Post-Game Talk: Rangers vs. Red Wings | 3/19/19 - 7PM - MSG

[Leonardo87]

The Rangers have the fewest ROW's in the NHL after the Red Wings game last night.

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It’s crazy that the Rangers have the same amount of SO wins as Tampa with 6 which is tied for league lead.

 

[Mike in Houston]

What's the point of John Giannone's game summaries?

And every freaking time he starts off, "Well Al..." or "Well Bill...". Ugh.

His questions aren't even good.

But I do like his podcast with Maloney.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

The thing is I don’t care that I get slaughtered here. Literally means nothing to me. I offer a counter perspective to the rebuild. People don’t always like to read the opposite to the way they think or feel about things. That’s cool- don’t read it. The point is, blind loyalty to this “ rebuilds work by being horrible” are not accurate.

Personal attacks on me are not really required. It’s a hockey forum filled with healthy debate. My style is to tell it like I see it. If that comes across the way you suggest than I’m not sure what to say. Consider me an alarmist— that’s probably true. I do see a need for concern!

My definitive statements on 20 year olds are not definitive! You’ll never see me say these guys are busts! They are not— I’m commenting on their current performance andim most outspoken against Lias but not because I know he will be a bust( I don’t) but because I think his pick reflects just how miss guided this management team is!

Listen, this is not about me. I’m happy to have hockey talk. I’m happy to be the whipping boy if that’s what it takes to add perspective!

I feel like you did care enough to point out that you felt it was unwarranted

. I tried to make this a lot less blunt and nasty but I take issue with some things so it won't be completely "nice" either.

What's this idea you're putting forth at the end of your post where it's like you're the last bastion of open discussion? When I was talking about how stuff often seems obnoxious that was exactly what I was talking about. It just doesn't make any sense. How are you the one adding perspective? Every thread is full of naysayers or critics having it out with people who can't stop pretending like everything is fine. There are degrees of each category. When people are at one extreme end and when they ignore context that's when they frequently find themselves "getting slaughtered". You unfortunately are there.

A LITTLE bit of what I said got too personal but most of it was simply describing why you are getting slaughtered. I actually had just come back to edit it to be a little less harsh and blunt bc it's early and I'm always a cranky jerk when it's early. Even though I wish I'd been a bit less blunt, sorry about that, everything I said was an explanation for something you chose to openly gripe about.

Example: I've criticized Chytil. Especially early in the season. I pointed out the flaws I saw and the mistakes he made. I could have been wrong in my analysis but that's what I saw. I did NOT make hyperbolic statements of what he, or the team, will be in 5 years. I kept it relegated to what I actually saw. What I saw was also a 19 year old rookie against the literal best in the world. I considered this. Outside of Hank, anytime I do this, I never get major pushback bc most people are fine with fair, level minded analysis. (I strongly suspect that the Hank fanatics here are not fine with it)

I don't think many people would have an issue if you had said that you're worried about them developing enough to really carry the team in the future. It's the way you express your concerns though. It's a bit much

 

[will1066]

Hate them. I Can't imagine anyone else thinks it's good either, but no one shuts his Mic off in time to stop it.

The bad usage of metaphors, puns, and play on words gets me.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

It’s crazy that the Rangers have the same amount of SO wins as Tampa with 6 which is tied for league lead.

I’m surprised Tampa has gone to 6 shootouts

 

[will1066]

Gilmour had some jitters but picked it up as the game went on.

Best type of game from my POV. Played better than the other team, had the puck a lot, and we didn’t get any points.

Keep playing Hank, he is in on the Tank. Thought most guys played well in relation to their capacity.

The guy hadn't played an NHL game in approximately a year. That being said, this is a league where small players can thrive, but usually at forward and not in the back. Like Pionk, I think he's undersized for board play and working the corners. People will say, use your positioning with speed. But we know how that is going.

 

[will1066]

I’m surprised Tampa has gone to 6 shootouts

The one redeeming factor of Sh*ttykirk. He's great at SOs.

 

[JHS]

I feel like you did care enough to point out that you felt it was unwarranted

. I tried to make this a lot less blunt and nasty but I take issue with some things so it won't be completely "nice" either.

What's this idea you're putting forth at the end of your post where it's like you're the last bastion of open discussion? When I was talking about how stuff often seems obnoxious that was exactly what I was talking about. It just doesn't make any sense. How are you the one adding perspective? Every thread is full of naysayers or critics having it out with people who can't stop pretending like everything is fine. There are degrees of each category. When people are at one extreme end and when they ignore context that's when they frequently find themselves "getting slaughtered". You unfortunately are there.

A LITTLE bit of what I said got too personal but most of it was simply describing why you are getting slaughtered. I actually had just come back to edit it to be a little less harsh and blunt bc it's early and I'm always a cranky jerk when it's early. Even though I wish I'd been a bit less blunt, sorry about that, everything I said was an explanation for something you chose to openly gripe about.

