Larry Brooks: Rangers will be selling

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Is it not the same influence or not the same relative influence? In other words goaltending is important but it seems that the elite goalies' impact above replacement level is lower than that for forwards and defensemen.

Let's put it this way:

A good goalie can win a cup with a great team
A great goalie can't win a cup with a good team

 

[egelband]

There was also no ****ing salary cap back then. The league also had a rule called 2-line pass which significantly slowed the game down so you didn't need to rely on young legs... you CANNOT make these comparisons.

Lighten up, Francis.

 

[egelband]

Let's put it this way:

A good goalie can win a cup with a great team
A great goalie can't win a cup with a good team

I think Quick did it a couple times recently. The Kings weren’t a great team. Well coached and on a great streak.

I guess they were - aside from Quick - indeed *playing* great if that’s what you’re saying. Which is reasonable. But they didn’t have a special amount of talent otherwise, relatively.
I do think a hot goalie could take a solid-not-great team to a cup.

 

[RangerBoy]

Man, we are betting the house in Shestyorkin being Hank 2.0 .

Hope it doesn't blow up in our faces.

Lundqvist will be 36 years old in a few weeks. He has three years remaining on his contract. Lundqvist is not going to be the Rangers #1 goaltender from here to eternity.

 

[RangerBoy]

Maybe it's just me but when you couple moving the rest of your corner stone players along with an article titled "Rangers are going to blow it up".
That kind of contradicts the Re-Tool theory.
Don't you think?

"Cornerstone" players with one season remaining on their contracts. The new contract extensions will not be cheap.

 

[Cassano]

Insane for who?

We would be insane not to take it.

 

[NikC]

I think Quick did it a couple times recently. The Kings weren’t a great team. Well coached and on a great streak.

I guess they were - aside from Quick - indeed *playing* great if that’s what you’re saying. Which is reasonable. But they didn’t have a special amount of talent otherwise, relatively.
I do think a hot goalie could take a solid-not-great team to a cup.

You're very wrong.... both the 2012,14 rosters had top flight centers, scoring wingers, one of the best puck moving defenseman in the game... plus bottom 6 depth.. big and physical. . Quick was very good and made the saves we he had to.. plus well coached. They had an identity. ..

The best line the Rangers has in recent years went up against them .. and it wasn't enough. ..

Building a team around a goalie doesn't work, unless your the NJD of 20yrs ago

 

[RangerBoy]

Let's put it this way:

A good goalie can win a cup with a great team
A great goalie can't win a cup with a good team

Ward
Giguere
Osgood
Fleury
Niemi
Thomas
Quick
Crawford
Murray

Cup winning goaltenders since the new NHL cap era in 2005-06.

Not many generational goaltenders in that group.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Ward
Giguere
Osgood
Fleury
Niemi
Thomas
Quick
Crawford
Murray

Cup winning goaltenders since the new NHL cap era in 2005-06.

Not many generational goaltenders in that group.

Thanks for proving my point.

 

[Larrybiv]

AV is coaching this team into a potential lottery pick. There is no reason to fix what's broken.

He has been a very fortunate coach in always having great goaltenders. He walked into a vey good situation here, and slowly turned it into "his team". If indeed the likes of McD, Zuccha and Nasher are gone........the only ones left will be Hank and Marc........unless......
So my point is.......now lets see how good or bad of a coach he is......as if we didn't already know. I'm gonna buy stock in his gum.

 

[Larrybiv]

If this is the direction, this should signal the end of a couple of things:

1. If Hank wants to, he should be able to find a team to play on next year.
2. Marc Staal should be bought out. There will be other young/cheap D to replace him and his salary having no burdon.
3. Brendan Smith should also be sold, for whatever you can get, preferably picks, but for a forward (1 of 12 players instead of 1 of 6) with a similar contract. Otherwise, without Staal, you could keep him as a vet for a year or 2.

If next year you told me the roster would look like this:

F: Buch, Kreider, Zib, Chtyil, Andersson, Fast, and 6 other forwards
D: Shatty, Skjei, Smith , ADA, Pionk, whoever wins the 6th and 7th D (Graves, FA, Kampfer, Day)
G: Hank (If he wants to stay), cheap backup (Georgiev, Nell, FA)

Pair all of this, with a new coach, and I'll feel like we're heading in the right direction for the future.

I left out Miller, Hayes, and Vesey on purpose. We should be maximizing their value (Vesey has next to none) and trading for prospects and picks.

Love your post and thinking......just that the last part of Hayes, Miller and Vesey I disagree with. They may not be all stars, but still there is good in each of them. I'd like them to stay as we need "young and mature and already PO experience" to help with the newbies, which SHOULD help in their development as mentors.

 

[eco's bones]

Did Leetch and Messier have a NMC they had to waive in order to be traded?

NTC's and NMC's are all products that evolved out of the cap system the NHL instituted after the lockout. They didn't exist before.

 

[Larrybiv]

If only Brooks was credible. He has been making up controversial stories his entire career. Makes for fun reading but I wouldn't take what he writes to the bank. Yes the tea leaves indicate what he says is true but let's not book it just yet.

Personally I think trading Zuc and McD makes a lot of sense if the return justifies it, along with the expiring contracts. We have a decent young core but few good prospects, so overall not enough young depth talent, esp. losing some of the current core. Time to give up on the King era and get ready for the Igor era. That is likely when we can next have a realistic run at the Cup. I think only 2 seasons away!

