defensive game. All of these guys have an offensive touch, but I don't see a scoring title in there. Of all our prospects, Berggren is the most skewed to offense. When you know your division has Matthews, Marner, Pasta, Kuch, Point, Barkov, Huberdeau, and Stutzle for the foreseeable future, the best bet might be to just get really tough to play against.

 

[Fatass]

I don't see Seider breaking 60 points, but not from lack of skill. I remember him pulling off moves at the 2019 prospect tourney that he had no business doing; was really looking forward to see him dominate there this year, but I think he's graduated from that now. I don't think the kind of team the Wings are building will be high scoring enough for Seider or any dman to top 60. Larkin, Mantha, and Bert play great 2 way games. Zadina and Raymond are excellent back checkers. Veleno, Rasmussen, and McIsaac are being developed for a strong defensive game. All of these guys have an offensive touch, but I don't see a scoring title in there. Of all our prospects, Berggren is the most skewed to offense. When you know your division has Matthews, Marner, Pasta, Kuch, Point, Barkov, Huberdeau, and Stutzle for the foreseeable future, the best bet might be to just get really tough to play against.

With this season only being 56 games I see Seider coming in around the 35 point mark, which should get him top three for the Calder.

 

[ricky0034]

With this season only being 56 games I see Seider coming in around the 35 point mark, which should get him top three for the Calder.

Seider isn't playing anywhere close to a full season in the NHL this year

he can't even join the Wings until Rogle's season ends which the regular season doesn't even end until March and then as probably the best team in the league right now a deep Playoff run for Rogle seems pretty likely

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

With this season only being 56 games I see Seider coming in around the 35 point mark, which should get him top three for the Calder.

35 points in 56 games from a rookie defenseman should put them as the clear Calder winner. That's 0.625ppg or 51.25 points over 82 games and likely top 15 in overall defense scoring. It's incredibly rare for a rookie defenseman to score at such a pace.

I'm a huge Seider fan and think he has a higher offensive ceiling than we all originally thought. However, I don't think he's going to score at a 50 point pace in his first full season, though. I think with how bad the Wings are he'll score at a 25-30 point pace his first few years just due to the lack of weapons. (No true 2nd or 3rd line C, only offensive defenseman is Hronek, etc.)

 

[Fatass]

35 points in 56 games from a rookie defenseman should put them as the clear Calder winner. That's 0.625ppg or 51.25 points over 82 games and likely top 15 in overall defense scoring. It's incredibly rare for a rookie defenseman to score at such a pace.

I'm a huge Seider fan and think he has a higher offensive ceiling than we all originally thought. However, I don't think he's going to score at a 50 point pace in his first full season, though. I think with how bad the Wings are he'll score at a 25-30 point pace his first few years just due to the lack of weapons. (No true 2nd or 3rd line C, only offensive defenseman is Hronek, etc.)

Didn’t we just see two guys (Hughes and Makar) get over 50 points in less than 70 games?

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Didn’t we just see two guys (Hughes and Makar) get over 50 points in less than 70 games?

We did. And it's also incredibly rare that they did, and they're also completely different kinds of defensemen than Seider is on much better teams. Makar has Mackinnon, Landeskog and Rantanen. Hughes has Horvat, Petersson and JT Miller.

Detroit has Larkin, Bertuzzi and Mantha. A first line that would rank as one of the worst 10 first lines in the NHL. Colorado scored 92 more goals than Detroit. Vancouver 83.

EDIT: Rookie defensemen have scored 50+ points 17 times. 60 or more points 9 times. 4 of those 9 have worn the Winged Wheel at some point in their careers. (Murphy, Larson, Chelios, Lidstrom)

 

[Fatass]

We did. And it's also incredibly rare that they did, and they're also completely different kinds of defensemen than Seider is on much better teams. Makar has Mackinnon, Landeskog and Rantanen. Hughes has Horvat, Petersson and JT Miller.

Detroit has Larkin, Bertuzzi and Mantha. A first line that would rank as one of the worst 10 first lines in the NHL. Colorado scored 92 more goals than Detroit. Vancouver 83.

How many goals did Vancouver and Colorado score before they had Hughes and Makar though? Maybe the reSon those two teams scored so many more goals than Detroit is the two rookie D? Maybe Seider can do the same for Detroit? Or do you see Seider more of the Dahlin level than the Hughes Makar level? A really good player, but not a superstar point producer.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

How many goals did Vancouver and Colorado score before they had Hughes and Makar though? Maybe the reSon those two teams scored so many more goals than Detroit is the two rookie D? Maybe Seider can do the same for Detroit?

