Trapper
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- Nov 21, 2013
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Rasmus Sandin Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Jimmy Firecracker
- Start date
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I can't see any team thinking it's worth it for a late first round defenceman who hasn't really established himself in the NHL yet. As someone else mentioned above, offer sheets are so rare, and when they happen they are usually for higher profile players.
I'm lukewarm on Sandin but I hate the idea of moving one of their few young players for a pick. I know I keep saying they need more picks but this isn't quite what I have in mind.
justashadowof
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An offer sheet has to do two things:
1. Offer a salary that is well beyond what the original team wanted to pay the player
2. Be in a range of compensation that is tempting to accept
A $4M aav offer is only one of those two things.
1. Offer a salary that is well beyond what the original team wanted to pay the player
2. Be in a range of compensation that is tempting to accept
A $4M aav offer is only one of those two things.
justashadowof
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If a player's representative makes a big ask while threatening to shop for offer sheets you have to consider preemptively shopping the player as an RFA. And after that maybe it'll be time to reconsider whether you can and you will when you're losing your pretty good young defenseman because he won't drink the take-the-discount Koolaid.
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ShaneFalco
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Why wouldn’t a team like Detroit? They are on the Leafs’ heels and should be competing for a playoff spot in a season or two. If they believe Sandin could work, why not try and get him?
The worst case scenario is they get a good player, the best case they mess up a fragile team. If they don’t win a round next year…..
ToneDog
56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Seems to be an agreement between GMs not to screw each other over with OS. We saw how pissed off Carolina was when retaliated against the Aho OS.
PromisedLand
I need more FOOD
If Sandin's gameplan is to delay signing until perhaps an offersheet is presented, then Leafs would do better to trade him to get something better than the 2nd round pick from that "one team".
Right now Leafs have more options compared to if they wait only to see Sandin get an offersheet, he signs it and leafs have no other way but to take the 2nd and move on.
Other teams obviously will know this and play some hardball; but even then you can up the ante with 2 to 3 teams competing for Sandin in a trade to get a bit more out.
I don't blame Sandin btw....
Rielly, Muzzin, Gio has taken the left side
then whether you like it or not as fara s Dubas/Keefe are here on the right side the ranking is:
- Brodie, Holl, Liljegren/Sandin
Right now Leafs have more options compared to if they wait only to see Sandin get an offersheet, he signs it and leafs have no other way but to take the 2nd and move on.
Other teams obviously will know this and play some hardball; but even then you can up the ante with 2 to 3 teams competing for Sandin in a trade to get a bit more out.
I don't blame Sandin btw....
Rielly, Muzzin, Gio has taken the left side
then whether you like it or not as fara s Dubas/Keefe are here on the right side the ranking is:
- Brodie, Holl, Liljegren/Sandin
- Dec 12, 2017
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Not that Yzerman would want Dubas out of the Atlantic but he could give him a pretty good jab.
ToneDog
56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
The Leafs have messed it up as far as Sandin goes. The Leafs are still high on him while the rest of the league are not so much. As such they have to convince him that he has a future here.
They are trying to sign him to a bridge deal without any guarantee that he will play much during that deal and as such once that deal ends, he will not have much leverage.
- Dec 12, 2017
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The Leafs are so fragile on D that they could be eliminated from contention in two weeks.
Gary Nylund
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Why have we messed it up? We're high on him, but he's the guy playing hockey and has yet to convince the league or the Leafs that he's still the real deal. He's trying to establish himself as an NHL'er and if he thinks he's worth a big contract at 22, he needed to do a lot more than 16 points in 51 games as a PP specialist.
Meanwhile Liljegren plodded along, developing quietly and then stole a job when the opportunity arose. Then, job in hand he signs a two year deal @1.4m. What has Sandin done better than Liljegren to earn that second contract? It's certainly not defensive acumen, and Liljegren's 23p in 61 games with next to no PP time blows Sandin out of the water. Sandin is still only 22 and we shouldn't be giving up on him for the same reasons we didn't give up on Liljegren last year, but all of this talk about his contract is built entirely on hype from two/three years ago.
He's an RFA. We don't have to convince him of a damn thing. We've given him 84 games of NHL experience to audition and win a job, but he hasn't secured anything more than that 3rd pairing PP specialist role. If the rest of the league doesn't value him, it sounds like nobody is going to offersheet him and that means we're keeping him. The Leafs haven't messed anything up, it's a prospect who's overplaying his hand based on hype from a few years ago.
justashadowof
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From Sandin's perspective, he's had that knee injury that puts things in perspective. His pro hockey could be fleeting and he may want to maximize his compensation as early as possible. We can often forget that this is their living and for many of them their best chance to make serious money in their lifetimes.
ToneDog
56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
So why is he not signing the same deal as Lily ?? IMO he believes he is the better dman of the two and the Leafs feel the same way. The difference is Lily is a RHD.
