Player Discussion Rasmus Dahlin Part 4 - D (1st Overall, 2018, Frölunda HC, SHL)

[Kyndig]

Is it time to stop making excuses for Dahlin?

Some even on this board could take a look at this post and give this kid a damn break.

Just seemed like the same 2 Finnish posters saying crap about Dahlin over and over. I threw em on my block list and just like magic, the thread disappeared.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

Read the Sabres facebook most seem to think trading him for a used bag of pucks would be an upgrade and the team will stop letting in goals and make a push for the playoffs lol. If we ever did I'd like to see him on Tampa or another great team to see what he can really do. Springing forwards that can finish with some elite passing.

On the Sabres Facebook today someone said to send Dahlin to Rochester. I pointed out that he wouldn’t clear waivers, and they said that’s fine. Like…

 

[Chainshot]

Two part question -

1) Can they un-f*** Dahlin?

AND

2) How do they un-f*** him if they can?

 

[Kyndig]

Two part question -

1) Can they un-f*** Dahlin?

AND

2) How do they un-f*** him if they can?

1. He's 21 and a defenseman. Tage Thompson was still throwing spin-o-rama no look passes in his own end when he was 23.

2. Find a better goaltender so every mistake doesn't end up in our net. This will do wonders for the mental stability of players and fans alike.

Almost all of his mistakes come on the powerplay. I'd have them running powerplay drills with someone applying a fast forecheck on him.
Also, Dahlin doesn't need to play so aggressively on the blue line, regroup and skate it back into the zone (a tough ask without Eichel). Dahlin doesn't need to make some crazy effort to keep the puck in every single time, its burning us more often than not.

 

[old kummelweck]

Two part question -

1) Can they un-f*** Dahlin?

AND

2) How do they un-f*** him if they can?

Needs to start with Granato. He has to stop making excuses for him. Adam's needs to find him a partner to groom him.

 

[HaNotsri]

Two part question -

1) Can they un-f*** Dahlin?

AND

2) How do they un-f*** him if they can?

1. Goaltending
2. Easier match ups
3. Better and faster defensive forwards, especially C

Essentially building a good team + time to build confidence and develop his game.

Playing defense on a bad team while being expected to score/create chances all the time is a recipe for disaster.

On a good team Dahlin would send the forwards in furious waves against the opposition with his passing and his defensive gaffes would be shrugged off.

 

[jc17]

Dahlins 2 biggest problems seem to be the bad plays at the blueline and ability to defend the rush. Both of these things can be coached, they just have to make an effort to do it.

This is also an area that think has gotten hypocritical analysis from fans. Ralph was hated because he made dahlin think too much and be overly conservative.

Similar to the adams thread, it seems like many people were ok with the idea of dahlin getting more freedom, which comes with mistakes, but then not happy when there are actually mistakes. Can't have it both ways, granted I guess most people could have reasonably expected fewer mistakes.

Just telling him to be less aggressive at the blueline won't lead to development. Hes got to learn to judge the right move in real time, which involves getting burned. It's not like hes going to make 10 mistakes, watch some film, and suddenly be flawless.

I don't know, he frustrates me at times but I think there's a double standard or an unrealistic idea of how he's supposed to learn

 

[member 334057]

Just telling him to be less aggressive at the blueline won't lead to development. Hes got to learn to judge the right move in real time, which involves getting burned. It's not like hes going to make 10 mistakes, watch some film, and suddenly be flawless.

I think some of that also falls onto his defensive partner and the center as well. They need to be able to see when Dahlin jumps in on a rush or tries to drive a play into the offensive zone they will need to be able to cover for him coming back the other way if play gets disrupted or results in a turnover. Pysyk seems to be the only one who has consistently been able to do this, Butcher was obviously a train wreck and Joker has been injured for 2/3rds of the games. I think in part that's why Dahlin looked so good with Bogosian his rookie year, Bogo was mostly a stay at home type so he was always looking to hang back a little and was there when Dahlin needed him.

 

[GrierIsGod123]

I think some of that also falls onto his defensive partner and the center as well. They need to be able to see when Dahlin jumps in on a rush or tries to drive a play into the offensive zone they will need to be able to cover for him coming back the other way if play gets disrupted or results in a turnover. Pysyk seems to be the only one who has consistently been able to do this, Butcher was obviously a train wreck and Joker has been injured for 2/3rds of the games. I think in part that's why Dahlin looked so good with Bogosian his rookie year, Bogo was mostly a stay at home type so he was always looking to hang back a little and was there when Dahlin needed him.

Hence why he's struggling on the PP, as there's no one there to cover for him. Olofsson's reluctance to shoot right now is leading to more passes back to the point, and thus more chances for the opposition. Teams are able to pressure the point so much right now, so they need to mix up the look and structure, as they're too predictable. It's time to re-think the PP completely and get Mitts on the half wall instead of Thompson. Mitts is a higher IQ player and a better passer. I'd take the sacrifice of losing Thompson's bomb on that side of the ice for a better, more shifty playmaker. Thompson might be better on PP # 2. They also need to start working it down low more often, which is where they really miss Sam.