I'm thinking this time it's believable, coupled with reports from tsn. Those Canadian people know their stuff and when they report about Rangers conceivably are looking to move Zuccha and McD......well, I kind of believe the 2 mesh.
Furthermore......the sooner this news gets out, the more "feelers" arrive. May become a bidding war in which the Rangers would benefit. For me......this is intelligent business and "should be" in the best interest for our Rangers. Hurts those involved, but they know this is the way it goes.....they are valuable assets and need to be treated as such.
If I were Zuccha, I wouldn't want to get traded for "just a pick" I would have to believe he would want to be though of as MUCH MORE WORTHY of just a pick in return. Know what I mean?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

NTC's and NMC's are all products that evolved out of the cap system the NHL instituted after the lockout. They didn't exist before.

That's my point... Nothing was stopping this team from trading them. Lundqvist has a full NMC for the remainder of his contract.

 

[pld459666]

I agree but also the next 2-3 years will be about building hope again for whatever that turns out to be worth. Right now there ain't much of that commodity.

In a sense it's give up on the currently constructed team with the idea of reconstructing it.

Which shouldn't be difficult as the currently constructed product is extremely flawed

 

[Vitto79]

Lundqvist will be 36 years old in a few weeks. He has three years remaining on his contract. Lundqvist is not going to be the Rangers #1 goaltender from here to eternity.

1 more year in Russia then Hank can groom him for a few years . He’s got the talent so that’s the plan

 

[Synergy27]

Building a team around a goalie doesn't work, unless your the NJD of 20yrs ago

Who also had two of the best defenseman to ever play the game and the luxury of playing in an era perfectly suited to their play style (or you can say, a great coach smart enough to take advantage of the situation at the time).

Those teams had forward corps similar to the Rangers (depth, very good but no great players). Stevens and Niedermayer are HoF level players though. Like adding Karlsson and (I can't even think of a modern Stevens equivalent) to this Rangers team .

I'm really looking forward to when the tense of the verb in this thread title changes to past tense. Do it!

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Getting Marner would be a dream. But if the thought is TO is acquiring McD to contend immediately, I don't see how dealing Marner to do so helps with that.

 

[eco's bones]

That's my point... Nothing was stopping this team from trading them. Lundqvist has a full NMC for the remainder of his contract.

I don't see a good reason to move Henrik and especially if he wants to stay. He has the NMC--the Rangers didn't trade Girardi and his NMC--they eventually bought him out. Buying out Lundqvist--I just don't see that either. He's had a really good year besides. On top of all that I don't think he's marketable to another team--3 years at an $8.5 mil cap hit and he's on the verge of 36. All playoff bound teams have good goaltending and most all of them would have a hard time handling his cap hit. If you've a struggling team, you might have more cap space but you're more interested in youth and trying to get a younger, cheaper goaltender to carry you and to build with. Lundqvist IMO is very likely to be a career Ranger--I don't see him moving at least until the last year of his contract. IMO he's a shoo in for the Hall of Fame--likely first ballot but the probability is he'll go in without a Stanley Cup.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Yandle returned Duclair (a top prospect), Moore ( a potential top 4 pairing dman at the time), a 1st round pick, and another pick IIRC.. Mcdonagh should return even more than that.

I'm not convinced we didn't overpay like we were pathetic, desperate, single, acne covered teens at a prom trying to get just one dance from our HS infatuation. Ditto for MSL (Who at least had the stats)

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Why would Gorton retain 50% on either Mac or Zucc? Both are on team friendly contracts. What other top pair D is only making 4.5 mil?

If that 50% retention is the difference between a top prospect or 2nd round pick that's a good reason

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

I know your new to the boards. If it's one thing Edge doesn't have, it's Rangers colored glasses. He has better insight to the inner workings of NHL front offices then 99.9% of the posters on here.

I love Edge, he's by far the poster I most agree with here. But he's not immune to overvaluing a player due to NYR bias. Current GM's can do that with their own players or other teams players. Not even saying he;s doing it here. Just that I wouldn't use the condescending "You're new here" argument as an excuse to shut down someone's opinion on something like this.

 

[Kovalev27]

You’d have to give me marner (who’s having an awful year by the way) and liligren or a first to get Mcdonagh from me if your Toronto. Rangers would laugh at marner for Mcdonagh straight up.

Don’t compare yandle to
Mcdonagh. Mcdonagh is a true top dman in this league on a sweet heart deal for 2 playoff runs.

 

[TheTakedown]

Take a deep breath, dude. Do you disagree that most posters on here value futures over actual NHL players? Because that's literally ALL I was saying.

I'm fine, I'm just sick of people using a rebuild from almost 15 years ago as the basis of their arguments...

The rangers actually got good pieces out of that rebuild, sans a generational center... The team went their their most successful tenure in the last 60 years

People that bitch that rebuilding doesn't work because you could end up like Florida are just as bad as the ones saying it's bad because you can end up like Pittsburgh... Either way it's shit, each case is different

 

[Inferno]

Nylander is better than Marner so that’s odd.

I agree about trading McD just for the sake of trading him being dumb. With a piece like McD you set the price justifiably high and if nobody wants to meet it then you happily keep him and he continues to be the best player on your team (sans goalie) as he’s been the past 4 years or so.

It was supposed to say wouldn't for both....posting on my phone gas been a nightmare at times...so many weird autocorrects