Example: I've criticized Chytil. Especially early in the season. I pointed out the flaws I saw and the mistakes he made. I could have been wrong in my analysis but that's what I saw. I did NOT make hyperbolic statements of what he, or the team, will be in 5 years. I kept it relegated to what I actually saw. What I saw was also a 19 year old rookie against the literal best in the world. I considered this. Outside of Hank, anytime I do this, I never get major pushback bc most people are fine with fair, level minded analysis. (I strongly suspect that the Hank fanatics here are not fine with it)

I don't think many people would have an issue if you had said that you're worried about them developing enough to really carry the team in the future. It's the way you express your concerns though. It's a bit much

Fair. I’m assertive in my analysis because I believe I have a perspective few on this board are trying to put forward. For every one post I see similar to mine( in mindset) there are dozens more of the “everything is great” mindset. It’s true that I feel like if I take the more timid “let’s wait and see but things don’t look good” approach( maybe more in line with others” that my point will not be noticed. Furthermore, I’m not here to make friends and post silly GIF’s and make jokes- I’m here to engage in actual dialogue about an NHL team I care deeply about. I don’t at all believe I’m the last bastion of open dialogue. In fact, I’m trying to encourage even more dialogue that is open by going at some of these assertions the “groupthink” crowd on here constantly puts forth. So in a sense, yes I do believe that if everyone was just posting the uber obvious “let’s wait and see how this plays out” this site would be awfully boring to read. I believe I’m confident enough in my perspective to take stances on certain things( most of my stances are around management and being ill prepared for a rebuild- less so on actual players.)

You seem like a good guy and I can assure you, I’m a good guy too. My tact on here might be assertive( maybe overly so) but believe me, we all want the same thing- for the Rangers to be as good as they can be!

With that said, I’d hate for this personal back and forth to detract from this talk. I’ll keep putting my ideas out there and I hope others do the same. It’s ok to disagree!

 

[Larrybiv]

So Chytil played center and was a million times more engaged and moving his feet than he’s been in months. Hmm where’d you hear that happening before? He’s a center. He’s a skater needs to be in the middle to be more involved. Tons of centers like that including Hayes who’s lost on the wing.

Kid should play the rest of the schedule at center ice.

Agree, and that was certainly good to see. Howden and Lias haven't shown that "on ice presence" and becoming somewhat of an offensive force like he showed. Agree, he should play out the schedule there.
But now you have Lias, Howdy doody and a dog named Boo and only 2 available spots. Now what? As far as I am concerned, Boo has been better than the others. He made things happen more often. Faster, good size, and better awareness of his teammates. A better playmaker, for now.
Just saying.

 

[Larrybiv]

The one redeeming factor of Sh*ttykirk. He's great at SOs.

Isn't enough to cover 6mil and a whole lot of crappy play during 60 and sometimes 65.

 

[LeetchisGod]

Isn't enough to cover 6mil and a whole lot of crappy play during 60 and sometimes 65.

I really wonder what our pro scouts were watching.

 

[Larrybiv]

If I may add my 2 cents. I am elated that FO decided to do this. I, indeed am very concerned with just how long this may take.
Everyone should be. There are no guarantees here.
This team is in "uncharted territory". There is no real "recipe" on how to do this, other than getting fortunate with a high lottery pick or 2. Look how fortunate Colorado is by ripping off Ottawa and staying patient. They will now add 2 players and one probably a blue chipper.
We only KNOW how "not to do this" and fortunately for us, we support a big market team.....so we don't have to go there.

We have what we have in our system and team. We have the next 2 drafts and even a possible "other 1st" if Zuccha signs.

Imho, we are at the threshold here. Kreider. Kreider.

It has been recorded that Kreider "will not" go into next season without an extension of a long term contract. This will NOT become another McD scenario. And, we all know what the alternative is.

If we trade him, that gets us a bundle, but leaves Zbad alone on a desert island (sorry, Hank) you all know what I mean.

If it's bye bye Kreids.....we are looking at a much longer rebuild.
And what we get in return could push us over the top but will have to wait until 2022 or so.
If we keep him, maybe we wont have "quite enough" quality players that will push us into that category of where we want to be. And Kreids will be well into his 30's before we are even relevant again.

Threshold, turning point......call it what you will.
But, what will Gorton do? Yes, I am very concerned. I cannot live forever.

 

[Rongomania]

If I may add my 2 cents. I am elated that FO decided to do this. I, indeed am very concerned with just how long this may take.
Everyone should be. There are no guarantees here.
This team is in "uncharted territory". There is no real "recipe" on how to do this, other than getting fortunate with a high lottery pick or 2. Look how fortunate Colorado is by ripping off Ottawa and staying patient. They will now add 2 players and one probably a blue chipper.
We only KNOW how "not to do this" and fortunately for us, we support a big market team.....so we don't have to go there.

