RD Mitchell Miller - Tri-City Storm, USHL (2020, 111th, ARI, rights renounced)

[Carlzner]

Answer my question. Was Miller a child/minor at the time of the bullying?

Heck, in many cases kids commit murder and the offense doesn't follow them after they become adults.

Miller is currently an adult & has clearly shown 0 remorse for the incident. Something you would have realized if you, again, had taken the time to actually read up on what has happened before entering this thread spouting nonsense.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Was Miller not a child at the time? Do we generally hold adults responsible for what they did as children/minors?

Depends; he was also apparently 16 at the time, which is a weird gray area between adult and child. But hockey is a privilege, not a right. Miller can go and do something else like work in the oil fields in North Dakota than play hockey. No one is taking him away from working, just not in hockey.

 

[MuckOG]

I'm the first guy in the world literally to shit all over cancel culture and SJWs, but at this point if you're defending this kid you're just a f***ing idiot. This happened 4 years ago. Mitchell Miller is only 18. This is recent history.

My gawd, I'm not defending Miller's actions, if I witnessed him do anything of the stuff he did, I would've kicked his ass....I just don't think the punishment fits the crime, that's all.

But in today's world, there is no more gray area. Everything is black and white. If you try to inject a little nuance, it comes off as you are defending what Miller did. We can't have that. We need to fire up the pitchforks and ruin his life because what he did as a minor. I get it now.

 

[Fatass]

Of course it was and I'm not excusing his behavior. I just think that preventing him from earning a living playing hockey because of what he did as a child is taking this too far.

I don’t know if the NHL wants this kind of negative publicity. They are a private company, so it’s up to them to decide if Miller gets opportunity. Miller is starting a scholarship in US college too, and that’s up to the University to decide whether the player deserves to have such a chance. Legally, the system has ruled. However, the private institutions will make their choices as to Miller’s opportunities with them.
I think we, the “mob” as some say, are trying to understand Miller’s lack of empathy and remorse. We “the mob” tend to have empathy, which is why we can understand the point of view of the victimized. However, we can’t understand Miller not feeling remorse or having empathy, because we aren’t sociopathic. We, therefore, connect (empathize) with the victim, and not with the abuser.
What do you think is wrong with Miller? Why is he incapable of showing remorse or displaying empathy? Do you think it’s normal for human beings to not feel remorse or be empathetic?

 

[Paper]

Answer my question. Was Miller a child/minor at the time of the bullying?

Let's agree on minor seeing as the victim alleges it occurred until he was 16 which I don't know if I classify as a child.

Now answer me this, was he a legal adult when he chose to send an apology to 31 NHL teams instead of seeking forgiveness from his victim?

Did that apology to the 31 NHL teams downplay the severity of his actions, pretending it to be a single incident and not a decade long event, while calling his victim a friend as though to imply that amends were made?

Did his victim forgive his other bully because he showed remorse while not forgiven Miller because he refused to?

 

[theslatcher]

My gawd, I'm not defending Miller's actions, if I witnessed him do anything of the stuff he did, I would've kicked his ass....I just don't think the punishment fits the crime, that's all.

But in today's world, there is no more gray area. Everything is black and white. If you try to inject a little nuance, it comes off as you are defending what Miller did. We can't have that. We need to fire up the pitchforks and ruin his life because what he did as a minor. I get it now.

What punishment?

 

[Carlzner]

My gawd, I'm not defending Miller's actions, if I witnessed him do anything of the stuff he did, I would've kicked his ass....I just don't think the punishment fits the crime, that's all.

But in today's world, there is no more gray area. Everything is black and white. If you try to inject a little nuance, it comes off as you are defending what Miller did. We can't have that. We need to fire up the pitchforks and ruin his life because what he did as a minor. I get it now.

The fact that you think not getting to play in the NHL is a "punishment" that will "ruin his life" is absurd.

And guess what? Almost every single NHL team disagreed with you & had him on their do not draft list. Go yell at them big guy

 

[MuckOG]

Miller is currently an adult & has clearly shown 0 remorse for the incident. Something you would have realized if you, again, had taken the time to actually read up on what has happened before entering this thread spouting nonsense.

I would consider a public apology as showing remorse:

“I am extremely sorry about the bullying incident that occurred in 2016 while I was in eighth grade,” Miller said. “I was young, immature and feel terrible about my actions. At the time, I did not understand the gravity of my actions and how they can affect other people.

“I have issued an apology to the family for my behavior, completed cultural diversity and sensitivity training and volunteered within my community with organizations such as Little Miracles. Over the past four years, I have had a lot of time to reflect and grow and I am very grateful to the Arizona Coyotes for taking a chance on me. I promise not to let them down. Moving forward, I want to be a leader for this cause and help end bullying and racism.”

 

[Paper]

"bullying incident that occurred in 2016 while I was in eighth grade"

Okay, so one incident. Now what about the ensuing bullying he did from 2nd grade to tenth grade?

See, this is why people don't believe he was remorseful, he can't even tell the truth about it.

