It gets really tricky when you have a 32 thought deadline and only have 29 thoughts at the 11th hour.
Rasmus Sandin Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Jimmy Firecracker
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What we're hearing on the Maple Leafs: Protecting picks, a goalie search and a logjam on D
General manager Kyle Dubas heads into draft week with some very clear needs, minimal cap space and a few key free agents who will leave.
theathletic.com
I believe the issue with moving Muzzin, from the front office’s perspective, is how do you replace what he, specifically, does? Sheldon Keefe spoke a lot when Muzzin was injured late last season about how much they missed his presence in front of the net and how often other teams were scoring “easy” goals from tough areas on the ice. That physicality, defensive awareness and experience is what they value with him.
Muzzin played well enough in the postseason that the Leafs believe there’s enough juice left in those legs for one more go, albeit in fewer minutes than the 22 per game he played in Round 1 against the Lightning.
That said, I can certainly see a world where Muzzin is moved — either in-season or next summer. His contract is heavily frontloaded, and he would have value on a budget team, given there is just $6 million in salary left to be paid over the final two years of the deal.
Muzzin’s no-trade clause also relaxes significantly on July 1, 2023, although the McDonagh situation highlights just how simple it can be for GMs to sidestep NTCs.
How that plays out is really going to depend on how Muzzin plays in the first half.
What’s interesting is that keeping Muzzin and bringing back Mark Giordano creates a logjam at left defence. That, to me, is directly related to what Friedman called “a trickier situation than the Maple Leafs hoped or wanted” when it comes to Rasmus Sandin’s next contract.
This is one that has been simmering in the background for a while, but, my read on this is, essentially, Sandin wants a shot at a prominent role. He’s wanted it for a while, too. For a variety of reasons — the pandemic being No. 1 — his 2020-21 season ended up being a mess. Even last season was frustrating with the late-season injury taking him out of the lineup, despite a very strong showing on the third pair for more than 50 games.
So, with all of these veterans in front of him, now what? Does he get moved to the right side? Does he want to be?
Will he play in the top four there, given his competition is T.J. Brodie, Timothy Liljegren and Justin Holl, at the moment?
That question is possibly even more pressing given I was recently told the Leafs remained interested in bringing back Ilya Lyubushkin, yet another RD, who is set to become a UFA on July 13. (My expectation is he’ll be priced out of their range on the open market.)
There seems to be a lot more unsettled on the Leafs blue line than it appears at first glance, especially when you factor in how tight the budget is to make upgrades in goal and up front. Holl feels like the most likely option to be moved, but however it shakes out, the Leafs have to make sure Sandin feels wanted and valued.
He’s only 22 and clearly has a lot of upside. He’s also a scary offer sheet target, at least in a theoretical world where teams actually go after cap-strapped rivals like Toronto.
As much as you can understand the reasoning behind bringing back Muzzin and Giordano, at some point, you have to punch a hole if you think Sandin is going to be a good NHL defenceman in the near future.
Especially given he remains cost controlled to the point his second contract shouldn’t come in too far off what Timothy Liljegren just signed for.
Jimmy Firecracker
Backcheck, Forecheck, Paycheque.
Sandin’s agent is Lewis Gross. The same f*** that had Nylander hold out until the last minute before finally signing for the season. If that’s who we’re dealing with this contract negotiation could drag out for a long time. Gross had success before here with this tactic and obviously feels emboldened to try it again.
Sandin obviously isn’t the same level of player as Nylander was at the time of his contract but Gross won’t care. If a $4 million AAV is what Sandin could get via offer-sheet that’s probably what he’s demanding in a contract from the Leafs. Let’s not forget that at the time Nylander also signed for more than what he was worth based on comparable players and contracts, and has only recently surpassed it and is now on a good value contract.
I’m being extremely pessimistic here and I hope I’m proven dead wrong and Sandin signs for his actual value based on what he’s accomplished, but I’m not holding my breath.
Sandin obviously isn’t the same level of player as Nylander was at the time of his contract but Gross won’t care. If a $4 million AAV is what Sandin could get via offer-sheet that’s probably what he’s demanding in a contract from the Leafs. Let’s not forget that at the time Nylander also signed for more than what he was worth based on comparable players and contracts, and has only recently surpassed it and is now on a good value contract.
I’m being extremely pessimistic here and I hope I’m proven dead wrong and Sandin signs for his actual value based on what he’s accomplished, but I’m not holding my breath.
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I am assuming we won't have to wait it out willy style because he'll get offer sheeted.
