Rasmus Sandin Discussion Thread

[justashadowof]

I see Dubas sent out the signal to the borg to start slagging Sandin.

We'll always have that preseason game in Detroit where Babcock tried to break him with 30 minutes of ice time and he didn't falter the whole night.

 

[mapleleaf979]

I'm not really sure why any team would be willing to offer sheet Sandin in the $4M aav range at this stage of his career coming off a knee injury. However if the market dictates that the player can get $4M aav, that's his market value and how can our GM or any fan honestly think Sandin is obligated to take a salary haircut for the good of the team. None of our decamillionaires worried too much about the good of the team during their contract negotiations.

4m? no chance. 88 games played in the NHL, 28 points. He has some upside based on his deception with the puck but lacks speed to be a consistent puck carrier thru out a game unless space is given. Also he gets overpowered down low. Id sign Sandin to 1.5 or 2 million at most for 2 years to further see what he is.

 

[rimshot]

Loose ship???

Sinks lips

 

[Nineteen67]

Well we lob a nice offer sheet on Seider or Edvinsson and see whose laughing.

They’ll sign their stars. They’re trying to win a Cup

 

[saffronleaf]

I understand why people may not like it, but Sandin has every right to question his role on the team. If Sandin goes somewhere else and explodes, people will rightly question why Dubas decided to bury him behind Muzzin and Giordano. Just like with Dermott, if you don't give players opportunities to advance they aren't going to want to stick around

but screw dermott, couldn't watch him after that twirl

 

[DarkKnight]

If Sandin is a “huge part” of the future of this team, you find him a spot, period. The rhetoric should match the commitment.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

If Sandin is a “huge part” of the future of this team, you find him a spot, period. The rhetoric should match the commitment.

But the keyword there is “future.” It’s vague but it doesn’t mean that he’s a big part of this team in the present. Leafs aren’t obligated to give him a roster spot or ice time.

 

[Sypher04]

I understand why people may not like it, but Sandin has every right to question his role on the team. If Sandin goes somewhere else and explodes, people will rightly question why Dubas decided to bury him behind Muzzin and Giordano. Just like with Dermott, if you don't give players opportunities to advance they aren't going to want to stick around

Dermott had his chances. He failed to seize them.

 

[DarkKnight]

But the keyword there is “future.” It’s vague but it doesn’t mean that he’s a big part of this team in the present. Leafs aren’t obligated to give him a roster spot or ice time.

And he isn’t obliged to be happy about it. He already won a spot before he got hurt, so I find that argument outdated, he isn’t a prospect.

 

[ULF_55]

But the keyword there is “future.” It’s vague but it doesn’t mean that he’s a big part of this team in the present. Leafs aren’t obligated to give him a roster spot or ice time.

Yep.
Sandin doesn't have to sign either.

 

[Sypher04]

And he isn’t obliged to be happy about it. He already won a spot before he got hurt, so I find that argument outdated, he isn’t a prospect.

He’s not obligated to be happy about it, and I think it’s fair to have questions/concerns about where you fit, but anyone in a bottom pairing rotation, and especially so with young & inexperienced players, should expect to have to win their job again in the following season. Should the team just be expected to not try to improve because he made it for ~50 games?

 

[DarkKnight]

He’s not obligated to be happy about it, and I think it’s fair to question where you fit, but anyone in a bottom pairing rotation, and especially so young/inexperienced players, should expect to have to win their job again in the following season. Should the team just be expected to not try to improve because he made it for ~50 games?

Why? Did Reilly have to keep winning his job after he got it? I’m not trying to be obtuse, I get your point, but Dubas is out there today saying how much Lil and Sandin mean to the club, so which is, unproven bubble player or guys in the mix for a cup contender?

 

[Sypher04]

Why? Did Reilly have to keep winning his job after he got it? I’m not trying to be obtuse, I get your point, but Dubas is out there today saying how much Lil and Sandin mean to the club, so which is, unproven bubble player or guys in the mix for a cup contender?

Rielly is a bit of a different case imo. But, hypothetically speaking, if we were to say they were equal players, Sandin is a victim of timing and defensive depth that we simply didn’t have when Rielly was starting out here.

I think the most relevant question would be moreso, which player between Rielly, Muzzin and Giordano is Sandin better than today? Healthy, none of them. I think it’s fair to recognize future value of Sandin, and also to say he’s important because no team plays a year without injuries, but he is in a position where he faces a lot of competition in his position and he should imo have to earn his spot, much the same way we see veteran forwards have to do the same in bottom 6 roles essentially every year.

I’m not sure how it works with all the 4 LD, which is why I think it understandable Sandin wants a clearer picture of how he fits, ultimately though, he has no real leverage.

Fwiw, I fully expect Sandin will sign for a deal that’s right in the ballpark of what we all expected and this is probably much to do about nothing really.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

And he isn’t obliged to be happy about it. He already won a spot before he got hurt, so I find that argument outdated, he isn’t a prospect.

Yeah he won a spot but times change. Giordano was acquired and Sandin got injured. Timing isn’t everything but it is a lot. Our defence today is better than it was at the start of the season. Sorry to Sandin but the Leafs weren’t going to let a recent Norris winner, even if he is 38/39, walk away when he was willing to sign for $800K

Yep.
Sandin doesn't have to sign either.

True. He can hedge his bets that some team with an open roster spot will offer him enough money to dissuade the Leafs from matching. If not, he’ll sit out losing money while the team builds chemistry come September. And no one will be freaking out about him missing playing time like we did with Willy.

