Ray Shero Hired By Lamorello To Replace Himself As GM

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Honour Over Glory

#firesully
Jan 30, 2012
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At the end of the day, Bennett has been outperformed, variously, by the likes of Brian Gibbons, Chuck Kobasew, Lee Stempniak, Jussi Jokinen, Chris Conner, Steve Downie, Andrew Ebbett and Blake Comeau. Castoffs, all of them. Wilson and Rust do not look to have either the skill/athleticism to be top 6 or the anything else to be anything else as of yet, though I suppose there's still time.

That those three are the best Shero could do between the 2nd round in 2006 and the 3rd round in 2012 is why it's going to take the Penguins years to dig out of this mess, even if Rutherford doesn't keep digging, which, so far, he is.

It's also beyond weird that you're somehow crediting Shero with Ian Cole.

I still wouldn't be judging Beau Bennett until this up coming season, injuries or not. This year was kind of ****** in that he had a rough year before with his wrist and then it was his knee this year which really ended up being "knees" and that's a tough injury for anyone to continue to play through. If he's able to rehab that in the summer and get healthy, we could still have a very solid player on our hands.

I've just been keeping an eye out for any knee surgery news, so far it seems like no surgery is needed and that's a good sign.

But yeah...

Gibbons, Kobasew, Stempniak, Jokinen, and even ****ing Conner all got more top 6 ice time than Bennett has.

That doesn't change your opinion on anything? I find that absolutely nuts.
 

billybudd

Registered User
Feb 1, 2012
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I still wouldn't be judging Beau Bennett until this up coming season, injuries or not. This year was kind of ****** in that he had a rough year before with his wrist and then it was his knee this year which really ended up being "knees" and that's a tough injury for anyone to continue to play through. If he's able to rehab that in the summer and get healthy, we could still have a very solid player on our hands.

I've just been keeping an eye out for any knee surgery news, so far it seems like no surgery is needed and that's a good sign.

But yeah...

Gibbons, Kobasew, Stempniak, Jokinen, and even ****ing Conner all got more top 6 ice time than Bennett has.

That doesn't change your opinion on anything? I find that absolutely nuts.

They all did a better job than he did in the top six. Only here is it considered strange that a player who does a worse job than someone else in the same role would find himself in that role for a shorter period of time.
 

Honour Over Glory

#firesully
Jan 30, 2012
81,443
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At this point, the Pens should just trade Beau, then watch him succeed elsewhere and blame the staff, all the ones that wanted him gone, blame the team for not keeping him.

Which is what will happen, so let it happen JR. Add him as a sweetener to a deal for a winger, whether he's the + to Sutter or someone else.
 

Hockeygod66

Registered User
Mar 25, 2007
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Most of this board was enamored with Shero up until the 2013-14 season. He even won nhl executive of the year in 2013. Looking at the signing threads, most here loved the Scuderi, Kunitz, and Dupuis signings. It's easy to criticize in hindsight. It's risky for win now teams to trade off key veterans, even if it's the right thing to do for the future. Shero gambled and lost. Shero is a smart guy, I think he'll learn from his mistakes and do well in NJ. Not to mention, if Shero getting blocked for trying to trade Letang rumor is true, it's possible he didn't have full autonomy.

That is true. JR is terrible in comparison. While Shero made some bad signings he may have traded them given the chance. His main problem was his fascination with drafting defensemen and keeping Bylsma.
 

Giskard

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Jun 20, 2008
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If Shero had fired Bylsma after the 2013 EC Final, I think he would still be the Pens GM ...
 

Honour Over Glory

#firesully
Jan 30, 2012
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Kevin Hayes,Burakovsky,Etem all playing on the third line.Drouin on the fourth line.So what's wrong with Beau Bennett on the third line?

The difference is, in those cases position wise, there is someone above them in the depth chart.