Something like...

Cozens (in the Sam spot) - Murray/Girgs - (upfront where they have Skinner)
Mitts (half wall) - Olofsson (his office)
Dahlin

 

[RWatson29]

It just seems like his decision making in open ice has not improved really. He’s one of the worst Dmen I’ve ever seen skating backwards, or transitioning to back skating, and that hasn’t gotten any better since his rookie year. I’m the biggest Dahlin advocate, and I know he’s only 21 but just some of the stuff. We’ve seen for the last 3 years. Just soft play infront of the net, tripping over his feet more than I’ve seen any other nhl player, whenever he gets beat by even a step, he just stops skating and uses his stick to try and push another sabres player on the backcheck. He really needs to fix some of these things. If he even got somewhat competent defending the rush, and got better skating, I think he’ll be fine, but it looks like he’s almost giving half ass out there or something, I can’t put my finger on it

 

[Chainshot]

Dahlins 2 biggest problems seem to be the bad plays at the blueline and ability to defend the rush. Both of these things can be coached, they just have to make an effort to do it.

This is also an area that think has gotten hypocritical analysis from fans. Ralph was hated because he made dahlin think too much and be overly conservative.

Similar to the adams thread, it seems like many people were ok with the idea of dahlin getting more freedom, which comes with mistakes, but then not happy when there are actually mistakes. Can't have it both ways, granted I guess most people could have reasonably expected fewer mistakes.

Just telling him to be less aggressive at the blueline won't lead to development. Hes got to learn to judge the right move in real time, which involves getting burned. It's not like hes going to make 10 mistakes, watch some film, and suddenly be flawless.

I don't know, he frustrates me at times but I think there's a double standard or an unrealistic idea of how he's supposed to learn

Being tentative is a biggy. Don’t be dainty, go at it with gusto.

Caveat to my comment above, trying to discuss what is not working instead of just “ZOMG, he suxx!” comments regardless if he was responsible for a goal against or not.

 

[2 others]

Sorry, i couldn't ignore the Dahlin vs Byram poll, so i had to troll a bit. Keeps me sane.
I could've ignored it, but i actually couldn't. I try better next time.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

Dahlins 2 biggest problems seem to be the bad plays at the blueline and ability to defend the rush. Both of these things can be coached, they just have to make an effort to do it.

This is also an area that think has gotten hypocritical analysis from fans. Ralph was hated because he made dahlin think too much and be overly conservative.

Similar to the adams thread, it seems like many people were ok with the idea of dahlin getting more freedom, which comes with mistakes, but then not happy when there are actually mistakes. Can't have it both ways, granted I guess most people could have reasonably expected fewer mistakes.

Just telling him to be less aggressive at the blueline won't lead to development. Hes got to learn to judge the right move in real time, which involves getting burned. It's not like hes going to make 10 mistakes, watch some film, and suddenly be flawless.

I don't know, he frustrates me at times but I think there's a double standard or an unrealistic idea of how he's supposed to learn

I can deal with the offensive zone mistakes, as shitty as they are, but it’s the D-zone coverage that drives me nuts. Stop stick checking the puck. Step into the guy. Right now nobody is fearing coming down on him.

And as an aside, until Olofsson feels comfortable shooting the puck again, R2 should be in his spot.

 

[Der Jaeger]

I'd put him back on the right side, with Samuelsson on the left side. Just green light him and take the good and the bad. The good will eventually get really good, and the bad will eventually clean up.

Keith's game went to elite levels when they paired him with Hjalmarsson in 2009. Dahlin needs a shut down defender to cover for him.

 

[Chainshot]

I'd put him back on the right side, with Samuelsson on the left side. Just green light him and take the good and the bad. The good will eventually get really good, and the bad will eventually clean up.

Keith's game went to elite levels when they paired him with Hjalmarsson in 2009. Dahlin needs a shut down defender to cover for him.

I feel this is the way.

 

[Zman5778]

I'd put him back on the right side, with Samuelsson on the left side. Just green light him and take the good and the bad. The good will eventually get really good, and the bad will eventually clean up.

Keith's game went to elite levels when they paired him with Hjalmarsson in 2009. Dahlin needs a shut down defender to cover for him.

Either that or trade for some RHD shut-down guy and keep Dahlin on the left. Doesn't matter to me which they choose. Sticking him with a shutdown guy is the way, IMO.

 

[Bendium]

Lipstick on a pig boys....lipstick on a pig.

 

[Der Jaeger]

As I've said before, bookmark this thread. It'll be bump worthy in a few seasons.

 

[SabresFan26]

Our 21 year old defenseman is still on pace for 51 points on a losing team. Patience, especially with defenseman. We are going to love having him in our organization, especially when he's 25-30.