 

[ULF_55]

Yeah he won a spot but times change. Giordano was acquired and Sandin got injured. Timing isn’t everything but it is a lot. Our defence today is better than it was at the start of the season. Sorry to Sandin but the Leafs weren’t going to let a recent Norris winner, even if he is 38/39, walk away when he was willing to sign for $800K



True. He can hedge his bets that some team with an open roster spot will offer him enough money to dissuade the Leafs from matching. If not, he’ll sit out losing money while the team builds chemistry come September. And no one will be freaking out about him missing playing time like we did with Willy.

He could go play in Europe.
Get top pairing ice time.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

He could go play in Europe.
Get top pairing ice time.

Yeah, but for much less than what he’d earn here if he just sucked it up and re-signed. And it’s arguable that experience as a top pairing guy in like the SHL is worth less than rotating bottom pairing minutes in the NHL, so he might not even make strides in his game.

 

[ULF_55]

Yeah, but for much less than what he’d earn here if he just sucked it up and re-signed. And it’s arguable that experience as a top pairing guy in like the SHL is worth less than rotating bottom pairing minutes in the NHL, so he might not even make strides in his game.

It doesn't sound like money is the issue.

Sounds like opportunity.

Which LD vet are they benching for him?

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

It doesn't sound like money is the issue.

Sounds like opportunity.

Which LD vet are they benching for him?

Gio since he’s old as time and I’d argue shouldn’t play every game. We don’t need another Marleau situation where a still useful vet burns himself out because of pride and an iron man streak. And Lilly too, if Sandin doesn’t find it too off-putting to play his offside. Hell maybe Gio wouldn’t mind playing his offside to let the kid get reps on his strong side.

I feel like a mountain is being made out of a molehill, and if Serevalli is correct that this is being blown out of proportion then all this talk is moot. Playing time will be found for Sandin. I really don’t think he should take such offence to not playing all 82 games next season. Hell he should take it as a compliment that it took the acquisition of a top defenseman to knock him out of the lineup.

 

[ULF_55]

Gio since he’s old as time and I’d argue shouldn’t play every game. We don’t need another Marleau situation where a still useful vet burns himself out because of pride and an iron man streak. And Lilly too, if Sandin doesn’t find it too off-putting to play his offside. Hell maybe Gio wouldn’t mind playing his offside to let the kid get reps on his strong side.

I feel like a mountain is being made out of a molehill, and if Serevalli is correct that this is being blown out of proportion then all this talk is moot. Playing time will be found for Sandin. I really don’t think he should take such offence to not playing all 82 games next season. Hell he should take it as a compliment that it took the acquisition of a top defenseman to knock him out of the lineup.

Clicks.

Likely nothing more than coming to an agreement.

He was a regular until he was injured.
He skated fast enough for 51 games until he was injured.

 

[Maplebeasts]

I don't blame Sandin for being frustrated with the Leafs. The way they've treated him is just bad for his career.

As it currently stands from Sandin's POV, the LHD in the team are Rielly, Giordano, Muzzin. He doesn't have a clear idea of how he'll get playing time going forward. Keefe doesn't seem to trust him very much despite being better than Muzzin for most of last year - that said I thought Muzzin was excellent in the playoffs.

Sandin doesn't want to sign a 2nd cost controlled contract with a team only to be a 7th defenceman.

The team if anything has been much better to Sandin than they were to other guys like Liljegren and Dermott. If Sandin really thinks his treatment is unfair he's a damned crybaby. They brought him in as an NHLer one year before Liljegren despite being the substantially weaker player at the AHL level and gave him powerplay minutes right away. If Sandin thinks he can't earn top 4 minutes over an injured Muzzin who was awful last season or a 39 year old Giordano that is a terrible look.

 

[Bomber0104]

Another managerial face-plant, entirely self-inflicted.

We have such great young players/prospects yet management won’t test them in roster spots because they’re in self-preservation mode.

This is the consequence of that.

Squandering a former first-round pick.

 

[Leaf Fans]

I see Dubas sent out the signal to the borg to start slagging Sandin.

We'll always have that preseason game in Detroit where Babcock tried to break him with 30 minutes of ice time and he didn't falter the whole night.

The borg or the board? Are you going to start slagging Sandin?

Another managerial face-plant, entirely self-inflicted.

We have such great young players/prospects yet management won’t test them in roster spots because they’re in self-preservation mode.

This is the consequence of that.

Squandering a former first-round pick.

How so?

 

[hotpaws]

this isn't about money , it's about opportunity and unless there's a trade or Sandin can play the right side there's nothing he can do to ''earn a spot'' since there's no way the team is going to sit Rielly/Gio/Muzzin to play Sandin

i doubt siting in the press box and hoping there's an injury so he can get in the lineup is something that appeals to him nor is it something that will help his development

 

[Oscar Peterson]

Hope we can get this contract sorted out soon, I really like Sandin as a player. He's a gamer and has very high-end potential, but needs to stay healthy. Dubas is right, both he and Liljegren should be both a big part of our future and regardless of handedness, both are better players than Holl and both should be playing next year even if someone's gotta play their off-side.

 

[ToneDog]

this isn't about money , it's about opportunity and unless there's a trade or Sandin can play the right side there's nothing he can do to ''earn a spot'' since there's no way the team is going to sit Rielly/Gio/Muzzin to play Sandin

i doubt siting in the press box and hoping there's an injury so he can get in the lineup is something that appeals to him nor is it something that will help his development

It is also about the money IMO. If he signs the Lily deal and mostly sits for the two years he'll have very little leverage for his next deal. Good dman but he does not bring anything that any other Leaf dman brings and he is blocked by 44,8 and 55, not to mention he does not want to play the right side.

The answer is make room for him or trade him IMO.