Rasmus Sandin Discussion Thread

[Menzinger]

Just a refresher about his track record to date:
-Most productive 18 year old defenseman in AHL history, ahead of guys like Lindholm/Seider/Liljegren/Voynov
-2nd most productive 19 year old AHL defenseman right after John Carlson
-WJC top defenseman
-Good results in the NHL as a 21 year old

There's definitely some concerns due to his limited NHL track record in the top 4 and injury history, but it's not worth losing a player like him for nothing over a minor contract dispute

He'll almost certainly end up with something like the Liljgren contract when this is all over.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

He'll almost certainly end up with something like the Liljgren contract when this is all over.

I hope so. But I think ultimately it's more about his role on the team than the contract itself. Why sign a bridge deal knowing he'll be blocked in the lineup and not be able to increase his value for his next deal? Dubas does seem pretty good at relating to his players so maybe he'll be able to pull it off

 

[Leafsfan74]

Only bad thing is Holl being in the lineup. He’s a disaster. Not impressed with Sandin holding out either.

Maybe he's trying to emulate countryman Nylanders approach.

Unlike Nylander who I would have traded when he held out, I'd try to keep Sundin only because his contract won't be as expensive. If a premium offer appears that makes sense though, you trade him.

Resigning would be the first choice but Leafs can't capitulate to every RFA.

 

[BertCorbeau]

It’s still a bit baffling that he can’t accept a deal like Liljegren…. Leverage is really not in his favour.

No point in trading him though over this

 

[Menzinger]

I hope so. But I think ultimately it's more about his role on the team than the contract itself. Why sign a bridge deal knowing he'll be blocked in the lineup and not be able to increase his value for his next deal? Dubas does seem pretty good at relating to his players so maybe he'll be able to pull it off

I think that's probably the case. But refusing to sign a contract at the end of the day hurts the player a lot more than it does the team - which is why I don't expect this to go on for too much longer.

As you said Dubas' generally seems good at being able to relate to players which I think will also help get that contract signed

 

[andora]

I dont remember much about nylanders holdout.. how was the consensus back then? Screw him let him sit? Or due to talent do anything to get a deal done?

Sandin has the same agent correct?

 

[SeaOfBlue]

The Leafs can afford to let him sit for as long as he needs.

We have 6 very strong defensemen, and while we could stand to add a guy to play #7, we can survive with Mete or Benn (or a decent waiver claim) there for the time being.

I don't think the Leafs trade him unless they get a guy like Hayton in return, and I would hope it does not come to a trade because he can be an important part of this team going forward.

 

[cupcrazyman2]

Let him sit.We're over the cap anyway.

 

[al secord]

We can't lose him. This has Stralman vibes.

 

[TheRumble]

I don't think the issue is money. It's playing time.

Left side:

Rielly - Sandin definitely not getting in over Rielly

Giordano - Nope.

Muzzin - Probably not but IMO he should. Muzzin did not have a great season last year and is getting older.

Sandi's second contract will be a short term bridge deal which will lead into his first and likely only real chance at a payday with contract #3. It won't be much of a payday if he's a 7th dman. What he likely wants is to be on a team that gives him minutes. If the Leafs aren't that team, he's right to ask for a trade for a chance at his career.

 

[PromisedLand]

I see Sandin's point. He knows that he won't be in the top6 as LHD is pretty much set with Rielly, Muzzin and Gio. No playing time not only impacts his future career earnings as he won't have on-ice display but also hurts his development warming the seat in the press box.

I'd do the same thing if I was Sandin.

 

[rocketman588]

I hope so. But I think ultimately it's more about his role on the team than the contract itself. Why sign a bridge deal knowing he'll be blocked in the lineup and not be able to increase his value for his next deal? Dubas does seem pretty good at relating to his players so maybe he'll be able to pull it off

I think that's a bigger issue then the money tbh

Doesn't want to waste two years in the press box

 

[PromisedLand]

If Sandin holds out into the regular season, until he signs I doubt the Leafs move Holl. Otherwise one of Benn (7D) or Mete (waiver fodder) would see regular minutes until Sandin signs.

his primary contention is playing time not necessarily dollars IMO

Leafs top6 is basically set

Rielly Brodie
Muzzin Holl
Gio Liljegren
Benn

No way Keefe has the stones to do whats right for the team or accountability. Means Rielly, Muzzin and Gio will keep playing on the left side unless injuries of course. THat leaves right side.

Keefe's love affair with Holl is pretty much guaranteed that Holl is ahead of both Liljegren and Sandin. Also, dubas went on record to state that they prefer Sandin on the left side not right side.

chips are stacked against Sandin, he knows it.

P.S. yea i know holl sat first few games against tampa. but then Holl played pretty much every game after that even while making humungous mistakes (Game 6 OT winner; and plethora of giveaways in Game 7 and other games).

 

[The Iceman]

Logical thinking would be there is no way MUZZ will play a full season....unfortunately.