We have what we have in our system and team. We have the next 2 drafts and even a possible "other 1st" if Zuccha signs.

Imho, we are at the threshold here. Kreider. Kreider.

It has been recorded that Kreider "will not" go into next season without an extension of a long term contract. This will NOT become another McD scenario. And, we all know what the alternative is.

If we trade him, that gets us a bundle, but leaves Zbad alone on a desert island (sorry, Hank) you all know what I mean.

If it's bye bye Kreids.....we are looking at a much longer rebuild.
And what we get in return could push us over the top but will have to wait until 2022 or so.
If we keep him, maybe we wont have "quite enough" quality players that will push us into that category of where we want to be. And Kreids will be well into his 30's before we are even relevant again.

Threshold, turning point......call it what you will.
But, what will Gorton do? Yes, I am very concerned. I cannot live forever.

Great stuff.

Re: Kreider situation. Sadly, from the looks of it, they were definitely shopping him around the TDL - Fielding offers, whatever you’d like to call it. To me, if they got good offers that trickle into the draft - we may see some action there. What would we even be looking at as a feasible package for him at the draft?

The saddest part is what you mentioned about even if we keep him he’ll likely be not what he’s getting paid to be by then..

Now let’s look at it this way - what would we get for a Kreider/Pionk package ?

Could be a freakin’ haul fellas.

 

[Larrybiv]

I really wonder what our pro scouts were watching.

They were watching the same ole' "we will get the big name, marquee, overrated player" to make our phony fans happy.
NOT the real, diehard "we know better" fans. This made Shatty happy......and screwed most of us.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I really wonder what our pro scouts were watching.

Him tear it up on the pp for basxially his whole career?

Shatty now isn’t shatty before signing here.

 

[Tawnos]

Hate them. I Can't imagine anyone else thinks it's good either, but no one shuts his Mic off in time to stop it.

Didn't the pre- and post- game just win an Emmy?

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Yeah baffling for sure but looking back at that draft believe it or not Staal was probably the second best player drafted between 2-12 (not counting goaltenders). Kopitar being the other who was taken at 11. And Oshie was taken at 24. I can't believe Oshie and Staal have been in the league for the same amount of time lol. ****ing penguins totally lucked out. That first round was pretty ****ty besides Crosby and Kopitar.

Yep, Staal was a good pick there, though we even had to trade up to get him. Still just crazy we fell as far as we did considering we were tied for the top odds in the lottery.

 

[True Blue]

The one redeeming factor of Sh*ttykirk. He's great at SOs.

Said this in a different thread, but if you want to ensure that more games are lost, just keep Gilmour and Shattenkirk together as a pair on the ice more often.

 

[True Blue]

I really wonder what our pro scouts were watching.

Hated the signing then and really hate it more now.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Said this in a different thread, but if you want to ensure that more games are lost, just keep Gilmour and Shattenkirk together as a pair on the ice more often.

Or just play Staal-Pionk for 30.

Funny that everyone got on Gilmour for his gaffe on that goal against (which was on him) but there were crickets for Staal's play... He was worse.

 

[True Blue]

Or just play Staal-Pionk for 30.

Funny that everyone got on Gilmour for his gaffe on that goal against (which was on him) but there were crickets for Staal's play... He was worse.

That does not change the fact that Gilmour is not an NHL caliber defenseman.

Stall may not have had a strong game, but overall he has been ok in a role as a third pairing defenseman. Gilmour has not been on that level. Ever.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

That does not change the fact that Gilmour is not an NHL caliber defenseman.

Stall may not have had a strong game, but overall he has been ok in a role as a third pairing defenseman. Gilmour has not been on that level. Ever.

Staal has been sub NHL level for almost 3 months now.

But it doesn't matter, it helps the cause.

 

[True Blue]

Staal has been sub NHL level for almost 3 months now.

But it doesn't matter, it helps the cause.

Honestly, what difference does it make on how long he has been subpar? The point is that Gilmour should not touch the ice as an NHL defenseman. But to your point, heck keep sending him and Shattenkirk out there is a pair. It helps the cause.

 

[will1066]

Said this in a different thread, but if you want to ensure that more games are lost, just keep Gilmour and Shattenkirk together as a pair on the ice more often.

Can Gilmour and Shattenkirk out-bad Staal and Pionk? I see the four of them duking it out in the schoolyard with butter knives reminiscent of Anchorman.

 

[True Blue]

It

Can Gilmour and Shattenkirk out-bad Staal and Pionk? I see the four of them duking it out in the schoolyard with butter knives reminiscent of Anchorman.

It becomes "how bad is bad"?

Sort of like the home runs in Major League......"Too high.......Too far.....WHO CARES? IT'S GONE!!"