Hayes is good, but he's not better than Stepan and Brassard on that team.
Etem is good, but he's not better than Kesler or Getzlaf on the team.
Burakovsky is actually on the 3rd line because he has a lot to learn to be a better well rounded player, good move by Trotz and Drouin, he has a problem where he's super one dimensional, Cooper is trying to teach him a lesson, a kid that thought his job didn't need to be earned but rather, it should be handed to him.

On the Pens, Beau is more talented than Comeau and he's got better vision than Kunitz right now and sure as hell better than Winnik. Yet he wasn't tried there when he was healthy, so when he's gimped, it's easy to say well he's been bad, well no ****, ever hurt 1 knee? Try 2.
 

Ziggyjoe21

Registered User
Nov 12, 2003
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It's shameful how short term most of the memories are on this board.

Shero obviously wasn't perfect but he was a pretty damn good GM for most of his stint here.

-He brought in talent via trades (Kunitz, Neal, Guerin, Hossa, Iginla, Dupuis)
-He brought in talent via UFA (Martin, Michalek, Scuderi). OK maybe this one is a little bare, but the Pens always had limited cap space. And yes, Scuderi counts because he was a highly regarded UFA, and most of this board wanted him back because he apparently magically became good in LA.
-He kept talent here by re-signing the following players at least once (Sid, Geno, Staal, Letang, Neal, Fleury, Kunitz, Orpik.... aka the entire core that helped us win the cup)

This team was a legit SC contender every season Shero was the GM, so obviously many picks will be traded at the deadline. Contenders trade away picks/prospects at the deadline, that's the reality. Yet, Shero still managed to draft a respectable amount of prospects, albeit mostly Dmen. (Staal, plus Depres, Harrington, Pouliot, Maatta all have a legit NHL future). Esposito was obviously a bust but he got us Hossa. Morrow is a bust and he was traded as well. BB kind of sucks, but every one was happy at the time because Shero finally drafted a winger!

Shero is no where near as bad as this board makes him out to be. He is a good hire for NJ and will have a long tenure there.
 

Til the End of Time

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May 18, 2003
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interesting move. no time to read the whole thread, but i imagine many people are sarcastically congratulating NJ on their new gm.

if so, my response is-- people in glass houses shouldnt throw stones.

pens have one of the worst gms in the league at the helm right now.
 

Shady Machine

Registered User
Aug 6, 2010
36,719
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It's shameful how short term most of the memories are on this board.

Shero obviously wasn't perfect but he was a pretty damn good GM for most of his stint here.

-He brought in talent via trades (Kunitz, Neal, Guerin, Hossa, Iginla, Dupuis)
-He brought in talent via UFA (Martin, Michalek, Scuderi). OK maybe this one is a little bare, but the Pens always had limited cap space. And yes, Scuderi counts because he was a highly regarded UFA, and most of this board wanted him back because he apparently magically became good in LA.
-He kept talent here by re-signing the following players at least once (Sid, Geno, Staal, Letang, Neal, Fleury, Kunitz, Orpik.... aka the entire core that helped us win the cup)

This team was a legit SC contender every season Shero was the GM, so obviously many picks will be traded at the deadline. Contenders trade away picks/prospects at the deadline, that's the reality. Yet, Shero still managed to draft a respectable amount of prospects, albeit mostly Dmen. (Staal, plus Depres, Harrington, Pouliot, Maatta all have a legit NHL future). Esposito was obviously a bust but he got us Hossa. Morrow is a bust and he was traded as well. BB kind of sucks, but every one was happy at the time because Shero finally drafted a winger!

Shero is no where near as bad as this board makes him out to be. He is a good hire for NJ and will have a long tenure there.

Not every contender consistently trades away picks every year at the deadline. Also, just because we were all happy that he drafted Beau doesn't mean Shero gets a pass if Beau busts out. Shero did a nice job early on surrounding our stars with complimentary pieces. However, his overall drafting and development strategy has really hurt this team going forward. He also continued to employ a coach that was unwilling to play the young guys on defense to make drafting 8 bazillion of them worth it AND signed veteran stop gaps that his coach used over better younger players.