 

[Carlzner]

I would consider a public apology as showing remorse:

Cool now post his apology made directly to the family

 

[MuckOG]

Cool now post his apology made directly to the family

If he went and apologized to the person to his face, would you feel that he has done enough and we can all move on? Because I get the feeling that there is nothing Miller can do that would appease the mob.

 

[Carlzner]

If he went and apologized to the person to his face, would you feel that he has done enough and we can all move on? Because I get the feeling that there is nothing Miller can do that would appease the mob.

Nope. An apology now is a clear effort to save face. If he actually had any remorse or regret he would have made a personal apology years ago, like the other teenager who did & has since been forgiven.

 

[PBandJ]

Normally I'd be all about a second chance.

The issue here though is that Miller hasn't shown any remorse, and if anything has put more work into salvaging his career than he has actually making amends. He never apologized to the family, and according to teams that interviewed him, wouldn't cooperate with questions about the situation.

Second chances have to be earned, and from what he's shown, he hasn't earned the benefit of doubt.

 

[Paper]

If he went and apologized to the person to his face, would you feel that he has done enough and we can all move on? Because I get the feeling that there is nothing Miller can do that would appease the mob.

If he had made that attempt anytime in the last 4 years, the family probably forgives him (like they did the other bully), and there isn't a story. He made the decision each day for the last 4 years not to apologize to his face.

But if his victim felt he was truly remorseful and not doing it as a publicity stunt, then that's between them and would absolutely go a long way to start the redemption process and appeasing the mob. Keyword is start. He hasn't even attempted to begin his redemption story.

 

[Techcoockie]

I wasn't aware that the bullying occurred after up until 2 years ago.

Regarding bullying that happened from 2nd grade to 8th grade......there is nothing uncommon about that. Kids can be cruel. It's been going on since the dawn of mankind.

I'm sure most people (including mysellf) have done things at that age that they are ashamed of. Including many of the people online throwing stones at him.

ahhhhh I finaly understood why you keep defending his actions

"I'm sure most people (including mysellf) have done things at that age that they are ashamed of"

- if you did anything remotely like this without any remorse you were a vile kid without strict parenting and terrible role models. I really hope you are a better human being now, but I doubt it.
Those kind of traits don't disappear at 18 years old, it's sociopathic traits. I'm hopping you are just the everyday troll, not a real sociopath.

How old are you ?

 

[Fatass]

I would consider a public apology as showing remorse:

You honestly believe this is a heart felt apology written by Miller? You don’t think this is from legal representation?

 

[Figgy44]

OK, going in a different direction since the discussion on Miller's actions has been beaten to death a thousand times over already....

I'm not wishing ill will on the kid. I am just wondering if there will be pockets of communities that end up pulling some form of vigilante justice to keep him from reaching the NHL.

SOCIALLY:

Do any of you think the Coyotes are legitimately interested in helping Miller learn to be a better human being? Do you think they will bury the kid, even if he has talent, if he basically doesn't resolve things appropriately with Meyer-Crothers in a satisfactory manner and isn't improving?

I honestly do have an optimism that the Yotes legitimately want to rehab the kid. I also think that the make up and beliefs of that front office and ownership group might mean they will definitely want to be first in line for first blood if a burying campaign on him ends up happening. Like could it be a huge gambit? With the dark Chayka cloud looming for at least 2 years talent pipeline wise, if they could score a huge social victory with Miller, super awesome, but if not, it's entertaining to see him experience a little bit of what he inflicted on others for a long period of time?

CAREER:

Do you guys like that Miller will end up developing? Like certain coaches who hate what he stands for end up doing the bare minimum to coach him and low key try to derail his career (professional conduct or not)? Opposition coaches who are having a frustrating run who decide to have their team play physical on Miller to blow off steam (which in the long run potentially derails him due to injuries)? Team mates who have no chill and obliterate him like in game situations during scrimmages etc.?

I think this kid is on a slippery slope uphill battle development wise. I think many levels of hockey will let him play out his talents, but might not be totally interested in vesting a ton of interest in developing him. He may have to figure out how to self develop (and hopefully socially, not just hockey) as the tools being offered to him might be slightly limited.

Thoughts?

 

[Khoenator]

Was Miller not a child at the time? Do we generally hold adults responsible for what they did as children/minors?

Well.. It's not so easy to define responsibility.
No one is trying to stop him from playing hockey.
But NHL... grandjewl of hockey is not just hockey, it means something to play there.
What kind of character you want to build your teams, and how you want to represent to your fans are important.

Unfortunately on this case, it's not about what he did... It's about what he DIDN'T do after.
Did not own to it... Face to Face apology for example. The other abuser did that, and the victim accepted it.
He only wrote some court mandate letter, which the family didn't even receve.
I do have to say, Millers parents actions or lack of them are very conserning.
At this age and day, they had to know this comes up.
It would have been so EASY and right thing to do, to make SOME effort In these few Years after the court.

So yes, no one is canceling life from him, but being In NHL is very big deal, and character should matter.

