Larry Brooks: Rangers will be selling

[UAGoalieGuy]

Yeah, and Marner would have lead this team in scoring last year as a 19 year old. He's under team control for another, what, 5 seasons after this one?

McDonagh is fantastic, and I'm sure his perceived value is through the roof, but I think you're undervaluing Marner in a big way. I doubt Toronto would be interested in moving Marner, period, let alone Marner, two good prospects, and a 1st. I could see it if McDonagh were younger, and signed longer, but as it stands, I don't think Toronto is willing to give up nearly that much.

That being said, it'd be amazing if you're right in your assessment, because it would set this team up amazingly moving forward.

Of all the posters on these boards as a whole, Edge would have the best idea how things could go down. He was in the business.

 

[NYR Viper]

Let's play fantasy trading for a second and dream that Gorton nails all his trades and earns an A/A+

Let's say McD lands Marner, Liljegren, Dermott and a first OR Sergachev and a first.

Let's say Nash lands a later first.

Let's say Zucc lands either a higher end prospect, but not quite elite prospect OR a good prospect a first.

Let's say Grabner lands a first.

Let's say Holden lands a third.

Let's say Desharnais lands a fourth.

That means we have some combination of 2-3 higher end young talent and prospects, or potentially 3-5 first round picks (and everything in between.)

Is adding that to Andersson, Chytil, ADA, Graves, Day, Pionk, Shestyorkin, Lettieri in the system, and potentially Kreider, Miller, Zibanejad, Fast, Hayes, Vesey, Buch, Skjei and Shattenkirk really seem that absmal of a place to move forward from?

Even if we assume some of those assets are packaged and moved, it's not exactly circa 2004.

This is exactly my thoughts. Gorton has the unique ability to be able to rebuild the entire organization in a matter of, pretty much, a single calendar year. Stepan trade. A good draft. Trade Nash, Grabner, McDonagh, Zuccarello and all of a sudden he has quite a few prime assets for the future.

I’m partial to Sergachev + 1st. As an aside, is Callahan + 2 1st’s not a better package, back at that time, for MSL? Because I feel McDonagh should be worth more than 39 year old MSL.

 

[AKrangerfan]

Why would Gorton retain 50% on either Mac or Zucc? Both are on team friendly contracts. What other top pair D is only making 4.5 mil?

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Why would Gorton retain 50% on either Mac or Zucc? Both are on team friendly contracts. What other top pair D is only making 4.5 mil?

Maximize value?

 

[Trxjw]

I definitely believe that the team could move some pieces and set themselves up nicely for a 18 month turn around. That being said, I'm not sure I see the returns being bandied about as all that feasible. Would I love Sergachev? Yes. Would I ask for Sergachev? Yes. Do I expect the Bolts to give up Sergachev? No I don't.

I don't expect the Leafs to be players for McDonagh. I think they'll try and make a play for Karlsson or OEL. Guys that can play the right side effectively.

For me, Boston still makes the most sense. They're trending up, are competitive now, and have a need for McDonagh. He wouldn't just be a luxury for them. They get a guy who can anchor their 2nd pairing now, and take over with McAvoy once Chara starts to slip. They also have a boatload of prospects and not much room for them. They're not the blue-chip pieces we all dream about, but they're definitely high quality skaters. Bjork, Forsbacka-Karlsson, Frederic, Zboril, Lindgren, Vaakanainen, etc. Some risky guys like Donato and Senyshyn. That's before you even consider some of the guys on their actual roster. The Rangers could hedge themselves with quantity that is already skating in the AHL/NHL, a high-risk/high-reward guy, and a 1st round pick.

It's about building assets and being flexible. That way, when that elite piece becomes available you can pounce on it.

 

[McD27]

I don't think McD will fetch as much as we want here. He's not the same player from a couple of years ago especially on the offensive side. Heck, he just scored his first goal of the season the last game.

We all thought Talbot was going to fetch a 1st+ and we ended up with a 5th I believe.

Just because we were stupid enough to give up 2 firsts + Cally for MSL that doesn't mean another GM will

 

[TheBloodyNine]

I definitely believe that the team could move some pieces and set themselves up nicely for a 18 month turn around. That being said, I'm not sure I see the returns being bandied about as all that feasible. Would I love Sergachev? Yes. Would I ask for Sergachev? Yes. Do I expect the Bolts to give up Sergachev? No I don't.

I don't expect the Leafs to be players for McDonagh. I think they'll try and make a play for Karlsson or OEL. Guys that can play the right side effectively.