None of that means he is a bad GM, but he certainly isn't without his flaws. An honest look at where this team is at today will see both the good and bad Shero left behind. In terms of the prospect pool, I'd say the bad outweighs the good. Now JR has taken on the same approach as Shero only he's worse at trading. I guess one could argue that Shero did the job he did partially because of a mandate from ownership to win. That said, I still think it's on the GM to be responsible to the future when trading away picks and prospects for mediocre rentals that you don't intend on re-signing.
 

Shady Machine

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Aug 6, 2010
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interesting move. no time to read the whole thread, but i imagine many people are sarcastically congratulating NJ on their new gm.

if so, my response is-- people in glass houses shouldnt throw stones.

pens have one of the worst gms in the league at the helm right now.

So you didn't read the thread but are lecturing us based on your assumed response.
 

PensBandwagonerNo272*

Forgot About Sid
Sep 10, 2012
12,530
9
Kevin Hayes,Burakovsky,Etem all playing on the third line.Drouin on the fourth line.So what's wrong with Beau Bennett on the third line?

Drouin is a healthy scratch most of the time.

That being said, all of those teams have more depth at wing than us, so not good comparables.
 

Giskard

Registered User
Jun 20, 2008
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Alps
It's shameful how short term most of the memories are on this board.

Shero obviously wasn't perfect but he was a pretty damn good GM for most of his stint here.

-He brought in talent via trades (Kunitz, Neal, Guerin, Hossa, Iginla, Dupuis)
-He brought in talent via UFA (Martin, Michalek, Scuderi). OK maybe this one is a little bare, but the Pens always had limited cap space. And yes, Scuderi counts because he was a highly regarded UFA, and most of this board wanted him back because he apparently magically became good in LA.
-He kept talent here by re-signing the following players at least once (Sid, Geno, Staal, Letang, Neal, Fleury, Kunitz, Orpik.... aka the entire core that helped us win the cup)

This team was a legit SC contender every season Shero was the GM, so obviously many picks will be traded at the deadline. Contenders trade away picks/prospects at the deadline, that's the reality. Yet, Shero still managed to draft a respectable amount of prospects, albeit mostly Dmen. (Staal, plus Depres, Harrington, Pouliot, Maatta all have a legit NHL future). Esposito was obviously a bust but he got us Hossa. Morrow is a bust and he was traded as well. BB kind of sucks, but every one was happy at the time because Shero finally drafted a winger!

Shero is no where near as bad as this board makes him out to be. He is a good hire for NJ and will have a long tenure there.
Agree. He was one of the best GM till 2013, we always say "In Shero we Trust", then he panicked and made some bad decisions like Bylsma extension and Scuderi sign (and I was OK with it at the time except for the 4 years lenght) and some others, and now everything was $hit or so easy a caveman could do it.
 

Shockmaster

Registered User
Sep 11, 2012
16,132
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The difference is, in those cases position wise, there is someone above them in the depth chart.

Hayes is good, but he's not better than Stepan and Brassard on that team.
Etem is good, but he's not better than Kesler or Getzlaf on the team.
Burakovsky is actually on the 3rd line because he has a lot to learn to be a better well rounded player, good move by Trotz and Drouin, he has a problem where he's super one dimensional, Cooper is trying to teach him a lesson, a kid that thought his job didn't need to be earned but rather, it should be handed to him.

On the Pens, Beau is more talented than Comeau and he's got better vision than Kunitz right now and sure as hell better than Winnik. Yet he wasn't tried there when he was healthy, so when he's gimped, it's easy to say well he's been bad, well no ****, ever hurt 1 knee? Try 2.

But this is Pittsburgh. We have to reward the grinders who "wear their hard hats" and have "paid their dues."
 

Bennett Brauer

Registered User
May 1, 2011
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Pittsburgh, PA
I always liked Shero but you cannot deny that he dug us into a hole. "In Shero we trust" is something a lot of Pens fans have said over the years, and I trusted Shero...until 2013.