 

[FreeMcdavid]

this kid was on every team's NO DRAFT LIST.

Why did Arizona use a 4th round on him? If they really wanted him why didnt thye just use ther 200th something overall pick in the 7th round to get him?

Just a disaster of a franchise

 

[Fatass]

If he had made that attempt anytime in the last 4 years, the family probably forgives him (like they did the other bully), and there isn't a story. He made the decision each day for the last 4 years not to apologize to his face.

But if his victim felt he was truly remorseful and not doing it as a publicity stunt, then that's between them and would absolutely go a long way to start the redemption process. Keyword is start. He hasn't even attempted to begin his redemption story.

Which is why “the mob” is confused on the matter. Normal healthy minded people will feel remorse for such terrible actions, and need t apologize, and hope for forgiveness.

 

[Paper]

My stance is simple, until he truly seeks redemption from his victim, until his victim is satisficed that he is remorseful, I won't hope any ill-will against Miller but I will simply be hoping that every other Coyote prospect outplays him and keeps him off the NHL roster.

There's roughly 1000 spots in the NHL, this is a huge privilege that millions of us dreamt of, I can hope that non-racists make it over racists.

 

[My3Sons]

...There are three kinds of bullying.

You can steal the sandwich of a bullied kid and make him work to get it back.
You can steal the sandwich of a bullied kid and eat it in front of him.
You can steal the sandwich of a bullied kid, take a big dump in said sandwich, give if back to the bullied kid and made him eat the turd sandwich.

First and second kind are objectionnable, and the kind of stuff to be ashamed of. Not uncommon. Gets away with age. Third is the stuff of pure sociopaths.
What Miller did was way, way closer to the 3rd kind. On a long period. On a disabled kid.
He deserves all the stones he's gonna receive, preferably from Randy Johnson.

I think a bunch of folks are missing that point you make about the sociopathic behavior. This story, to the extent it is accurate (I have no reason to believe it isn't) is right on that borderline of identifying someone as truly dangerous and irredeemable without longterm intensive therapy and probably permanent monitoring. If AZ wanted to help this kid they'd get him enrolled with a specialist in this sort of behavior and have him genuinely evaluated and go from there. Maybe this really was just a jack ass without oversight (where were his parents when this was going on?) who was allowed to continue to be a jackass because of a unique victim who wasn't able to articulate what was going on. I'm skeptical there is any mitigation of Miller's actions based on what I'm reading, but the mob mentality isn't the answer either. A sociopath is itself a form of illness. The problem is I don't know if it can be cured. At some point this kid is going to be called to account, probably more than once, and I'm not sure if multiple wrongs make a right.

 

[Spirits]

Well.. It's not so easy to define responsibility.
No one is trying to stop him from playing hockey.
But NHL... grandjewl of hockey is not just hockey, it means something to play there.
What kind of character you want to build your teams, and how you want to represent to your fans are important.

Unfortunately on this case, it's not about what he did... It's about what he DIDN'T do after.
Did not own to it... Face to Face apology for example. The other abuser did that, and the victim accepted it.
He only wrote some court mandate letter, which the family didn't even receve.
I do have to say, Millers parents actions or lack of them are very conserning.
At this age and day, they had to know this comes up.
It would have been so EASY and right thing to do, to make SOME effort In these few Years after the court.

So yes, no one is canceling life from him, but being In NHL is very big deal, and character should matter.

Leonard Little killed a family while driving drunk. The St. Louis Rams and the NFL let him continue playing. Marvin Harrison is a well known receiver that was either in a gang or had gang ties and was quietly known to have committed murder or was involved in one at a car wash he owned. Still played in the NFL.

 

[Spirits]

My stance is simple, until he truly seeks redemption from his victim, until his victim is satisficed that he is remorseful, I won't hope any ill-will against Miller but I will simply be hoping that every other Coyote prospect outplays him and keeps him off the NHL roster.

There's roughly 1000 spots in the NHL, this is a huge privilege that millions of us dreamt of, I can hope that non-racists make it over racists.

Does this inclination of yours extend to people that are racist regardless of color or just white people?

 

[MuckOG]

ahhhhh I finaly understood why you keep defending his actions

"I'm sure most people (including mysellf) have done things at that age that they are ashamed of"

- if you did anything remotely like this without any remorse you were a vile kid without strict parenting and terrible role models. I really hope you are a better human being now, but I doubt it.
Those kind of traits don't disappear at 18 years old, it's sociopathic traits. I'm hopping you are just the everyday troll, not a real sociopath.

How old are you ?

Just turned 50. I personally didn't do what Miller did....but I can honestly say that I've been on both sides of the bullying issue. I've been both the bully and the person getting picked on. As have most kids in this country.

Ever hear of a "swirley"? They were quite common back in the 70's and 80's. Older kids would drag younger kids into the bathroom and stick their heads in the toilet, then flush. It was a common occurrence at our school and many others of the day. When I was a freshman, I was on the receiving end of one. When I was a senior, I was on the giving end. Nothing to be proud of, for sure, but kids do stupid things.