I believe Sandin won a job and was given PP time before his injury. Perhaps he has some ill feelings that he was not given his job back after returning from his injury ?
How is it that the guy thinks he's worth term and money, but can't secure a roster spot when he's got a 39 year old Giordano and Muzzin coming off some brutal injuries? I mean, I don't think he's going to secure that roster spot either, but that sounds like there's a deficiency in the player and he still needs to develop further to be worth that kind of contract. Lots of you guys bemoan the big4 contracts and harken for the days of Lou strong arming RFA's. What kind of deal do you think Lou would sign Sandin to?
1m x 1y, or 1.2m x 2y. It's a better deal than signing his QO, which is the other option. If he wants to sign an offersheet he's welcome to see what the league will pay for a 3rd pairing PP specialist. He'll be right there with Erik Brannstrom, Adam Boqvist, Nic Hague, our very own Sean Durzi, and Oliver Kylington. A real murderer's row, I tell you. If you're going to throw out an offersheet, it's at Noah Dobson, not one of the half dozen guys who have yet to separate themselves from the pack.
This team is trying to win championships and having a young talent like Sandin as our #7 is something that we want. And as a team trying to win championships, overpaying our prospects based on hype is exactly the thing that we don't want. If the sky falls and he is offersheeted then Dubas would be challenged to figure it out, but frankly I think losing the defensive depth this year is a bigger concern than losing the actual player. I still like Sandin's upside, but he has yet to become a relevant roster player who is worth planning around.
1m x 1y, or 1.2m x 2y. It's a better deal than signing his QO, which is the other option. If he wants to sign an offersheet he's welcome to see what the league will pay for a 3rd pairing PP specialist. He'll be right there with Erik Brannstrom, Adam Boqvist, Nic Hague, our very own Sean Durzi, and Oliver Kylington. A real murderer's row, I tell you. If you're going to throw out an offersheet, it's at Noah Dobson, not one of the half dozen guys who have yet to separate themselves from the pack.
This team is trying to win championships and having a young talent like Sandin as our #7 is something that we want. And as a team trying to win championships, overpaying our prospects based on hype is exactly the thing that we don't want. If the sky falls and he is offersheeted then Dubas would be challenged to figure it out, but frankly I think losing the defensive depth this year is a bigger concern than losing the actual player. I still like Sandin's upside, but he has yet to become a relevant roster player who is worth planning around.
Martin Skoula
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So we had the Liljegren offer sheet, now Sandin. Who's next to get totally 100% offersheeted once Sandin signs for 2x1.5? What if other GMs conspire to take advantage of our "cap hell" and offer sheet all our players at the same time? It's a real threat and you and the talking heads gotta take it super seriously.
He should sign the Lily deal if it's on the table. Frankly I think he'd be insane not to because I think the next offer is coming in lower.
He played his last game of the season on March 19th and we traded for Giordano on the 20th, which effectively ended his season. He's welcome to be as salty as he likes, but idk why anyone cares what the 22 year old thinks about his ice time. He was given 51 games to prove that he was indispensable, but we're a team trying to win cups and he's just not there yet. The biggest difference between Sandin and Liljegren is that Liljegren is actually good defensively, produces more offense (almost entirely at ES), and has won the trust of his coach in big situations. RHD certainly helps, but if Sandin was playing like Liljegren we might not have traded for Giordano in the first place.
I can feel for Sandin thinking that he'll have a hard time getting minutes this year because I think it's true. But he's got nothing to blame other than his own development curve. The Leafs' #1 priority is winning right now, not prospect development. He's a good player and we want him as our #7 this year, both to give him another chance to win his job back and as cheap, high quality depth. But at the same time, if he doesn't think he can steal minutes from some combination of Holl, Gio, or Liljegren then he's sure as hell not worth any kind of real money.
- Dec 12, 2017
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Losing the depth and hindering the Leafs chances at winning a playoff round is exactly why I think a team might OS Sandin.
Dubas has to shore up the D unit and take away what little leverage Sandin‘s agent thinks he has.
I'm not sure Kyle's drafting is as good as it's cracked up to be. Surely we would see some great offers for Sandin, if that's the case?
Dude, Sandin is our #7.
Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Liljegren
Gio-Holl
Sandin
Okay, I know that most people don't like Justin Holl, but you're going to have to explain to me why a GM is going to overpay our #7 as their mastermind move. What leverage does Sandin have? Oh no, he goes somewhere else and we have to spend the cap space on someone else who can provide 16 points in 51 games from the 3rd pairing PP spot.
If Sandin wanted leverage he should have played better. If his only leverage is the hype from three years ago, that's not leverage. That's fan hype, which is not what drives contract signings. And when it does, we bitch about it endlessly for the next five years.
kb
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Yes, and if our #7 is so ripe for an offer sheet, I guess the D is in great shape after all.
They do love to speak out of both sides of their mouths!
"Our D is weak!!" followed by
"Someone is going to offersheet our #7!!!"
