Rasmus Ristolainen: The $5M, 0 percentile defenseman

[FlyersFanSinceBirth]

He puts up better defensive results too. Did you know that there's more to defense than bumping into guys after they make a pass deep in your end?

For example, you can play defense in the NZ. That's something Ghost does way better than Risto, who backs up straight to his goalie the second an opposing rush begins. He has stood up the blue line exactly twice this season. I'm not sure I can remember any good NZ stops in transition. Sometimes he hampers them near their own blue line, but if they get past him he's then burned and totally out of the play.

I wouldn't expect you to remember anything good that Ristolainen has done. You don't want to see it so you choose not to.

 

[Beef Invictus]

LOL...this thread. Look, right now, Justin Braun is the best d-man on the Flyers. By far. Let that sink in...

Well, it's Sanheim followed by Braun but this really doesn't change your point. Braun should not be that high. York has too few games played still for me to lump him anywhere which is an entirely different breed of stupid on its own.

Between Fletcher's player preferences and player development, they've really accomplished a feat here.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I wouldn't expect you to remember anything good that Ristolainen has done. You don't want to see it so you choose not to.

I do remember it. I comment on it whenever it happens. It's pretty rare. It's often just him successfully completing what should be a routine play for an NHL dman but which tends to be a challenge for him.

He's at least good at activating and keeping pressure alive. There's that. That's about the only consistent thing he does, but he doesn't even do it that often. It unfortunately went wrong last game. Overall he's not actually that much better at it than Braun, as it is also Braun's sneaky-good skill. And that's not great for a supposed offensive dman.

He's unremarkable offensively and the second we back out of the offensive zone he's completely lost. Recently he takes to parking near the crease and his partner plays both sides. It's pathetic.

 

[Striiker]

LOL...this thread. Look, right now, Justin Braun is the best d-man on the Flyers. By far. Let that sink in...

Not even close.

 

[Starat327]

Its telling that the fanbois need to bring up Sanheim in the "how bad is Risto thread". Not surprised in the least.

 

[FlyersFanSinceBirth]

LOL...this thread. Look, right now, Justin Braun is the best d-man on the Flyers. By far. Let that sink in...

Prepare to be corrected for thinking any hockey player ever has ever played better than Sanheim. You gotta keep up with the trends around here. Sanheim is our best defensemen and has been for years. Second best is somehow still Ghost, even though he's gone. Before that, he was our best defenseman for years. The same years that Sanheim was. They were both our best defenseman. But they weren't tied for the title of best defenseman. Both are too good to be tied with anyone. It's very tricky.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The idea that I'm too biased to change my mind on a dman is especially funny since I've drastically changed my mind on Braun and Provorov in recent years. I base my assessment on how a player performs. If Risto played well enough to change my mind he would. He hasn't.

 

[deadhead]

Meh, Risto or Ghost, I'd rather upgrade with York.
Notice the young D-men Arizona has promoted have better metrics than all their veteran D-men.

Crazy stats, Risto has a much higher xGF/60 than Ghost 5x5 (SVA), and you can't claim he's playing with better forwards (ours suck just as much).

Ghost xGF/60: 2.24, xGA/60: 2.72, HDCA/60: 12.69, on-ice Sh% 10.08
Risto xGF/60: 2.67, xGA/60: 2.92, HDCA/60: 14.26, on ice Sh% 7.07

Neither is a D-man I want in my top 4.
Trade Risto at the TDL for what you can get and go with Provorov-Ellis, Sanheim - York next year.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Its telling that the fanbois need to bring up Sanheim in the "how bad is Risto thread". Not surprised in the least.

It's a weird move since Sanheim has carried Risto hard, and he tanks away from him.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Meh, Risto or Ghost, I'd rather upgrade with York.
Notice the young D-men Arizona has promoted have better metrics than all their veteran D-men.

Crazy stats, Risto has a much higher xGF/60 than Ghost 5x5 (SVA), and you can't claim he's playing with better forwards (ours suck just as much).

Ghost xGF/60: 2.24, xGA/60: 2.72, HDCA/60: 12.69, on-ice Sh% 10.08
Risto xGF/60: 2.67, xGA/60: 2.92, HDCA/60: 14.26, on ice Sh% 7.07

Neither is a D-man I want in my top 4.
Trade Risto at the TDL for what you can get and go with Provorov-Ellis, Sanheim - York next year.

Are you comparing stats across teams again? Without context?

You know that doesn't work right? Thats how you ended up debasing yourself by claiming Ghost is a #7 and Yandle is better. Learn.

 

[FlyersFanSinceBirth]

Are you comparing stats across teams again? Without context?

You know that doesn't work right? Thats how you ended up debasing yourself by claiming Ghost is a #7 and Yandle is better. Learn.

Now we can't compare stats across teams?

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Now we can't compare stats across teams?

Not without context, no.

 

[FlyersFanSinceBirth]

Not without context, no.

So we're gonna have to trade Laughton to Washington to finally figure out if he's a better goal scorer than Ovechkin?

 

[Nikolajs Sillers]

I am sure it has been discussed but is the dude the Sabres drafted Isak Rosen with our pick showing any promise or anybody else chosen after him in the first round for that matter? It just is so insulting how Fletcher gave so much for Fisto...

To be honest some Sabres fans not very high on Rosen. I myself feel the same.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Now we can't compare stats across teams?

Without accounting for shitloads of context? No. And that has always been the case. This isnt new.

 

[deadhead]

Are you comparing stats across teams again? Without context?

