Larry Brooks: Rangers will be selling

[Edge]

Not picking on just you. Your post sums up a lot of people’s feelings on here. If you are going to post Rangers trade ideas be realistic. Some of you need to take off your Rangers colored glasses. The way McD is overvalued on here is insane. He is not a top #1 defenseman. Yes he’s good top pair player. A number 2 on a contender. IF (and it’s a big if) we got Marner just straight up I would think we stole him.

See I think the problem is that this group is a pessimistic group who seems to undervalue a lot of guys. And it's not just McD, it's prospects like Andersson, Shestyorkin, etc.

Hell, look at how badly these boards undervalued Lundqvist - not just when he was a prospect, but well into his NHL career too.

If anything, I would argue these boards have it reversed. We seem to underestimate our higher skill players, and spend countless hours overvaluing and debating our bottom six players and support guys.

 

[NYR Viper]

I think it’s importwnt for then to get some defensive prospects however this goes down. Would it be great if it was in the McDonagh deal? Of course. But if that’s not available and the next best thing is to grab some high end forward prospects while snagging a couple of second tier guys in the mold of a Carlo or Foote while accumulating picks to be used on some higher end defensemen in the draft

 

[FireGerardGallant]

I dont think the leafs would move Nylander at any cost, and Marner is probably not going anywhere
But they do have a lot of good young prospects besides them I think they would move (Lilijegren, Dermott, Andreas Johnson, Kapanen, Leivo, Top 50 prospect Jeremy Bracco ) If we can get two of those guys a first and a mid round pick I think that'd be a win for us

 

[nevesis]

Brian Leetch for Kondratiev...

I agree. But, I think more than anything he wants to win a Stanley Cup. How motivated can you be in your last couple of years on a rebuild bottom 5 or bottom 10 team in NHL?

It's wasting what little time he has left to climb all of the goaltending categories, and more importantly win a cup.

I don't think he wants to go down as the best goalie ever to never win a cup.

Literally from his mouth he’s said, I either win it in New York or I don’t win it at all.

His whole life is here, family, business interests. He’s in the NHL Hall of Fame and will be revered within the walls of MSG and New York Rangers fans hearts forever.

He’s done it all, broken all the records he’s needed to break and he only has one left.

But he wants to do it here.

 

[GAGLine]

Not picking on just you. Your post sums up a lot of people’s feelings on here. If you are going to post Rangers trade ideas be realistic. Some of you need to take off your Rangers colored glasses. The way McD is overvalued on here is insane. He is not a top #1 defenseman. Yes he’s good top pair player. A number 2 on a contender. IF (and it’s a big if) we got Marner just straight up I would think we stole him.

You can argue the value or McD or Zucc, but you have to understand that neither player will be moved unless the deal makes sense for the Rangers. If the best we can get for McD is a late 1st, a 2nd and a B level prospect, he won't be traded. Undervaluing. Overvaluing. It doesn't matter. The price is whatever it will take to make Gorton move that player, and that price is steep.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

It funny that McD is a #2 on a contender considering that he has been the #1 on this team and they weren't a contender too long ago.

 

[Nopuckluck]

You can argue the value or McD or Zucc, but you have to understand that neither player will be moved unless the deal makes sense for the Rangers. If the best we can get for McD is a late 1st, a 2nd and a B level prospect, he won't be traded. Undervaluing. Overvaluing. It doesn't matter. The price is whatever it will take to make Gorton move that player, and that price is steep.

Good it should be steep. But I argue that Marner, Toronto’s top d prospect and a first is HUGE overpayment by Toronto. Lou would laugh. Plus I don’t see him trading with the Rangers

 

[Whoot Whoot]

What is the No Trade Status of these Core Rangers?

Poor Hank

 

[aufheben]

re: Marner, I don't think Lou would even do a 1-for-1 swap

Let's say this was Buch's rookie year, and instead of 22, he's 19. Who would you trade him for 1.5 years of? And consider that they need a RHD not left, and that Lou hates the Rangers.

 

[EdJovanovski]

We will get Hank his cup with him & Shesty splitting duties in 3-4 years

 

[Cassano]

Marner alone for McDonagh is insanity. Cmon people.

 

[mike14]

What is the No Trade Status of these Core Rangers?

Poor Hank

Hank, Staal and Shatty have full NMCs.
Nash, McD and Smith and modified NTCs.

This New York Rangers - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps explains what the conditions are for each one

 

[aufheben]

Marner alone for McDonagh is insanity. Cmon people.

Insane for who?

 

[TheTakedown]

You make a very good point. How many people on HF boards would have traded Amonte for Noonan and Matteau? Weight for Tik? Even Gartner for anything other than futures? I can honestly say that I don't know if I would have had I been in Smith's shoes.

There was also no f***ing salary cap back then. The league also had a rule called 2-line pass which significantly slowed the game down so you didn't need to rely on young legs... you CANNOT make these comparisons.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

There was also no ****ing salary cap back then. The league also had a rule called 2-line pass which significantly slowed the game down so you didn't need to rely on young legs... you CANNOT make these comparisons.

Lol

There are several posters on these boards who have explicitly said they still don't know if they would have made those trades, and I'm talking about random 1994 discussion pop-ups THIS YEAR.

