RD Mitchell Miller - Tri-City Storm, USHL (2020, 111th, ARI, rights renounced)

[Paper]

Does this inclination of yours extend to people that are racist regardless of color or just white people?

I'm going to take a very very controversial stance, and I understand that the mods may ban me for it but...and please remember this is just my very very controversial opinion... but I think all racists are bad.

 

[Carlzner]

Just turned 50. I personally didn't do what Miller did....but I can honestly say that I've been on both sides of the bullying issue. I've been both the bully and the person getting picked on. As have most kids in this country.

Ever hear of a "swirley"? They were quite common back in the 70's and 80's. Older kids would drag younger kids into the bathroom and stick their heads in the toilet, then flush. It was a common occurrence at our school and many others of the day. When I was a freshman, I was on the receiving end of one. When I was a senior, I was on the giving end. Nothing to be proud of, for sure, but kids do stupid things.

Ah yeah. I can’t think of anything that was socially acceptable back then that is now frowned upon.

God forbid we try to improve society

 

[Oxbow Lakes]

I would consider a public apology as showing remorse:

Most see that as him trying to save face, rather than genuine one.

The main problem people have with this case is the fact that the whole thing arguably goes beyond your average bullying (obviously all kinds of bullying is wrong). Him and his family being rather cagey about the issue, instead of addressing them head on before the shit hits the fan, also make people seem question the genuinety of his apology. Sending apology letters to every NHL team instead of, you know, apologizing personally to the victim himself seems just f***ed up. It just feels like they’re sorry about the incident coming to light instead of the suffering the victim went through.

The way Miller and his family has handled this case ever since them seems just bizarre; not only is it morally questionable, but now the whole case will follow him through because he refused to address it and show he has grown from the incident. Obviously he doesn’t need to show us fans anything really, but the fans obviously don’t need to give him a pass then either.

All this just makes me question his upbringing; My parents we’re always pretty lax while I was growing up. But had I done anything remotely like this, I’d have my ass whooped to next dimension.

 

[MuckOG]

Ah yeah. I can’t think of anything that was socially acceptable back then that is now frowned upon.

God forbid we try to improve society

Not surprisingly, you completely missed the point.

When did the ability to have a nuanced discussion disappear in society?

 

[Khoenator]

Leonard Little killed a family while driving drunk. The St. Louis Rams and the NFL let him continue playing. Marvin Harrison is a well known receiver that was either in a gang or had gang ties and was quietly known to have committed murder or was involved in one at a car wash he owned. Still played in the NFL.

Obviously those are horrific cases, and I'm not sure are there any "after the fact" - actions to redeeme one self.
But Obviously those cases only show sad part of sportbusiness...

 

[Coaches Coroner]

If the internet were around 25 years ago, Randy Moss would've been cancelled before ever playing a down in the NFL.

and if things are like they are now, he still would have had a long career because people who do cancellable things rarely have negative consequences outside of having a bad reputation and people mocking them online.

 

[Bevans]

The fact that you think not getting to play in the NHL is a "punishment" that will "ruin his life" is absurd.

And guess what? Almost every single NHL team disagreed with you & had him on their do not draft list. Go yell at them big guy

Having a player on your do-not-draft list is not the same as thinking a player should not be allowed to play in the NHL. People are allowed to think that others deserve a chance at redemption without being the one to provide it.

I think all you can infer from the do-not-draft teams is that they didn't want to draft him. Going farther than that is a leap of logic that requires more evidence.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

Just turned 50. I personally didn't do what Miller did....but I can honestly say that I've been on both sides of the bullying issue. I've been both the bully and the person getting picked on. As have most kids in this country.

Ever hear of a "swirley"? They were quite common back in the 70's and 80's. Older kids would drag younger kids into the bathroom and stick their heads in the toilet, then flush. It was a common occurrence at our school and many others of the day. When I was a freshman, I was on the receiving end of one. When I was a senior, I was on the giving end. Nothing to be proud of, for sure, but kids do stupid things.

Did you take advantage of disabled, minority kids for years and then force them to lick a popsicle covered in urine? Did you then fail to apologize directly, and show such a lack of remorse than in your case the judge even noted the lack of remorse? Did the kid and his family never forgive you but forgive your co-conspirator? Did you continually bike by their house years after the incident?

There's levels to this shit. I bullied kids too, I was bullied. I never forced anyone to lick popsicles covered in urine, I recognized when I crossed the line and apologized. What he did was not normal bullying behaviour that gets to be written off as 'just boys being boys'. His canned apology that fails to acknowledge the victim and minimizes his actions to 'an incident in grade 8 when I was 14' doesn't really help his case.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

My gawd, I'm not defending Miller's actions, if I witnessed him do anything of the stuff he did, I would've kicked his ass....I just don't think the punishment fits the crime, that's all.