For me, Boston still makes the most sense. They're trending up, are competitive now, and have a need for McDonagh. He wouldn't just be a luxury for them. They get a guy who can anchor their 2nd pairing now, and take over with McAvoy once Chara starts to slip. They also have a boatload of prospects and not much room for them. They're not the blue-chip pieces we all dream about, but they're definitely high quality skaters. Bjork, Forsbacka-Karlsson, Frederic, Zboril, Lindgren, Vaakanainen, etc. Some risky guys like Donato and Senyshyn. That's before you even consider some of the guys on their actual roster. The Rangers could hedge themselves with quantity that is already skating in the AHL/NHL, a high-risk/high-reward guy, and a 1st round pick.

It's about building assets and being flexible. That way, when that elite piece becomes available you can pounce on it.

Ottawa is not trading Karlsson to Toronto

 

[Trxjw]

Ottawa is not trading Karlsson to Toronto

I was referring to their impending free agency.

 

[SA16]

I would easily trade McDonagh for Marner straight up but I can't imagine the Leafs would do that.

 

[NYR Viper]

I definitely believe that the team could move some pieces and set themselves up nicely for a 18 month turn around. That being said, I'm not sure I see the returns being bandied about as all that feasible. Would I love Sergachev? Yes. Would I ask for Sergachev? Yes. Do I expect the Bolts to give up Sergachev? No I don't.

I don't expect the Leafs to be players for McDonagh. I think they'll try and make a play for Karlsson or OEL. Guys that can play the right side effectively.

For me, Boston still makes the most sense. They're trending up, are competitive now, and have a need for McDonagh. He wouldn't just be a luxury for them. They get a guy who can anchor their 2nd pairing now, and take over with McAvoy once Chara starts to slip. They also have a boatload of prospects and not much room for them. They're not the blue-chip pieces we all dream about, but they're definitely high quality skaters. Bjork, Forsbacka-Karlsson, Frederic, Zboril, Lindgren, Vaakanainen, etc. Some risky guys like Donato and Senyshyn. That's before you even consider some of the guys on their actual roster. The Rangers could hedge themselves with quantity that is already skating in the AHL/NHL, a high-risk/high-reward guy, and a 1st round pick.

It's about building assets and being flexible. That way, when that elite piece becomes available you can pounce on it.

Boston definitely makes sense as well, specifically because of the age of their core group. Same age as TB really.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I think some of the expected returns are a bit overboard. I think we can realistically expect something better than what we gave up for Yandle, Not really sure what a comparable package but slightly more would be, maybe something like Liljegren, 2018 1st, 2019 1st, nhl roster player. I doubt we get back a Marner, Nylander, Sergachev type.

 

[bobbop]

Any McDonagh trade starts with a premium defenseman. Think Liljegren, Heiskanen or someone else of that ilk. Probably the best news for the Rangers is that Toronto and Dallas are top of the very top teams that would be logical trade candidates for him. I'm not sure Skeji will ever be a top pair defenseman and a healthy Shattenkirk, well he's still Shattenkirk. Trade him for two forwards and the team gets further out of whack.

 

[Krams]

We all thought Talbot was going to fetch a 1st+ and we ended up with a 5th I believe.

We got three draft picks for Talbot including a 2nd and a 3rd.

How hard is it to look this stuff up before you post?

 

[SA16]

I think some of the expected returns are a bit overboard. I think we can realistically expect something better than what we gave up for Yandle, Not really sure what a comparable package but slightly more would be, maybe something like Liljegren, 2018 1st, 2019 1st, nhl roster player. I doubt we get back a Marner, Nylander, Sergachev type.

Even if Marner for McDonagh was fair (which I don't think it is) teams that are looking to add for McDonagh are not also going to be looking to lose a very important roster player off their team as they head towards the playoffs.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Even if Marner for McDonagh was fair (which I don't think it is) teams that are looking to add for McDonagh are not also going to be looking to lose a very important roster player off their team as they head towards the playoffs.

That is an excellent point, which means if that type of trade did happen, it wouldn't until the offseason, but then McDonagh has 1 less playoff run which hurts his value. Which is why I doubt a trade like that happens.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

Even if Marner for McDonagh was fair (which I don't think it is) teams that are looking to add for McDonagh are not also going to be looking to lose a very important roster player off their team as they head towards the playoffs.

But, but...they won’t do it for RangersTown Just because...

Are they aware we are an Original 6 Team and play in The World’s Most Famous Arena?

 

[McD27]

We got three draft picks for Talbot including a 2nd and a 3rd.

How hard is it to look this stuff up before you post?

What’s your point in attacking me?

We got the 57th, 79th and 184th pick.