 

[Tawnos]

re: Marner, I don't think Lou would even do a 1-for-1 swap

Let's say this was Buch's rookie year, and instead of 22, he's 19. Who would you trade him for 1.5 years of? And consider that they need a RHD not left, and that Lou hates the Rangers.

If I thought my team was on the cusp, I would trade Buchnevich for a 1D if my team didn’t have one.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Idk why this fan base equates things with the dark years of the 90s to 00s. Those teams sicker because of drafting. We drafted nobody really good from like 96-03 outside of lundqvist.

Not true. Tyutin, Dom Moore, Kim Johnson, Mike York, Marc Savard and Zidlicky were all good picks. Malholtra wasn't horrible just mishandled. Cherneski and Blackburn both mishandled and led to career ending injuries.

Rangers would have been fine in the late 90s-early 2000s but Smith didn't know when to quit. After 95 he should have started the rebuild around Zubov/Norstrom/Kovalev/Nedved not trade all those guys. He also traded the few young players like Savard, Sundstrom, Cloutier and gambled all on one draft.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Not picking on just you. Your post sums up a lot of people’s feelings on here. If you are going to post Rangers trade ideas be realistic. Some of you need to take off your Rangers colored glasses. The way McD is overvalued on here is insane. He is not a top #1 defenseman. Yes he’s good top pair player. A number 2 on a contender. IF (and it’s a big if) we got Marner just straight up I would think we stole him.

McDonagh was literally the number 1 D man in a team that lost in the SCF and in game 7 of the ecf the next year. Was the team not a contender? Calling McDoangh a number 2 is insane. Even with your qualifiers it’s ridiculous. McDonagh is (and has literally been) a number 1 on a contender.


Tell people to take off their Rangers glasses all you want. It doesn’t make you biased to admit that Ryan McDonagh is a bonafide number 1 D in this league. Zero questions asked he is.


Btw, Edge might be the most knowledgeable person on these boards.

 

[Inferno]

I would trade McD for marner straight up. I wouldn't trade him for nylander straight up. I'd want a first...and if probably want more. Number 1 defenseman are impossible to find.....number 1 defenseman on sweetheart deals in the prime of their career?

Id rather keep McD than trade him for...just something. You dontmove McD for the sake of moving him

..u get a metric ton back...or u keep him.

 

[McRanger]

Not true. Tyutin, Dom Moore, Kim Johnson, Mike York, Marc Savard and Zidlicky were all good picks. Malholtra wasn't horrible just mishandled. Cherneski and Blackburn both mishandled and led to career ending injuries.

Rangers would have been fine in the late 90s-early 2000s but Smith didn't know when to quit. After 95 he should have started the rebuild around Zubov/Norstrom/Kovalev/Nedved not trade all those guys. He also traded the few young players like Savard, Sundstrom, Cloutier and gambled all on one draft.

Our mid-late 90s drafting was abysmal by pretty much an metric you could possibly use.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

I would trade McD for marner straight up. I wouldn't trade him for nylander straight up. I'd want a first...and if probably want more. Number 1 defenseman are impossible to find.....number 1 defenseman on sweetheart deals in the prime of their career?

Id rather keep McD than trade him for...just something. You dontmove McD for the sake of moving him

..u get a metric ton back...or u keep him.

Nylander is better than Marner so that’s odd.

I agree about trading McD just for the sake of trading him being dumb. With a piece like McD you set the price justifiably high and if nobody wants to meet it then you happily keep him and he continues to be the best player on your team (sans goalie) as he’s been the past 4 years or so.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Our mid-late 90s drafting was abysmal by pretty much an metric you could possibly use.

It wasn't great but not awful.

95: Savard who had a great career. Purinton....eh.
96: Bad. Goneau showed glimpses though he apparently was really immature.
97: Cherneski would have been a good player but a freak injury.York was a pretty good NHLer for a few years who if he would've taken care of himself could have played at least 4-5 more seasons. Mottau took some time but turned into a decent DMan.
98: Malholtra- mishandled but played almost 1,000 games. LaBarbera, took some time to develop but became a decent backup. Kloucek-freak injury that should have never happened.
99: Bad
2000: Lundqvist and Dom Moore
2001: Tyutin, Zidlicky, Blackburn was rushed and had a freak injury. And if you'd like to throw Hollweg in there fine as he was an ok 4th liner for 2/3 years.

So there were a lot of guys on this list who had decent to very good NHL careers. It was more a case of mismanagement and mishandling but the league was so different back then.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Sorry but if Leetch and Messier can get traded, so can Lundqvist..

Did Leetch and Messier have a NMC they had to waive in order to be traded?

 

[Matt Rentfree]

There was also no ****ing salary cap back then. The league also had a rule called 2-line pass which significantly slowed the game down so you didn't need to rely on young legs... you CANNOT make these comparisons.

Take a deep breath, dude. Do you disagree that most posters on here value futures over actual NHL players? Because that's literally ALL I was saying.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

An elite goalie doesn't have nearly the same influence on a successful post-season as an elite forward or even an elite defenseman.

Is it not the same influence or not the same relative influence? In other words goaltending is important but it seems that the elite goalies' impact above replacement level is lower than that for forwards and defensemen.