People love f***ing with us (see the waiver claims) And he's a pretty easy offer sheet AS even 3.5 mil puts a lot of pressure on us
613Leafer
Registered User
- May 26, 2008
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Whether you keep Muzzin or not, you're probably trying to replace what he does in the top 4. I just can't see him continuing to play quality top 4 minutes at his age, with his injury history, etc going forward.What we're hearing on the Maple Leafs: Protecting picks, a goalie search and a logjam on D
General manager Kyle Dubas heads into draft week with some very clear needs, minimal cap space and a few key free agents who will leave.
I believe the issue with moving Muzzin, from the front office’s perspective, is how do you replace what he, specifically, does?
Concerning that it's coming out that we're like "how can we replace Muzzin even if we can get rid of him"
He had a major injury last year and is getting older. This should have been something we were at least thinking about
Why do we have a 100 million dollar analytics department and a massive scouting staff if we can't answer that question.
Hopefully that thought process is media BS because if not holy shit are we wasting our time. Sometimes it seems like hope and pray is our organizational philosophy
If we were to move Muzzin there are defencemen available in UFA/Trade that can definitely replace his impact that play a heavy game. I don't get it.
I would assume it's media click bait or the team leaking it so he won't get trashed for not waiving the nmc. If not it's not the best of signs
The only two players that you can say on this team "how am I going to replace his" are AM and Mitch
Every other person on the roster you should at least have options to replace with
Da issue with Sandin is real simple .. Leafs see him at same level and price as Lily and Sandin thinks he is worth a lot more .. if Sandin could skate then hell yeah he would command what he wants .. but fact is when you are 7th in a race down ice out of 7 D you aren't commanding .. this kid will end up being traded
WTFMAN99
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- Jun 17, 2009
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Trapper
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Those are the only 2 forwards on the team that should be high paid.
Every other forward should be from the 5 mil or less category.
A1LeafNation
Good, is simply not good enough!
- Oct 17, 2010
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They can literally ice a dcore until he signs...
Rielly Brodie
Muzzin Holl
Giordano Liljegren
Leafs hold all the cards here.
Rielly Brodie
Muzzin Holl
Giordano Liljegren
Leafs hold all the cards here.
I think he's relatively easy to replace as well. That's why I was confused about the quote from the story above.
He can sign his QO if he wants. He's not played well enough to force his way into an elite blueline and we're not going to trade him because we still like the upside. We're certainly not going to be trading any of the better players in front of him, so I don't really see what his plan is here. I suspect he'll sign a short term deal like Liljegren's because he needs that for arbitration anyways and it's more money than the QO.
I'm a fan of the upside, but he needed to take a much bigger step forward if he's going to be an everyday top4 player for us.
I'm a fan of the upside, but he needed to take a much bigger step forward if he's going to be an everyday top4 player for us.
After the Tampa trade maybe it's time for us to finally try to get JT to waive
He won't sign the QO because there's a better then average chance he's getting offer sheeted
Meh not really he gets 3 or 4 x 3.5 as an offer sheet do we have the flexibility to match?
A1LeafNation
Good, is simply not good enough!
- Oct 17, 2010
- 27,933
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A1LeafNation
Good, is simply not good enough!
- Oct 17, 2010
- 27,933
- 18,185
I would match, but can't see a team offers heating him. Doesn't make too much sense.
You get a high potential D man who will also play in your top 6 this year for a second on a reasonable contract.
Seems a pretty easy decision
If he signs an offersheet then we likely match it. If it's something crazy that we can't match and we end up letting him walk for a crappy draft pick, that's a drag, but he's simply not important enough to plan around. I like the guy's upside, but he is not even close to sniffing 4m in value and good luck to the team that offers him that.
Say he gets offered 3 to 3.5 mil by 4 or something
That's relatively ok value ( still an over pay a bit obviously)and you either get him for a 2 or it force us to spend 1.5 to 2 mil a year more then we want on him
If I'm an opposing GM I 100% pull the trigger on that
Sandin should be the rights were working on shopping not Mik
tmlfan98
No More Excuses #MarnerOut
Let's face it everyone, Barb Underhill is retired and Sandin is already undersized. Those 2 things are working against him being an effective defender in a playoff setting. With the skating whisperer gone, I think it's probably for the best that Dubas looks to sell high on him now, before his development reaches the point of "underwhelming relative to how high his upside seemed to be initially."
The highest impact he would probably have at this point is playing in the Pacific division, where skating matters the least.
The highest impact he would probably have at this point is playing in the Pacific division, where skating matters the least.
A1LeafNation
Good, is simply not good enough!
- Oct 17, 2010
- 27,933
- 18,185
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