RD Mitchell Miller - Tri-City Storm, USHL (2020, 111th, ARI, rights renounced)
- Thread starter Pavel Buchnevich
- Start date
What do you think about Isaiah Meyer-Crothers story? I agree about people quoting as a unnamed source but this situation doesn’t look good
And the post about Miller's father was ok? Ease up with words like "disgusting" since you clearly don't understand what I was doing. I was making a comparison and the point is that BOTH are irrelevant. This should have been clear from context, but it was then explained as well. You can also stop preaching. I know where I'm coming from and you can get off your high horse.
I'm not shifting blame. The events that Miller was brought to court for were awful, I don't see anyone saying anything to dispute that or excuse it in any way. What is being questioned is whether there should be a second chance for a 14 yr old (or anyone I guess), and also how to weigh more recent comments about what he's done or not done subsequently that don't have the sort of evidence that the issues in court had (including video and eyewitness).
I'm not shifting blame. The events that Miller was brought to court for were awful, I don't see anyone saying anything to dispute that or excuse it in any way. What is being questioned is whether there should be a second chance for a 14 yr old (or anyone I guess), and also how to weigh more recent comments about what he's done or not done subsequently that don't have the sort of evidence that the issues in court had (including video and eyewitness).
I see the comparison now, I've edited my statement.
I don't think they're on the same level, no. One statement has been brought up to try to victim blame (not saying you posted it for that reason, but that is the reason the information has repeatedly been presented). The other contextualizes the offender's actions: [kid from a racist family becomes a racist bully]. Considering that this thread is about the offender's actions, mindset, behavior, etc... it is far more relevant. Perhaps it is in some ways out of bounds, we could have a discussion whether it is, but it is not remotely comparable to the absolute irrelevancy of the victim's fathers criminal record.
There is more evidence you might not have read, which I'll get to in a second - but you have to consider at the very least that when the victim and victim's mother say there was a pattern of abuse and that there was no attempt to make amends, their opinion on that matter is a dealbreaker. If you argue that maybe he tried to apologize and maybe they're making things up, you have to ask why is it that they hate Miller so much? Their opinion matters here in a different way than if it was just an accuser in a case where the initial guilt is unproven.
The victim and victim's mother said in 2016 (this was a big story in Toledo at the time) that there were many years of physical abuse up until Miller got caught on camera. Her/their story has been consistent.
The Jr. High classmates are quoted as saying that Miller had directed racial slurs at the victim very frequently. Finally - and I haven't found enough details to pin this on Miller - The girl who ratted out Miller said she had seen the victim assaulted so many times that she got sick of it. It should be a matter of record somewhere who she says was the assailant.
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The Mighty Duck Man
R-E-L-A-X
The Miller's dad post at least adds some context to the scenario. Hell, if anything its a point in Miller's favor. Maybe his actions as a teenager were heavily influenced by at least one of his parents being a big time POS, and if that's the case, maybe there is a hope for him after all. It'd be much worse for him if his parents were genuinely good people and he just was a POS all on his own.
But what does bringing up the victims dad matter?
The Mighty Duck Man
R-E-L-A-X
What’s the big deal? Miller just systematically bullied a developmentally challenged child as well as consistently used racial slurs against him for a number of years. Miller was only a teenager so he didn’t know better.
He obviously regrets it so much he’s too ashamed to apologize to the victim or the victim’s family. In fact, he’s so ashamed of his behavior he can only bring it up when he’s worried about his future in the NHL draft.
/s
Sarcarsm aside, this kid sounds absolutely horrible and I’m ashamed the Coyotes drafted him.
While people need to be able to atone for their mistakes a lack of remorse is incredibly disappointing and worrying. I’ll be rooting hard against this kids hockey career.
He obviously regrets it so much he’s too ashamed to apologize to the victim or the victim’s family. In fact, he’s so ashamed of his behavior he can only bring it up when he’s worried about his future in the NHL draft.
/s
Sarcarsm aside, this kid sounds absolutely horrible and I’m ashamed the Coyotes drafted him.
While people need to be able to atone for their mistakes a lack of remorse is incredibly disappointing and worrying. I’ll be rooting hard against this kids hockey career.