2019 Colorado scored 260 goals in 82 games. 3.170 gpg.
2020 Colorado scored 237 goals in 70 games. 3.385 gpg.

Colorado also added Andre Burakovsky who scored 12 goals in 76 games with Washington in 18-19 but jumped to 20 in 58 games with Colorado in 19-20. They also added Kadri and his 19 goals in 51 games.

2019 Vancouver scored 225 goals in 82 games. 2.743 gpg.
2020 Vancouver scored 228 goals in 69 games. 3.304 gpg.

JT Miller jumped from a 47 points in 75 games with Tampa Bay to 72 in 69 with Vancouver. Their goaltending was miles better in 19-20 than it was in 18-19 as well.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

How many goals did Vancouver and Colorado score before they had Hughes and Makar though? Maybe the reSon those two teams scored so many more goals than Detroit is the two rookie D? Maybe Seider can do the same for Detroit? Or do you see Seider more of the Dahlin level than the Hughes Makar level? A really good player, but not a superstar point producer.

I see Seider as completely different than all of the names you mentioned. He's leaps and bounds better defensively than Dahlin and Hughes who I think need to work quite a bit in those areas. Seider doesn't have the same dynamism offensively as Hughes, Makar or Dahlin, though. He's been joining the rush a lot more in Rogle lately as he's gotten more comfortable, so that's good to see.

I think the other 3 will outproduce him in most years but I think he's going to have a similar effect in tilting the ice like they do. His impact will be in transitioning the puck out of the defensive zone safely and helping to maintain offensive zone possession through strong positioning and stopping clearing attempts by the other team.

 

[Fatass]

I see Seider as completely different than all of the names you mentioned. He's leaps and bounds better defensively than Dahlin and Hughes who I think need to work quite a bit in those areas. Seider doesn't have the same dynamism offensively as Hughes, Makar or Dahlin, though. He's been joining the rush a lot more in Rogle lately as he's gotten more comfortable, so that's good to see.

I think the other 3 will outproduce him in most years but I think he's going to have a similar effect in tilting the ice like they do. His impact will be in transitioning the puck out of the defensive zone safely and helping to maintain offensive zone possession through strong positioning and stopping clearing attempts by the other team.

So more of the all around guy, than the offensive dynamo?

 

[Vector Cereal]

With this season only being 56 games I see Seider coming in around the 35 point mark, which should get him top three for the Calder.

If Seider somehow plays the full 56 game season and scores 35 points, he'll absolutely win the Calder given his defensive play. 35 is a very big ask though - he scored at a much lower pace in the AHL last year, and is at a slightly better pace in the SHL now. I don't think he'll score that many points for a number of years though. If he wins the Calder it'll be a la Barrett Jackman style.

 

[seadawg]

If Seider somehow plays the full 56 game season and scores 35 points, he'll absolutely win the Calder given his defensive play. 35 is a very big ask though - he scored at a much lower pace in the AHL last year, and is at a slightly better pace in the SHL now. I don't think he'll score that many points for a number of years though. If he wins the Calder it'll be a la Barrett Jackman style.

So your saying there's no chance at all...gotcha.

Too bad, though, because when he is eligible (won't be until 2021-22), he certainly deserves consideration because I have no doubt he will be one of the most impactful rookies in the NHL. However, as with most NHL awards, the voters consider offensive more than anything in determining the winner.

 

[ricky0034]

So your saying there's no chance at all...gotcha.

Too bad, though, because when he is eligible (won't be until 2021-22), he certainly deserves consideration because I have no doubt he will be one of the most impactful rookies in the NHL. However, as with most NHL awards, the voters consider offensive more than anything in determining the winner.

saying there's no chance at all....by naming a guy that won the Calder?

Red Wings don't win the Calder anyways nobody since 1965

Yzerman,Fedorov,Lidstrom,Zetterberg,Howard have all finished 2nd

 

[WingsMJN2965]

 

[EXTRAS]

Didn’t we just see two guys (Hughes and Makar) get over 50 points in less than 70 games?

Those were the first times a rookie defenseman had gotten 50 points since 1992-93. It just happened they both did it in the same year. Probably closer to zero percent chance Seider has a 50 point season (which would be equivalent to 34 points in a 56 game season) than you would think. Probably closer to zero percent chance seider puts up a 35 point season than even a 5 percent chance.

Sure, he could have high offensive talent in the future, but so did hedman, Carlson, Karlsson and Josi, and none of them hit 50 until a couple seasons into the league.