You know that doesn't work right? Thats how you ended up debasing yourself by claiming Ghost is a #7 and Yandle is better. Learn.

I never claimed Yandle was better, I pointed out that Yandle was highly sheltered, and that produced a big jump in his metrics.
Ghost was also sheltered last season (see JFresh), and that helps explain his pretty metrics as well.
Saying Ghost is better than Yandle is faint praise. He's better than Gus too.
The only Arizona D-man who'd interest me is Timmins, who they got from Colorado.

Both teams suck equally, so metrics should be tanked equally?

Ghost is getting a lot of puck luck (look at the on-ice Sh%), otherwise he's what you'd expect when you let him free lance on offense - he always made things exciting for both teams, difference was a younger Ghost could catch a lot of his mistakes, not the last few years, however.

I was happy to see Ghost go (and his $4.5M next season), I'll be happy when Risto is traded at the TDL.
Both make too much for 3rd pair D-men. Neither should be part of the Flyers' future.

 

[Beef Invictus]

So we're gonna have to trade Laughton to Washington to finally figure out if he's a better goal scorer than Ovechkin?

Or we could sort out the context.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

So we're gonna have to trade Laughton to Washington to finally figure out if he's a better goal scorer than Ovechkin?

Holy hyperbole Batman.

There are advanced stats out there that compare a player relative to his peers on their own team as the situations between two teams can be vastly different and that accounts for it.

Context is very important. Numbers can be used to say anything if you try hard enough.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I never claimed Yandle was better, I pointed out that Yandle was highly sheltered, and that produced a big jump in his metrics.
Ghost was also sheltered last season (see JFresh), and that helps explain his pretty metrics as well.
Saying Ghost is better than Yandle is faint praise. He's better than Gus too.
The only Arizona D-man who'd interest me is Timmins, who they got from Colorado.

Both teams suck equally, so metrics should be tanked equally?

Ghost is getting a lot of puck luck (look at the on-ice Sh%), otherwise he's what you'd expect when you let him free lance on offense - he always made things exciting for both teams, difference was a younger Ghost could catch a lot of his mistakes, not the last few years, however.

I was happy to see Ghost go (and his $4.5M next season), I'll be happy when Risto is traded at the TDL.
Both make too much for 3rd pair D-men. Neither should be part of the Flyers' future.

You did claim Yandle was better. You claimed he's a good third pair PP specialist and that Ghost is a #7.

Your usage of stats is equivalent to trying to distort calculus to prove that 2+2=9. It has resulted in so many wildly wrong assessments that you no longer have any credibility. You are purposefully deceitful because your only goal is defending whoever is running the team.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

I never claimed Yandle was better, I pointed out that Yandle was highly sheltered, and that produced a big jump in his metrics.
Ghost was also sheltered last season (see JFresh), and that helps explain his pretty metrics as well.
Saying Ghost is better than Yandle is faint praise. He's better than Gus too.
The only Arizona D-man who'd interest me is Timmins, who they got from Colorado.

Both teams suck equally, so metrics should be tanked equally?

Ghost is getting a lot of puck luck (look at the on-ice Sh%), otherwise he's what you'd expect when you let him free lance on offense - he always made things exciting for both teams, difference was a younger Ghost could catch a lot of his mistakes, not the last few years, however.

I was happy to see Ghost go (and his $4.5M next season), I'll be happy when Risto is traded at the TDL.
Both make too much for 3rd pair D-men. Neither should be part of the Flyers' future.

So was trading a 1st and a 2nd round pick for a third pair d-man who is paid a lot when you already had a third pair d-man who made a lot and you added a 2nd on top of him to get rid of him a good decision?

Asking for a friend.

 

[FlyersFanSinceBirth]

Holy hyperbole Batman.

There are advanced stats out there that compare a player relative to his peers on their own team as the situations between two teams can be vastly different and that accounts for it.

Context is very important. Numbers can be used to say anything if you try hard enough.

The exact same is true for advanced stats. We can all manipulate things to support our argument.

 

[Starat327]

The internet really needs to me moderated to be a privilege, not a right.

 

[Striiker]

It's a weird move since Sanheim has carried Risto hard, and he tanks away from him.

Sanheim with Risto
48.19 CF%
49.00 xGF%

Sanheim without Risto
51.52 CF%
53.47 xGF%

Risto without Sanheim
48.19 CF%
43.95 xGF%

Risto with Provorov
45.16 CF%
37.82 xGF%

This is also consistent with the rest of their careers. Sanheim consistently carries bad partners, Risto is consistently one of the worst defensemen in the league.

 

[deadhead]

Holy hyperbole Batman.

There are advanced stats out there that compare a player relative to his peers on their own team as the situations between two teams can be vastly different and that accounts for it.

Context is very important. Numbers can be used to say anything if you try hard enough.

Comparing Ghost to the dreck that is the rest of the Zona defense is pretty meaningless, he's better than the corpse of Stralman (who no one considered to be a top 4 D-man the last few years), he's playing better than Chychrun (who is their version of Risto, high draft pick who plays like a mid-round pick), he's better than Lyubushkin, a scrub's scrub, Mayo, a 25 year old rookie scrub, and 20 year old Soderstrom, who was sent back to the AHL.

Timmins, Moser and Dineen, their three young D-men, have as good or better metrics in SSS samples.

So looking at relative stats only tells you Ghost is playing better than teammates who couldn't make most NHL rosters.

 

[JVR21]

The internet really needs to me moderated to be a privilege, not a right.

If we took this post at face value and turned this into a politics thread we would likely experience a healthier and more rational discussion lol