Thanks. Not saying this for you, but for anyone else about to misunderstand where I'm coming from I'm going to say upfront: There's no defense of what he did and was found guilty of in 2016.
There's a difference between defending his actions and defending the idea that someone can change, especially an adolescent. The gist of many posts are that the evidence is that he hasn't changed at all and I consider this claim to have insufficient evidence, based on what I've seen so far (which might not be everything -- for example I have not read the Athletic article which is behind a paywall).
I had seen all of that. I don't agree that the victim's dissatisfaction with the contrition is a dealbreaker (though it is relevant). Victim's don't determine sentences, though their statements might influence the court. I don't think it is a good practice to accept their claims without reservation in forming a public opinion either. There's a good reason for this: they may not be able to look at things objectively at all. Their (understandable) anger/hatred might be disproportionate, and if that is the case in this instance the claims that he rollerbladed by their house (and if so, what that signified) or that he continued bullying as recently as 2 yrs ago (which the mother's recent letter said) have to be viewed as unproven unless there is more corroboration. Those taking it as a given that the claims are accurate are making a biased leap. If there's concrete evidence that 2 years after court he was still objectively bullying the victim then I'll be ready to join the crowd.
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Why is the onus on the victim?
We know what this guy did as a 14 year old. We know what the magistrate said about him having no remorse during the case. We know that the victim was able to forgive the other student because he showed remorse with a sincere apology.
If the victim and his mother says the bullying went on for 2 more years and no apology was given, I trust their word over the word of a racist who assaulted a disabled minority.
Onus should be on Miller to prove he has changed, not the victim to prove he didn't.
We know what this guy did as a 14 year old. We know what the magistrate said about him having no remorse during the case. We know that the victim was able to forgive the other student because he showed remorse with a sincere apology.
If the victim and his mother says the bullying went on for 2 more years and no apology was given, I trust their word over the word of a racist who assaulted a disabled minority.
Onus should be on Miller to prove he has changed, not the victim to prove he didn't.
Killerjas
Registered User
KaseMeOutside
Based
- Oct 18, 2011
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Its one thing to say that vile word
It's another to bully disabled people thats on an entirely different level.
What corrective actions have been taken and does he show real remorse? Evidently many NHL team's didnt think he did
Not all mistakes are the same and it seems like some are trying to lump all mistakes together because "we all did stupid things"
I never bullied a f***ing handicapped person and I hope nobody else here has either
Coaches Coroner
Member
- Mar 12, 2009
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He has had years to make amends but as per the mother of the victim he has not even tried. Any attempt now would also come across a lot less sincere given that he has received so much bad press and is trying to save any potential pro career he might have.
Leaf Fans
Registered User
- Sep 29, 2017
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I am not suggesting he be given a pass, my opinion is conditional on him changing who he was/is
MXD
Partying Hard
- Oct 27, 2005
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Nobody expects a good take from this user, and he's absolutely hellbent on proving everyone they were right in keeping expectations low or inexistent.
Techcoockie
Registered User
dangomon
Registered User
Second chances are earned, not given. So far he's earned nothing, therefore he deserves nothing.
Exactly, if he wants a second chance he should sincerely reach out to the family and learn from what they tell him. If he does that and shows that he understands why what he did was wrong he can earn that second chance of showing he is a better person now and will strive to continue to get better.
Rabid Ranger
2 is better than one
According to this a third of NHL teams had him on their DND list: Insider Trading: At least one third of NHL teams had scratched Miller off their draft list - TSN.ca
Rabid Ranger
2 is better than one
People keep saying this. Why do you think that would happen? Do you think there is a collective conscience on this?
Fatass
Registered User
- Apr 17, 2017
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I think the “collective conscience” on this Miller case is more about why this person shows no remorse, and lacks empathy for his victim. Collectively (normally functioning members of a society) we are trying to understand Miller’s actions, and lack of remorse. We can’t, because his behaviour (past bullying a mentally handicapped child, and no empathetic remorse) is so horribly wrong.
Rabid Ranger
2 is better than one
No, I'm questioning why a lot of posters think that he's going to get some comeuppance on the ice because of this.
