Ray Shero Hired By Lamorello To Replace Himself As GM

[Honour Over Glory]

That's also assuming that the Des trade was his idea. From everything he's said and I've read about Guerin and Morehouse I'm doubting that JR wanted to do that trade.

I got that feeling as well.


It seemed like everyone behind the scenes pushed for that move and Rutherford basically has no real answer for it and even admits to saying it's bad when you look past this season. If you look at the Lovejoy for Despres trade as those guys pushing for it and not Rutherford (probably got out numbered for the votes for that trade too), he's done a decent job. This team is in win now mode and made Despres the sacrifice to get more experience on the blueline, a moronic move that I think comes from above Rutherford's head and likely from one of the puppets that are the future GM/ASGM's for this franchise going forward.

 

[cassius]

Why? Because he didn't go and trade away countless prospects, picks, and sign more trash like Glass, Kobasew, and pick up studs like Pyatt?

Man, your fall from grace is harder than Bylsma's.


His worst move, and really his only bad move - Trading Lovejoy for Despres, a move where it seems like he didn't even really have much say in out of a committee of like 6 or 9 people.

Shero at least got good value when he was mortgaging the future. It wasn't too often that Shero was on the bad end of a trade. Rutherford? He's already been involved in a number of lopsided trades (where the Pens got the short end of the stick).

Lovejoy was in his only bad move? Lol..

Rutherford? He got in a bidding war over a 4th liner on the Leafs... and David Perron, both who contributed exactly 0 down the stretch. Both of those trades on a numerical scale of 1-10 are probably 5's. Just total duds. Stinkers. Awful trades.

At least when Ray mortgaged the future and loaded up at the TDL, we got production out of those guys more often than not. Iginla/Hossa were 2 hall of famers he was able to snag on the low.

We traded a ton of assets for Ben Lovejoy, David Perron, and Danniel Winnik. It hurts even typing that out. Anyways, feel free to PM me if you'd like to discuss further. I don't want to hijack this thread. Shero was a hell of a lot better GM than Rutherford though - that's for sure.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Shero's major mistake was not firing Bylsma in 2012. He doubled down on his coach and got burned, badly. His BPA/PMD drafting philosophy also proved ill-advised. Created his own logjam and then kept those players buried on the depth chart. Whitney and Goligoski had good value because they got to play. Morrow and Despres never really got that chance.

I think he wanted to turn the Penguins into the Steelers. That's why he stuck with Bylsma. That's why he became so partial to his vets.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Overpaid for Perron?

Winnik is a 4th liner now?

Shero got good value?

Lmao...

 

[Ugene Magic]

Shero was always the cautious guy, he'll fit in well with the Devils. Shero's job might have looked easy here in Pittsburgh, but those were some surmountable odds keeping things going with cap restraints and injuries. His job for me just got a whole lot easier not having such daunting tasks like managing a cap strapped team with high contracts.

NJD's/Nashville.

 

[billybudd]

It's easy to say in retrospect after we lost, but Shero made moves that should have handed us a cup final at worst. That's on Bylsma, not Shero.

I thought he did put together 2 other cup capable teams, one of them--2011--a likely winner if it had all its components.

4 contender-caliber teams in 8 years is none too shabby.

Shero is also wrongly derided for his re-signings of Kunitz and Dupuis. They were the best, most-affordable players of their type on the market that year. Far as I'm concerned, Dupuis has not demonstrated to be a problem when he's in the lineup and Kunitz is Rutherford's problem. Signing 14 wasn't the wrong move. Not trading him when the milk smelled a little sour was.

Of course, Shero's drafting--which is more important than anything else a GM does--wipes all that good will out. Between Staal and, perhaps, Sundqvist, there is not even a Tyler Kennedy level forward in that group.

Scorers are a matter of luck as much as scouting, but depth players? Those you can manufacture, provided you actually select those types with your later picks. Other than Uher, Ray never did.

Because he didn't, we scramble in the middle of the year to acquire guys like Goc or Winnik for draft picks instead of just already having players that are functionally the same. Shero's drafting is inexcusable and it's killing us.