My point was we all though we were going to get a first round + and ended up with nothing close

So instead to seeing my point in McD perhaps not fetching as much as wel all think, you choose to pick on me

 

[Trxjw]

I dunno. Call me overly pessimistic, but I think if the team ends up saying a blue-chip defensive prospect has to be in the return for Mac, we're likely going to be sitting here a year from now debating whether we should deal him as a rental or give him a big extension. By getting specific like that, you're cutting heavily into what's already likely to be a small market of suitors. There's a reason Liljegren and Heiskanen's name keep coming up here. They're the only two kids who fit that criteria that are on teams who are hoping to be competitive now and moving forward; and one of those teams is already loaded up on left-handed defensemen.

 

[Edge]

I like Marner's long-term potential, but with 7 goals and 34 points this season, let's not pretend he's a sure thing either.

I think that's exactly what the Rangers have to be careful about - buying into either other teams' evaluations of their own young players, or the inherent risk in buying on pedigree versus performance.

Trading for young assets is always a challenge. The fantasy is that they're all going to be stars and therefore their value is too high to move.

But don't underestimate the value of an established, all-star level defenseman, who is still in his prime, is an excellent skater, has a good contract, and is under control for two playoff runs.

More importantly, don't underestimate the value of an established star versus the perceived value of guys who might be stars someday. That's the so-called "used car smell" I worn about.

 

[SA16]

Other than Matthews nobody on the Leafs puts up great numbers because Babcock uses the AV strategy of playing every forward 15 minutes a game.

 

[Edge]

Yeah, and Marner would have lead this team in scoring last year as a 19 year old. He's under team control for another, what, 5 seasons after this one?

McDonagh is fantastic, and I'm sure his perceived value is through the roof, but I think you're undervaluing Marner in a big way. I doubt Toronto would be interested in moving Marner, period, let alone Marner, two good prospects, and a 1st. I could see it if McDonagh were younger, and signed longer, but as it stands, I don't think Toronto is willing to give up nearly that much.

That being said, it'd be amazing if you're right in your assessment, because it would set this team up amazingly moving forward.

But, by that same approach, McDonagh, whose primary benefit is his defensive play, would've been the second leading Leafs defenseman last year, losing out on the lead by a point but also playing 5 fewer games.

I don't think we can use Talbot or Hagelin or any other vet we've moved as a comparable.

I don't know what the final trade would be, and it might not necessarily be all the pieces I'd ask for, but I think it would be higher than some people think. Besides, I have no problem with the Rangers asking for the higher value and being talked "down" to what still amounts to a great return. But we don't start low with McD.

 

[Edge]

Other than Matthews nobody on the Leafs puts up great numbers because Babcock uses the AV strategy of playing every forward 15 minutes a game.

And if we go with the originator of the AV strategy,AV himself, wouldn't it likewise be fair to argue that McD's numbers are also understated?

Let's not overlook the fact that McD, is still on pace for another 40+ point season. And that's not even his primary calling card.

 

[Nopuckluck]

Personally, I'd value prospects/young talent over picks.

If your Toronto, do you like what McD brings enough to dangle Marner, Liljegren, Dermott and a first?

If you're Tampa, do you dangle Sergachev knowing this might be the peak of your window?

More than anything, I am curious.

Not picking on just you. Your post sums up a lot of people’s feelings on here. If you are going to post Rangers trade ideas be realistic. Some of you need to take off your Rangers colored glasses. The way McD is overvalued on here is insane. He is not a top #1 defenseman. Yes he’s good top pair player. A number 2 on a contender. IF (and it’s a big if) we got Marner just straight up I would think we stole him.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Not picking on just you. Your post sums up a lot of people’s feelings on here. If you are going to post Rangers trade ideas be realistic. Some of you need to take off your Rangers colored glasses. The way McD is overvalued on here is insane. He is not a top #1 defenseman. Yes he’s good top pair player. A number 2 on a contender. IF (and it’s a big if) we got Marner just straight up I would think we stole him.

I know your new to the boards. If it's one thing Edge doesn't have, it's Rangers colored glasses. He has better insight to the inner workings of NHL front offices then 99.9% of the posters on here.

 

[Krams]

What’s your point in attacking me?

We got the 57th, 79th and 184th pick.

My point was we all though we were going to get a first round + and ended up with nothing close

So instead to seeing my point in McD perhaps not fetching as much as wel all think, you choose to pick on me

I understand your point but you exaggerated.

Where is the correlation between Talbot and a hypothetical McDonagh trade? A breakout backup goaltender vs. an established 1D. In any scenario expectations can be inflated obviously but the Rangers are firmly in the driver's seat here. If the return isn't there, they can cash in on Nash/Grabner/Zucc and hold onto McD. This is an opportunity to build our next core, but our backs are not against the wall. We can hold onto McDonagh through the deadline and deal him at the draft, or even next year's deadline.