RD Cody Ceci (2012, 15th overall, Ottawa)
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wouldn't be surprised both put up some really good numbers in juniors. Both have good potential
Ceci has had a good season so far in the ahl
Sting
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- Feb 8, 2004
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Honest question: Why is it an "Absolutely not"?
Ceci has certainly shown more in the 3 games he's been in the NHL than Rielly. They're 3 months apart in terms of age, so that's not really a factor either. The only difference is one was drafted higher than the other.
At both the AHL and NHL level, Rielly hasn't exactly impressed. That isn't to say he is incapable of improving dramatically, but it is what it is.
The last time Toronto had the fifth overall selection and Ottawa had the fifteenth overall selection...
BondraTime
Registered User
Two weeks ago I'd have agreed with you. Having seen them both play in the NHL at a young age now I'd say so far it doesn't appear as though much separates them and anything can happen.
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Otherwise, I think it's too early for Ceci supporters, of which I am one, to pat ourselves on the back. He's playing well, and it's impressive he's able to assert himself and his style from the beginning, but few young defencemen develop in a linear manner. Even without injuries as a variable, the experience of somewhat similar players like Michael Del Zotto shows it's far too early to draw any conclusions about Ceci. What is becoming apparent though is that he at least has NHL level tools and his development is back on track.
Otherwise, I think it's too early for Ceci supporters, of which I am one, to pat ourselves on the back. He's playing well, and it's impressive he's able to assert himself and his style from the beginning, but few young defencemen develop in a linear manner. Even without injuries as a variable, the experience of somewhat similar players like Michael Del Zotto shows it's far too early to draw any conclusions about Ceci. What is becoming apparent though is that he at least has NHL level tools and his development is back on track.
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Good points.
Also, I've a few times hear former players advise younger players that they just should settle in to the fact that they are going to have a few really tough stretches during their career, and that the biggest challenge for a professional player always is to live through the rough patches. Not to be able to fly as high as possible when things are going your way.
Its pretty frustrating to be involved in discussions like in this thread with a player you know pretty well (in my case MDZ). Both during ups and downs. When Del Zotto was top 30 in the league in scoring, top 10 in ES scoring, top 20 or whatever in +/-, on a regular basis when he was 19-21 y/o, people was too high on him. Then he finds himself with two D's, Staal and McD, just blocking him in the line-up, people all of a sudden thinks he is compareable with any D on the verge of the NHL. Now Marc Staal is down with another concussions, and whops all of a sudden MDZ is scoring at a 0.5 PPG pace again and logging + in that column.
I think D's are a little tricky in this regard. They really need a good position, and for any D, alot of "pts" is coming from just being on the ice and doing a decent job in some situations. Besides that, one of the most important area for a D, the transition game, doesn't show much at all in any point column. Being able to make the same plays shift after shift.
Ceci is an interesting kid for sure and its awsome for the Sens that he is doing so well. But you can't get too high or low on these kids. And you can especially not focus too much on the "big" plays they make, the hits, plays that directly leads to a goal or whatever. The key is really the job they do on a shift by shift basis.
-- It is really important for a D to be able to solve a forcheck, beat his man or deliver pretty high caliber passes.
-- It is also really important for them to be able to keep the gap controll and not allow ice infront of them.
I think these are two areas in which many casual fans fails to acknowledge. A D who don't do the above don't put himself in trouble, he puts his unit on the ice in trouble. I mean, a D that just throws the puck away up ice when he gets will never almost commit any blantant turnovers. But he will end up defending alot. A D that don't keep the gap controll and just backs down will never be beaten wide or whatever, but he will leave alot of open ice infront of him and put his unit in trouble.
YNWA14
Onbreekbaar
- Dec 29, 2010
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I've been saying for a long time that Ceci was a steal at that position (as will be Lazar). I still think he's a top 5 - 8 talent from that draft, and he'll be right up there as one of the best, if not the best, D from the draft.
Yes, he's better than Rielly right now IMO and has been better than Rielly at every stage, but I wouldn't use Rielly as a benchmark as they're different kinds of players.
Yes, he's better than Rielly right now IMO and has been better than Rielly at every stage, but I wouldn't use Rielly as a benchmark as they're different kinds of players.
YNWA14
Onbreekbaar
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Since all the other D from this draft are getting bumped I figure now wouldn't be a bad time for Ceci to get the same treatment. He has been absolutely phenomenal and the TSN panel last night even highlighted him for a type of play that he makes very regularly for the Sens.
Such a strong draft class for defencemen, and I fully believe that Ceci can easily end up being at the top of that list when things are said and done. He's so smart with the puck, sound positionally and extremely mobile. He recognizes when to jump up in the rush, but doesn't stick around down low if the opportunity isn't seized -- he immediately skates back to his position on defence. Last night there were 3 Washington forwards ahead of him and he burned by all of them to get back and clog up a shooting lane (just an example of his speed and ability to get up and down the ice). His shot from the point always seems to get through. He makes very intelligent decisions all over the ice, and he's very strong in puck battles.
Since Ceci has been called up he's been Ottawa's best and most consistent defenceman despite being saddled with a struggling Phillips most nights. After the Ceci call-up Ottawa has gone 10 - 5 - 3 after going 12 - 14 - 6 without him.