 

[rkhum]

It's easy to say in retrospect after we lost, but Shero made moves that should have handed us a cup final at worst. That's on Bylsma, not Shero.

Yea....it wasn't Shero refused to put Iginlia at Crosbys RW, and instead played him for the first time ever at left.
The one time post Hossa they had a true 1st liner for Crosby and they dislocate him.

 

[Gurglesons]

Of course, Shero's drafting--which is more important than anything else a GM does--wipes all that good will out. Between Staal and, perhaps, Sundqvist, there is not even a Tyler Kennedy level forward in that group.

Scorers are a matter of luck as much as scouting, but depth players? Those you can manufacture, provided you actually select those types with your later picks. Other than Uher, Ray never did.

Because he didn't, we scramble in the middle of the year to acquire guys like Goc or Winnik for draft picks instead of just already having players that are functionally the same. Shero's drafting is inexcusable and it's killing us.

We will never know if Shero's draft is what killed us. He wasn't given the chance to let his picks pan out.

We went to back to back finals in 08 - 09. He still was able to pick out Despres and one of the focal points of the Iginla deal. 2010 we are cup contenders, so obviously we are trading for players to add to our roster. He still picked Beau Bennett and Bryan Rust. Two players that should've been given prominent roles this year. 2011 our entire team got hurt. We got Wilson, Harrington, and Morrow. 2012 we drafted DP, Maatta, Sundqivst, and Murray. 2013 we sold the farm and were still able to get Jarry.

Shero's bad drafting is so ****ing over exaggerated on here it is ridiculous.

Next year our line up is most likely going to be

Kunitz - Crosby - Hornqvist
Perron - Malkin - X
Spaling - Sutter - Bennett
Wilson - X - Rust

Maatta - Letang
Pouliot - Lovejoy
Scuderi - Cole

So, Bennett, Wilson, Rust, Maatta, Pouliot, and Lovejoy were all drafted or signed as unsigned players by Shero.

Spaling, Hornqvist, Sutter, and Cole were all brought into our system due to Shero moves. He drafted Staal and Bort and made the trade that brought Nisky and Neal into our system.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Shero's downfall was that he went off the deep end some time around when the Pens went insane against the Flyers and his past actions (Shero-ness) caught up with him with the forward situation throughout the org. Who's to say if some time off fixed any of that, the same goes for Bylsma.

If Bylsma and Shero end up together again I'll never stop laughing.

 

[SEALBound]

We will never know if Shero's draft is what killed us. He wasn't given the chance to let his picks pan out.

We went to back to back finals in 08 - 09. He still was able to pick out Despres and one of the focal points of the Iginla deal. 2010 we are cup contenders, so obviously we are trading for players to add to our roster. He still picked Beau Bennett and Bryan Rust. Two players that should've been given prominent roles this year. 2011 our entire team got hurt. We got Wilson, Harrington, and Morrow. 2012 we drafted DP, Maatta, Sundqivst, and Murray. 2013 we sold the farm and were still able to get Jarry.

Shero's bad drafting is so ****ing over exaggerated on here it is ridiculous.

Next year our line up is most likely going to be

Kunitz - Crosby - Hornqvist
Perron - Malkin - X
Spaling - Sutter - Bennett
Wilson - X - Rust

Maatta - Letang
Pouliot - Lovejoy
Scuderi - Cole

So, Bennett, Wilson, Rust, Maatta, Pouliot, and Lovejoy were all drafted or signed as unsigned players by Shero.

Spaling, Hornqvist, Sutter, and Cole were all brought into our system due to Shero moves. He drafted Staal and Bort and made the trade that brought Nisky and Neal into our system.

Sadly...likely. Insert Kapanen into Geno's wing, or bump Spaling up and slot Sundqvist into the 4C.

Sucks...but far more likely than the lofty goals on the off season thread.

Shero's downfall was that he went off the deep end some time around when the Pens went insane against the Flyers and his past actions (Shero-ness) caught up with him with the forward situation throughout the org. Who's to say if some time off fixed any of that, the same goes for Bylsma.