 

[Fezzy126]

Dahlins 2 biggest problems seem to be the bad plays at the blueline and ability to defend the rush. Both of these things can be coached, they just have to make an effort to do it.

This is also an area that think has gotten hypocritical analysis from fans. Ralph was hated because he made dahlin think too much and be overly conservative.

Similar to the adams thread, it seems like many people were ok with the idea of dahlin getting more freedom, which comes with mistakes, but then not happy when there are actually mistakes. Can't have it both ways, granted I guess most people could have reasonably expected fewer mistakes.

Just telling him to be less aggressive at the blueline won't lead to development. Hes got to learn to judge the right move in real time, which involves getting burned. It's not like hes going to make 10 mistakes, watch some film, and suddenly be flawless.

I don't know, he frustrates me at times but I think there's a double standard or an unrealistic idea of how he's supposed to learn

Dahlin's most egregious mistakes almost always happen when he's either playing his off-hand side (which I usually dismiss because he's out of position) or when he's overly aggressive on the opponent's blue line (his fight or flight instincts need to improve here).

Honestly, neither of those bother me all that much. My biggest frustration with Dahlin is that he has not yet figured out how to translate his skill into how to control a game. Guys that he is routinely compared to like Karlsson can look like a tire fire in their own own for long stretches, but then they completely take over the game for a period or two on route to a 3 or 4 point night. Dahlin on the other hand will walk the blueline brilliantly, completely deke two opponents, and then when he's created that time and space for himself he'll pass up an open lane to the net or drop it back to the point easing the pressure on the opponent. There's also his patented curl and drag shot from the high slot, which I thought would have improved moreso than it has by now. He really hasn't figured out out how to really put the pedal to floor yet.

I'm hoping that as the skill around him improves his play will also imrpove. I knowe that's an odd thign to say, but after all what good is a great outlet pass if your forward can't do anything with it.

I think eventually he puts it together, but I really think he needs a vet that can play in his own end and clear the net lined up next to him. Manson has been my dream target for years, but admittedly I haven't watched him at all this year to know if he's still holding up. Still, having that calming vet presence next to you can really open up your game. We saw a little bit of that when he was paired with Pysyk, but it would be nice if he was next to someone that wasn't a 3rd pairing dman.

 

[sabremike]

Dahlin's most egregious mistakes almost always happen when he's either playing his off-hand side (which I usually dismiss because he's out of position) or when he's overly aggressive on the opponent's blue line (his fight or flight instincts need to improve here).

Honestly, neither of those bother me all that much. My biggest frustration with Dahlin is that he has not yet figured out how to translate his skill into how to control a game. Guys that he is routinely compared to like Karlsson can look like a tire fire in their own own for long stretches, but then they completely take over the game for a period or two on route to a 3 or 4 point night. Dahlin on the other hand will walk the blueline brilliantly, completely deke two opponents, and then when he's created that time and space for himself he'll pass up an open lane to the net or drop it back to the point easing the pressure on the opponent. There's also his patented curl and drag shot from the high slot, which I thought would have improved moreso than it has by now. He really hasn't figured out out how to really put the pedal to floor yet.

I'm hoping that as the skill around him improves his play will also imrpove. I knowe that's an odd thign to say, but after all what good is a great outlet pass if your forward can't do anything with it.

I think eventually he puts it together, but I really think he needs a vet that can play in his own end and clear the net lined up next to him. Manson has been my dream target for years, but admittedly I haven't watched him at all this year to know if he's still holding up. Still, having that calming vet presence next to you can really open up your game. We saw a little bit of that when he was paired with Pysyk, but it would be nice if he was next to someone that wasn't a 3rd pairing dman.

I really think people don't understand how unrealistic it is to expect anyone to be able to take over a game on a consistent basis on a roster that de facto was assembled with the intent of losing lots and lots of games.

 

[Chainshot]

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

He showed tonight why he went 1OA, with glowing accolades.

In spite of his infamous defensive gaffes, his angling and pinning game in the defensive zone is so much improved.

Get rid of the casual play and the inexplicable stumbling when he needs to turn up the speed, and we'll have the Norris/All-Star caliber d-man we expected.

 

[Grinder44]

He's fine for a high-end 21 year-old D-man playing on a rebuilding team. Gonna make mistakes and have tough games, but the talent is there. I think paired back with Joker and playing in front of a goalie who makes big saves is giving him more confidence. Adding more talent (Power, Matt Sams) to the blue-line is only gonna make Dahlin more effective.

 

[GrierIsGod123]

He's fine for a high-end 21 year-old D-man playing on a rebuilding team. Gonna make mistakes and have tough games, but the talent is there. I think paired back with Joker and playing in front of a goalie who makes big saves is giving him more confidence. Adding more talent (Power, Matt Sams) to the blue-line is only gonna make Dahlin more effective.

I really think Dahlin might need to move to the right side moving forward. If Power, Bryson, Johnson and Samuelsson are all players, it might make sense. I could see Samuelsson being a long term partner.