Shero used to be smart for us, he had a good, unwritten rule about aging hockey players. Any player 30 and older, he would only offer them a 2 year deal at most, in the Summer of 2013, He gave 33 year olds Kunitz, Dupuis and Scuderi all 4 year deals. Bad moves, I don't care that Kunitz continued to play great, look at what's happening now? Dupuis can't stay healthy, Kunitz is done and with mixed opinions on Scuderi, he's old and overpaid no matter how reliable he can be from time to time.

Then besides those free agent signings, the trades he made at the deadline to make a run were worth it at the time, BUT HIS COACH USED IT ALL WRONG! We could have iced the best team in the playoffs had Bylsma actually used guys like Jokinen and Despres instead of benching them for the likes of Tanner Glass, Craig Adams and Mark Eaton. Shero shares the blame there because he gave Bylsma those players as well and gave him full power when it came to the lineup decisions without even saying "Hey Dan, I acquired these players to play these roles, I think it gives us the best chance to win" Now we wasted SO MUCH of the future. A 1st round pick and two college prospects, two 2nd round picks (got one back for TK), a top D prospect and a 5th for a 3rd (talking futures only). All of those trades were made and none of those players were re-signed.

The following year, we had so much cap trouble, we had to start the season with Kobasew and D'Agostini as additions to a bottom six of Glass, Sutter, Vitale, and Adams. I mentioned that somewhere else and it was brought to my attention it was because of cap problems, and Shero addressed that by adding Goc. Shero traded more futures for him, a 3rd and a 5th, for a guy who has been completely useless in his time here. I like that Lapierre guy, hmm.... Anyways, more futures traded, a 3rd for Stempniak to play on Crosby's wing, I didn't mind that deal but so many traded picks add up.

Hindsight is 20/20, I know the fans don't know as much and shouldn't call the shots, but Brandon Saad was my guy from the start, he seemed the the most ideal and obvious pick any GM could make in the 2011 draft, even more obvious than EDM taking RNH 1st overall. He decided to take Morrow, which I understand why he did. He only had Despres as a top D prospect, then recently he traded Goligoski for Neal, and drafted Bennett in the previous year so maybe he wanted more defense, this was before he knew he'd have Harrington, Pouliot, and Maatta, so he picked Morrow. As much as I understand that, Saad was clearly the better player, and he's proving it. Maybe it's different if we draft him instead of Chicago, maybe we don't develop him as nicely, but every time I watch him play and score a big goal, I always thank Ray Shero for Brenden Morrow, if we would have just drafted Saad, we wouldn't have needed to give Kunitz a 4 year deal at almost $4M, we wouldn't have traded that pick for3 months of Brenden Morrow.

Bylsma should have been fired after that 2012 series, the loyalty needs to go when you're running a team who wants to win. Although I give him props for staying loyal to MAF. Another feather in Shero's cap, MAF was kept and he changed, also whoever hired Bales deserves huge marks, whether it was Shero, Bylsma, Botterill, Hynes, whoever.

So while Shero did some good things early on, don't expect me to appreciate him, he's made some hurtful moves that hurt this team moving forward, it makes me laugh that everyone is always willing to give Shero a free pass for the years, but JR comes in and people want him fired after one year, because people saw numerous years of failure by Shero and Bylsma, one rough year of JR and Johnston means we need a new GM and coach with a new vision for this team, and when that team goes out early or misses the playoffs, it will be "call for a new GM/coach every year" but that's a conversation for another thread.

I was a huge Shero fan, but his last 2 or 3 years here continue to hurt the team to this day.
 

DegenX

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Aug 14, 2011
14,622
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So you didn't read the thread but are lecturing us based on your assumed response.

Having read the whole thread, more or less ... he's not really that far off in his assumption :laugh:

With that said, it will be interesting to see what happens in Jersey over the next couple of years. How much of the reigns were actually handed over and how much money ownership is willing to spend will certainly play a part, but I think Shero will do well there.

I am a little surprised that he wound up with the Devils, though. I figured he'd return to Nashville once Poile decided to do ... well, what Lou did.
 