But in today's world, there is no more gray area. Everything is black and white. If you try to inject a little nuance, it comes off as you are defending what Miller did. We can't have that. We need to fire up the pitchforks and ruin his life because what he did as a minor. I get it now.

Correct. His punishment was incredibly and shamefully light for what he did

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Does this inclination of yours extend to people that are racist regardless of color or just white people?

Do you have any examples in mind that are comparable?

 

[Spirits]

Obviously those are horrific cases, and I'm not sure are there any "after the fact" - actions to redeeme one self.
But Obviously those cases only show sad part of sportbusiness...

Right. Sports historically = can you play? It is only in contemporary society that we rake people over the coals over things they did as a kid. In fact, Ray Rice was really the turning point. He got railroaded by the NFL so they could save face.
The people advocating that this kid never gets a shot will ensure that professional sports continue to trend downwards until video game streams are more popular.

 

[Carlzner]

Not surprisingly, you completely missed the point.

When did the ability to have a nuanced discussion disappear in society?

You came into this thread admitting you weren’t properly informed & proceeded to get dunked on by 10+ posters with literally nobody agreeing with you.

At what point will you start to look into the mirror instead of pointing the finger at “society”?

 

[MuckOG]

Did you take advantage of disabled, minority kids for years and then force them to lick a popsicle covered in urine? Did you then fail to apologize directly, and show such a lack of remorse than in your case the judge even noted the lack of remorse? Did the kid and his family never forgive you but forgive your co-conspirator? Did you continually bike by their house years after the incident?

There's levels to this shit. I bullied kids too, I was bullied. I never forced anyone to lick popsicles covered in urine, I recognized when I crossed the line and apologized. What he did was not normal bullying behaviour that gets to be written off as 'just boys being boys'. His canned apology that fails to acknowledge the victim and minimizes his actions to 'an incident in grade 8 when I was 14' doesn't really help his case.

I didn't do what he did, but I did some stuff that I'm embarrassed and ashamed of. And can honestly chalk them up to as being a "stupid kid who didn't know any better"....because that's the truth. Children aren't mentally equipped to feel the same level of empathy as adults can. Most kids don't understand the impacts of what they are doing to others. It's a fact.

 

[Spirits]

Do you have any examples in mind that are comparable?

Do you?

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Do you?

Not on hand, do you?

 

[theslatcher]

I didn't do what he did, but I did some stuff that I'm embarrassed and ashamed of. And can honestly chalk them up to as being a "stupid kid who didn't know any better"....because that's the truth. Children aren't mentally equipped to feel the same level of empathy as adults to. Most kids don't understand the impacts of what they are doing to others. It's a fact.

Hey, when will you comment on the fact that there were two bullies, one was forgiven, and the other was Miller? Or is that too nuanced for you in this bullying case?

 

[Coaches Coroner]

The internet is going to/already has destroyed this kids future. I really hope he has a good mute button and strong support group or he doesn’t have a hope in hell of making it.

I don't think you know what those words mean considering this story was public in 2016 and despite that he still has gotten a full ride scholarship and NHL draft status...but yes, getting criticized on the internet has dEsTroYeD his future lmao. Get a grip.

 

[Spirits]

Not on hand, do you?

Absolutely. This place is far too fragile to even mention them sadly.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Absolutely. This place is far too fragile to even mention them sadly.

Sounds like a no to me.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

Absolutely. This place is far too fragile to even mention them sadly.

that's a trolly way of saying you've got nothing...also lol at the idea that everyone disagreeing with you is fragile, and you sputtering your wheels crusading on behalf of this kid are a big brave strong boy.

 

[Figgy44]

I don’t know if the NHL wants this kind of negative publicity. They are a private company, so it’s up to them to decide if Miller gets opportunity. Miller is starting a scholarship in US college too, and that’s up to the University to decide whether the player deserves to have such a chance. Legally, the system has ruled. However, the private institutions will make their choices as to Miller’s opportunities with them.

I think we, the “mob” as some say, are trying to understand Miller’s lack of empathy and remorse. We “the mob” tend to have empathy, which is why we can understand the point of view of the victimized. However, we can’t understand Miller not feeling remorse or having empathy, because we aren’t sociopathic. We, therefore, connect (empathize) with the victim, and not with the abuser.