Patience will be rewarded.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

It's also worth noting there's a lot of RFAs still out there, many of them more high profile than Sandin. Toronto media just loves making Leaf contract disputes out to be a major issue

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Sandin needs to take this up with those that signed unprecedented dramatic overpayments. The extra money they extorted from Dubas comes directly out of their teammates pockets. People making $150 mil + in their career nickel and dimed every penny they could get at the expense of their much more "lower class" teammates. We literally call this "evil" in every aspect of society other than professional sports.

Take it up with Marner and the gang, Sandin. Convince them to wire transfer you some money. Leave Dubas and your cap hit out of it.

 

[Racer88]

Maybe he's trying to emulate countryman Nylanders approach.

Unlike Nylander who I would have traded when he held out, I'd try to keep Sundin only because his contract won't be as expensive. If a premium offer appears that makes sense though, you trade him.

Resigning would be the first choice but Leafs can't capitulate to every RFA.

He can and he will……capitulate ..

 

[Menzinger]

I see Sandin's point. He knows that he won't be in the top6 as LHD is pretty much set with Rielly, Muzzin and Gio. No playing time not only impacts his future career earnings as he won't have on-ice display but also hurts his development warming the seat in the press box.

I'd do the same thing if I was Sandin.

Though not signing a contract is going to hurt his career earnings and development even more.

I get that he may not be 100% happy, but that's just the nature of the RFA system. Guys in his position just don't have many options.

 

[Stephen]

As I've maintained from the start, not a fan of the player's approach. He needs to sign and play his way into the negotiating position he thinks he's in, and it's way too early in his career for him to be feeling like he's able to talk about career expectations without having brought something significant on the ice. But let's see what this situation looks like as camp begins.

 

[Uncus13]

but Nylandder did the same thing .....

 

[SeaOfBlue]

It's also worth noting there's a lot of RFAs still out there, many of them more high profile than Sandin. Toronto media just loves making Leaf contract disputes out to be a major issue

Barrett Hayton is still unsigned and out there. Arizona could use him, but they could arguably use a high end young LD prospect more since they just added Cooley, McBain, etc. within the last year and their best LD prospect right now is probably Moser, who is Kral-level as a prospect.

We are somewhat the opposite, where we could use a good LD prospect going forward but we have some decent ones (and Rielly as our top guy for the foreseeable future), but we don't have anyone like Hayton as a center prospect and he will be in his prime by the time we need to replace Tavares.

Same age. Hayton has more prestige, so we may need to add a sweetener, but in general I would say both have had similar trajectories thus far (including injuries). Of course he is also a Soo guy too, but that should not matter much.

Maybe Sandin + Abruzzese for Hayton + something small, and then move Kerfoot to a 3rd team for picks? Arizona gets a solid NHL-ready (or almost NHL-ready) center prospect to mitigate the loss of Hayton + Sandin. Moving Kerfoot allows us to re-sign Hayton. Hayton and Jarnkrok split center duties in the bottom 6. We get some picks to use for later. I would then sign Dronov, de Haan, Stone, Stralman, or Subban to for the #7 job (or we can sign them to a PTO and see if a decent guy hits waivers; I would not use Benn or Mete), and maybe we can even sign Sam Steel and try to rehab him on the Marlies (in the spot that Abruzzese originally would have occupied)?

Bunting - Matthews - Marner
Anderson - Tavares - Nylander
Jarnkrok - Hayton - Malgin
Engvall - Kampf - Aube-Kubel

Rielly - Liljegren
Muzzin - Brodie
Giordano - Holl
UFA/Waivers

Murray - Samsonov

 

[Uncus13]

Did anyone hear that? It's the cracks beginning to show under the boyblunder's feet.
If Malgin makes this team, it will be a long season.

 

[Maplebeasts]

Maybe he's trying to emulate countryman Nylanders approach.

Unlike Nylander who I would have traded when he held out, I'd try to keep Sundin only because his contract won't be as expensive. If a premium offer appears that makes sense though, you trade him.

Resigning would be the first choice but Leafs can't capitulate to every RFA.

The only reason Nylander got more money is because he was already a first line caliber player when his ELC was up. The situations aren't comparable.

Sandin needs to take this up with those that signed unprecedented dramatic overpayments. The extra money they extorted from Dubas comes directly out of their teammates pockets. People making $150 mil + in their career nickel and dimed every penny they could get at the expense of their much more "lower class" teammates. We literally call this "evil" in every aspect of society other than professional sports.

Take it up with Marner and the gang, Sandin. Convince them to wire transfer you some money. Leave Dubas and your cap hit out of it.

For christ's sake all of Matthews, Marner and Nylander are worth their money. JT at 11 million is the real problem.

 

[Uncus13]

No, he wasn't. Nylander took it to the leafs for what he could get. All of it.

I don't think nylander has ever been a point a game player .... most first-line players have accomplished that at some point in their first 5 seasons.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

but Nylandder did the same thing .....

With the same agent to boot. But Nylander had far more leverage than Sandin currently has. At the same age Nylander had already proven himself capable of first line production. Sandin has shown he's capable of third pairing minutes and quarterbacking a powerplay.

If Rasmus is smart he'd sign before training camp so he could be with his teammates and be ready for the season, missing time will only lead to worse results for him and a worse contract down the road.