Bennett Brauer

Registered User
May 1, 2011
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0
Pittsburgh, PA
I find it disgusting that we asked for $'s rather than a draft pick. This organization is rotten to it's core.

Big McLargehuge has touched on this subject a lot yesterday.

He mentioned you just don't see this anymore, we won't push for it because we might want to maintain a good business relationship with other teams, this is what it's all about, it's a business and it's important to be liked by your peers. If the Pens were a greedy team and called teams asking for their best players for our scraps, demanded draft picks for hiring someone we willingly gave the boot to, it would give the Pens front office some enemies and when GMs see a 412 area code calling them, they would be less willing to do business.

It's really no big deal, I'm disappointed because I was told to have false hope about a draft pick, articles say we can have a pick (if we choose to) and I thought it was a done deal, no doubt about it we would want a pick, but then I find out it would be something that hurts our rep in the hockey world. We let Shero go, it's not like the Devils pried him away from our front office, he was fired and free to go wherever he wants. Honestly, even though he was still under contract, we shouldn't have been eligible for compensation.

Also, why wouldn't we pick money over a draft pick?! Like I said earlier, Mario and Ron are business men and they are in a business of making money, just be thankful they allow us to spend to the salary cap ceiling. We lost money with 2 playoff games at the Consol but the having a hard time to sell tickets, that $3.5M helps that. Some will say "well good they deserve to lose money" with that mindset, we'll soon be seeing bankruptcy, Mario and Ron gaining their assets back, selling the franchise and possible relocation, then people will cry about the Pens leaving and the NHL will say "well you should have bought tickets instead of turning away from your team".
 

Coastal Kev

There will be "I told you so's" Bet on it
Feb 16, 2013
17,446
5,476
The Low Country, SC
Big McLargehuge has touched on this subject a lot yesterday.

He mentioned you just don't see this anymore, we won't push for it because we might want to maintain a good business relationship with other teams, this is what it's all about, it's a business and it's important to be liked by your peers. If the Pens were a greedy team and called teams asking for their best players for our scraps, demanded draft picks for hiring someone we willingly gave the boot to, it would give the Pens front office some enemies and when GMs see a 412 area code calling them, they would be less willing to do business.

It's really no big deal, I'm disappointed because I was told to have false hope about a draft pick, articles say we can have a pick (if we choose to) and I thought it was a done deal, no doubt about it we would want a pick, but then I find out it would be something that hurts our rep in the hockey world. We let Shero go, it's not like the Devils pried him away from our front office, he was fired and free to go wherever he wants. Honestly, even though he was still under contract, we shouldn't have been eligible for compensation.

Also, why wouldn't we pick money over a draft pick?! Like I said earlier, Mario and Ron are business men and they are in a business of making money, just be thankful they allow us to spend to the salary cap ceiling. We lost money with 2 playoff games at the Consol but the having a hard time to sell tickets, that $3.5M helps that. Some will say "well good they deserve to lose money" with that mindset, we'll soon be seeing bankruptcy, Mario and Ron gaining their assets back, selling the franchise and possible relocation, then people will cry about the Pens leaving and the NHL will say "well you should have bought tickets instead of turning away from your team".

The owners OK'd all of the bad contracts including Shero's so money shouldn't be a factor.

This team is slowly being run into the ground. If not the Crosby, Malkin and Letang, our roster would be the absolute worst in the NHL.
 

Shady Machine

Registered User
Aug 6, 2010
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8,174
Is the rule the Pens can choose either a draft pick or not have to pay the rest of his contract?
 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Registered User
Sep 5, 2008
28,726
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Is the rule the Pens can choose either a draft pick or not have to pay the rest of his contract?

Yeah, from what I understand. We chose the money because of the courtesy angle. Sorta like the unspoken rule about not offer-sheeting guys. It's technically allowed, but frowned upon around the league.

But hey, maybe we're getting Shero off of payroll so we have less money tied up for when we make a run at Babcock this summer! :laugh: :sarcasm:
 
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