Such a strong draft class for defencemen, and I fully believe that Ceci can easily end up being at the top of that list when things are said and done. He's so smart with the puck, sound positionally and extremely mobile. He recognizes when to jump up in the rush, but doesn't stick around down low if the opportunity isn't seized -- he immediately skates back to his position on defence. Last night there were 3 Washington forwards ahead of him and he burned by all of them to get back and clog up a shooting lane (just an example of his speed and ability to get up and down the ice). His shot from the point always seems to get through. He makes very intelligent decisions all over the ice, and he's very strong in puck battles.
Since Ceci has been called up he's been Ottawa's best and most consistent defenceman despite being saddled with a struggling Phillips most nights. After the Ceci call-up Ottawa has gone 10 - 5 - 3 after going 12 - 14 - 6 without him.
Powdered Toast Man
Is he a ham?
- Nov 22, 2005
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It's funny. I almost think Ceci is getting less hype outside the Senators board because Senators fans are kind of wary about actually giving their opinion for fear of over-hyping.
You get more "Ceci is great" when what they really want to say is "Ceci reminds me of Drew Doughty." They wouldn't be completely wrong either.
You get more "Ceci is great" when what they really want to say is "Ceci reminds me of Drew Doughty." They wouldn't be completely wrong either.
gretskidoo
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- Nov 26, 2011
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Why is he playing 9 minutes less on average(10 and a half last night) than Karlsson if he's been better than him? Is MacLean really that bad of a coach?
SpezDispenser
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- Aug 15, 2007
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Um...because he's not on the same level as Erik Karlsson - and most likely never will be?
What gave anyone in the world the impression that Cody Ceci is 'better' than Erik Karlsson?
Powdered Toast Man
Is he a ham?
- Nov 22, 2005
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He's a 20 year old rookie with 18 NHL games. No matter how good he is as looked, you don't just rush him to the top especially when the top is occupied.
A sens fan two posts up just said that Ceci has been Ottawa's best and most consistent d man since his call up...
Ceci is consistent thought he hasn't played enough to be really be called 'consistent'
Karlsson is better but Karlsson has been up and down
Karlsson is better but Karlsson has been up and down
SpezDispenser
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Yeah, he's been very solid as a 2nd pairing D-man. Karlsson is up there against team's top lines and he's had his ups and downs. The thing is, Karlsson's ups obliterate the highest ceiling imaginable for Ceci - and his downs are all part of the learning process for a 23 year old.
I love Ceci, I think the minute they called him up, the Sens changed a lot. They got a solid 2nd pairing right hander to play with Methot and it stabilized the Sens D from top to bottom. I also think he'll continue to improve as he's just turned 20, but he and Karlsson are different D-men - and it's really, really hard to say that Ceci's 'better', or even in the same tier as Karlsson.
He probably should have said best 2 way D man. In that regard Ceci has outclassed Karlsson.
But as bad a Karlsson has been on the defensive end, his offense more than makes up for it, which is why he gets most of the time.
TheBradyBunch
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- Dec 17, 2008
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I dunno, to me EK has looked average offensively while playing some really good D... especially yesterday
bottomofthefoodchain
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So the top-scoring d-man in the league has looked average offensively?
I wouldn't say he's playing pretty good D, either. This is probably where the word average should be used. And some say that would be generous.
YNWA14
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Well MacLean is a coach that really leans on veteran players. Karlsson is our #1 d-man whether he gets outplayed or not, and it's hard to judge across pairings when they're not playing against the same level of competition. Personally I wouldn't hesitate to give Ceci more minutes than he's been getting because he's been phenomenal, but it is what it is.
This too.
That's a bit of a stretch. Ceci has a very high ceiling, has been a better two-way defender than Karlsson has been since his call-up. Doughty like potential but with more offence and less physicality. True story.
Well, since Ceci has been called up he's been on the ice for 17 goals for and 11 goals against (14 to 10 at ES) and is a +5. He's also got a good CF% (50.9) but his Fenwick% (53.1) is more impressive.
Meanwhile Karlsson has been on the ice for 72 goals for and 68 goals against (a less-than-exceptional 38 to 45 at ES) and is a -12. His CF% is impressive (53.9) but his FF% is not as good as Ceci's (52.8).
This is a small sample size, and while Karlsson gets more offensive zone starts and more PP time he's also facing the tougher competition (though Ceci's QoC has been rizing steadily). I don't want to make this into a Ceci vs. Karlsson topic though. Karlsson is the clear #1 defenceman for Ottawa, but Ceci has been our best and most consistent defender over the 18 game span he's been playing (based on the eye and number test, but if I weren't lazy I'd go and see what Karlsson's numbers are over the 18 game span that Ceci has been playing.)
EDIT: After a quick check Karlsson has been on the ice for 13 GF and 12 GA at ES in the last 18 games and has a CF of around 55%.
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TheBradyBunch
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I meant average offensively for him. He's very clearly far from his best offensively whereas defensively he's been making a lot of solid plays. Still a work in progress, though.
As for Ceci, I'd say he's the definition of "good, if not spectacular". He's never looked out of place, but he isn't exactly a force at this point. He's certainly been a very steadying force within the top 4
As for Ceci, I'd say he's the definition of "good, if not spectacular". He's never looked out of place, but he isn't exactly a force at this point. He's certainly been a very steadying force within the top 4
Defensively, its about the number of bad plays you make, not the number of great plays you make. A good defensive D man is noted by steadiness.
Karlsson may make a lot of good plays on D. In fact the number of good plays a game he makes far far outweighs the bad plays. But in a game where great defensive players may only make 1 or no bad plays a game, making 5 or 6 becomes glaringly obvious.
But Karlsson is what he is, an offensive D man with below average defensive skill who will never be an average D man on the defensive side of the puck. I can live with that.