If Bylsma and Shero end up together again I'll never stop laughing.

That would have been the perfect time to do a lot of things. There was a terrific chance to turn things around...and we didn't.

 

[Gurglesons]

Sadly...likely. Insert Kapanen into Geno's wing, or bump Spaling up and slot Sundqvist into the 4C.

Sucks...but far more likely than the lofty goals on the off season thread.

I'd rather them go into the year like that and then try and fix it rather than sign any of the ****** players we could in UFA. The only interesting one is Petry if we let Scuds or Lovejoy go and with how Markov is playing no way they are going to let Petry walk.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

We will never know if Shero's draft is what killed us. He wasn't given the chance to let his picks pan out.

We went to back to back finals in 08 - 09. He still was able to pick out Despres and one of the focal points of the Iginla deal. 2010 we are cup contenders, so obviously we are trading for players to add to our roster. He still picked Beau Bennett and Bryan Rust. Two players that should've been given prominent roles this year. 2011 our entire team got hurt. We got Wilson, Harrington, and Morrow. 2012 we drafted DP, Maatta, Sundqivst, and Murray. 2013 we sold the farm and were still able to get Jarry.

Shero's bad drafting is so ****ing over exaggerated on here it is ridiculous.

Next year our line up is most likely going to be

Kunitz - Crosby - Hornqvist
Perron - Malkin - X
Spaling - Sutter - Bennett
Wilson - X - Rust

Maatta - Letang
Pouliot - Lovejoy
Scuderi - Cole

So, Bennett, Wilson, Rust, Maatta, Pouliot, and Lovejoy were all drafted or signed as unsigned players by Shero.

Spaling, Hornqvist, Sutter, and Cole were all brought into our system due to Shero moves. He drafted Staal and Bort and made the trade that brought Nisky and Neal into our system.

You have to take into account the amount of time it took these guys to be ready (if they even are). DP over FF or Truba, for example, cost the Pens 2 or more years.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

You have to take into account the amount of time it took these guys to be ready (if they even are). DP over FF or Truba, for example, cost the Pens 2 or more years.

Yep. Morrow over Saad. Bennett was a reach. Samuelsson was a pick we grabbed because of his last name.

And as for Shero "picking out" Despres, the guy was considered to be a guy to go around 10th. The fact that he fell to us was fortunate, to say the least.

 

[plaidchuck]

He will probably do well with rebuilding. It was keeping a successful team fresh and hungry that he failed at here.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yep. Morrow over Saad. Bennett was a reach. Samuelsson was a pick we grabbed because of his last name.

And as for Shero "picking out" Despres, the guy was considered to be a guy to go around 10th. The fact that he fell to us was fortunate, to say the least.

Love how you use that argument with Despres and then don't see how that relates to Forsberg and Saad.

Saad is one of the only players I will ever give Shero **** about not drafting.

 

[Jacob]

He will probably do well with rebuilding.

Not unless he starts drafting & developing better.

 

[The Greatest 101]

I can't believe some people still try to defend Shero's drafting.

 

[Gurglesons]

You have to take into account the amount of time it took these guys to be ready (if they even are). DP over FF or Truba, for example, cost the Pens 2 or more years.

You mean like how the Hawks and Ducks were really bad after their cup wins and missed the playoffs / barely made it? After the Hawks won in 2010 they got knocked out by the Canucks after barely making the playoffs (they only made it because Dallas lost). Then they got knocked out by the Coyotes in 5. So, you know.. it took two or three years to develop the players that won them that second cup.

If you want a line-up of drafted players, you have to wait for them. That is how the model works. Red Wings did it. Hawks did it. Pens are just now doing it, but we have no forward prospects that'll fit in the top six outside of Bennett.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Love how you use that argument with Despres and then don't see how that relates to Forsberg and Saad.

Saad is one of the only players I will ever give Shero **** about not drafting.