What do you think is wrong with Miller? Why is he incapable of showing remorse or displaying empathy? Do you think it’s normal for human beings to not feel remorse or be empathetic?

I find many individuals nowadays like to significantly exaggerate and use dramatic verbiage which makes things convoluted when everyone gets into a mob frenzy. I don't think Miller is a sociopath or psychopath as many like to say. I do not believe he is not capable of understanding human emotion. I think he is more of a sadist where he derived pleasure in tormenting Meyer-Crothers specifically.

Mentioned in the previous threads (that got shut down for a reason and hopefully this prospect one doesn't too, so let's try to get it back on track), some others and I felt he and his family just straight up refuses to apologize to Meyer-Crothers. The reason is unknown. Some may point at the upbringing and family environment, but the rollerblading past the family home during the no contact IMO shows that Mitchell himself is acting as his own agent in perpetuating this stuff and IMO it kinda shows he is doing it on purpose, likely because he likes it.

Look, while yes, the NHL absolutely doesn't want the negative publicity of someone un-remorseful and someone who flaunts poor judgement in relation to diversity and equality. But there are too many keyboard warriors and SJW who basically put the onus on the individual to just figure it out himself/herself or someone else will basically guide them. It is absolutely in the NHL's favor to put in a ton of hands on effort and work to rehab this kid and as a significant stepping stone towards the diversity and equality they want. If successful, they could champion him as an example. If unsuccessful, they can still learn a ton about the programs they use to attempt to fix some of the significant cultural problems in hockey today.


Parallel this to a concept about 10-15 years ago. Hopefully this doesn't get filtered because I think it's important to remember and learn from. But 10-15 years ago, does anyone remember how English slang had gay = stupid (That's so gay, you're so gay etc.)? It took a long while and I don't remember what the tipping point was, but it took a while for the LGBTQ+ community to finally explain to the masses that that word usage was hurtful and painful for their community. They also spent a ton of time respectfully asking many to stop using the word gay in lieu of the word stupid. Lots of legwork was done to allow them to reclaim the word gay as their own.

I'm not going to pretend that once upon a time I didn't fully understand my actions in terms of the usage of the word gay = stupid. Hiding behind the fact that everyone seemed to use the word in that manner is bad form and irrelevant. Mowing people down for not being enlightened of this error isn't going to help. You need former transgressors as allies to really get the strength and momentum needed to instill change. We don't have to reinvent the wheel, we can adapt a wheel used in the past and change the social topic that needs to be attached to the wheel of change.

If the Yotes aren't already doing this, I hope the league steps in to do hands on work on Mitchell Miller. I'm not going to lie, I freaking hate this kid. But I still think everyone needs to do everything possible to try and give him an opportunity for redemption, no matter how many times he doesn't take advantage of the opportunity. Again, I freaking hate this kid, but the more we try and crucify him, the more he and many of his ilk entrench themselves in their belief. It's hard as hell, but the way to victory is kindness and compassion, even if it's painful as hell to deploy.

A metaphor I often use is that when you point a finger, understand that there are more pointing back at yourself. Everyone is making this about Mitchell Miller. But I think we should also not forget that a lot of this should also be about evaluating ourselves. Bullying a bully only perpetuates a problem. Creating allies and friendship is how we will socially move to be better as a whole going forward.

 

[Spirits]

that's a trolly way of saying you've got nothing...also lol at the idea that everyone disagreeing with you is fragile, and you sputtering your wheels crusading on behalf of this kid are a big brave strong boy.

No, more the fact that according to this place only white people can be racist. You really aren’t someone I will even waste more time interacting with. Enjoy your future!

 

[Spirits]

Sounds like a no to me.

Live in whichever fantasy world you choose.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

No, more the fact that according to this place only whites people can be racist. You really aren’t someone I will even waste more time interacting with. Enjoy your future!

not really, that's just a strawman you've built in your head because you get dummied every time you get involved in an argument on here.

Really amazing you've changed the topic from Miller who abused a black kid physically and mentally, using racist slurs into a "whaahh whaahhh people are mean to white people". You've gone from defending the guy convicted of victimizing another kid, to making white people and ostensibly yourself of being the victim of anti white racism. Shit is unreal lmao.

Live in whichever fantasy world you choose.

why don't you give the examples, surely if they have merit you have nothing to lose by doing so even if "fragile" people get mad at you...or you can run away and hide when asked for examples from people willing to engage you in discussion, while calling everyone else fragile lmao.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Live in whichever fantasy world you choose.

I'm living in the world where when someone tells me they have evidence for something and don't provide it, I will not believe them.