It's not an argument for Despres. It's simply fact. Look back to the consensus draft rankings in 2009 if you want. Despres was a guy slotted to go around 10th. It's not like Shero found some hidden gem that nobody noticed in the 1st round. We just got lucky that a highly touted prospect, who was a defensemen from Canada, fell to us. The stars aligned for Shero.

 

[Jacob]

Considering how Disco Dumbass used Iggy, I'm all for that. Morrow, Agostino, Hanowski, and a 1st would have helped this Org 100 times more that Iggy and Morrow did.

Well, in hindsight, obviously. I guess even Shero didn't know that Bylsma would misuse them as he did. Shero's undueing was giving Bylsma too much autonomy and too long a leash. Any other GM would've grabbed their coach and said "hey, I got Iginla to play his natural position with Sid, do it or you're fired."

 

[Gurglesons]

It's not an argument for Despres. It's simply fact. Look back to the consensus draft rankings in 2009 if you want. Despres was a guy slotted to go around 10th. It's not like Shero found some hidden gem that nobody noticed in the 1st round. We just got lucky that a highly touted prospect, who was a defensemen from Canada, fell to us. The stars aligned for Shero.

No. The draft is mainly a crap shoot. It is why a team like Washington gave up on a player like Forsberg and traded him for Erat. Shero picked Despres. Shero is responsible for picking Despres. So, Shero picked Despres and that was a great pick at #30.

 

[Gurglesons]

I can't believe some people still try to defend Shero's drafting.

It isn't about defending his drafting. With the picks that Shero had he made some remarkable picks. They may not be top six forwards (which is what our team desperately needs right now), but some of those defenseman are going to be essential parts of the teams they are with now. Muzzin, Despres, Pouliot, Morrow, Maatta, and Harrington are all going to be effective NHL players. We also have plenty of players that could be solid bottom six players in Rust, Sundqvist, and Wilson as well as potentially two great goaltenders in Murray and Jarry.

I wonder how people will feel about the Hawks when Hossa's play drops off when they have to unload one of Bickell, Shaw or Sharp and how Saad does after he signs the ticket which makes him paid like an actual top six player.

People also tend to forget the reason we lost in 2010 was our defense. It would make sense to draft defense, especially when you look at the fact that Gonchar and Orpik were our best defenseman at that point. Shero was probably figuring he'd be able to get one big time UFA winger to come and play with Malkin or Crosby.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

You mean like how the Hawks and Ducks were really bad after their cup wins and missed the playoffs / barely made it? After the Hawks won in 2010 they got knocked out by the Canucks after barely making the playoffs (they only made it because Dallas lost). Then they got knocked out by the Coyotes in 5. So, you know.. it took two or three years to develop the players that won them that second cup.

If you want a line-up of drafted players, you have to wait for them. That is how the model works. Red Wings did it. Hawks did it. Pens are just now doing it, but we have no forward prospects that'll fit in the top six outside of Bennett.

I seem to forget when the Ducks and Hawks started handing out contracts to guys over 30 like candy and never letting their kids play.

 

[hooverdam]

You mean like how the Hawks and Ducks were really bad after their cup wins and missed the playoffs / barely made it? After the Hawks won in 2010 they got knocked out by the Canucks after barely making the playoffs (they only made it because Dallas lost). Then they got knocked out by the Coyotes in 5. So, you know.. it took two or three years to develop the players that won them that second cup.

If you want a line-up of drafted players, you have to wait for them. That is how the model works. Red Wings did it. Hawks did it. Pens are just now doing it, but we have no forward prospects that'll fit in the top six outside of Bennett.

And who's fault is that? You have to draft the prospects before you can wait for them, that's what everyone's criticizing Shero for.

 

[Gurglesons]

I seem to forget when the Ducks and Hawks started handing out contracts to guys over 30 like candy and never letting their kids play.

Because, letting the kids play was on Shero?

Also, he only handed out three contracts to players over 30.

I really don't want to list the amount of players over 30 the Ducks signed up until this year when they still signed Clayton Stoner and traded picks for a player they are scratching every game.