Post-Game Talk: Rangers vs. Red Wings | 3/19/19 - 7PM - MSG

[Machinehead]

Shattenkirk was never a third pair defenseman. Go back and look at how he was actually used in STL.

 

[True Blue]

But the idea that he was some #5 in St. Louis and the Rangers brought him here to be Chris Pronger is complete bull****.

Ok, what was he and what was he brought and PAID here to be?

**** Washington and **** their 13 games.

Well that clears it up.

 

[True Blue]

This confirms that you just want to be mad. Crawley is a borderline prospect and Bigras isn't a prospect.

Context. I said for a look see. If Gilmour can be given a look, so too can Crawley.

 

[Machinehead]

Ok, what was he and what was he brought and PAID here to be?

St. Louis used him as a #3 defenseman. We paid him commensurate with what a good 2nd pair defenseman usually makes. We've probably deployed him, if anything, as a little bit below a #3.

Deployment-wise, he's the same player he was his entire career.

It's a narrative. It's not even a narrative. It's a fairy tale.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

This confirms that you just want to be mad. Crawley is a borderline prospect and Bigras isn't a prospect.

And they’re both left handed.

I don’t see how you can complain about Shattenkirk “blocking a spot” when there is no one to block. ADA and Pionk are already here and playing. Who else is there to replace him? f***ing nobody.

 

[Kovalev27]

Tell you what that was best game I’ve seen Shattenkirk play in forever

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Those 13 games were a harbinger of things to come.

Not really. He was great in the playoffs the run before that which ran longer than 13 games too.

The Knee injury sunk him. It was stupid for him to play through it.

 

[NCRanger]

@JHS,

I happen to agree with you for the most part. I bet you're mid-40's/early 50's. Our generation does not understand tanking; I mean, we understand why, but it goes against everything we were taught as young athletes, students, and people in the working world. We were taught, if someone is beating you, work harder to get better. That's not the way it is these days. Now, it's, if someone is beating you, find a way to go somewhere else where you'll be the best. Instead of working harder, look for the handout.

It's the same thing with the Rangers here. The people around here think "winning the lottery" and drafting high is the only way to compete. I guess actually drafting well and trading well isn't possible. Lounging around and waiting for your savior to come via lottery is just the way it is now. It's utterly pathetic. But fits right in this world where people aren't that emotionally attached to their teams unless they're winning these days. So what if "my team" sucks for a decade; I'll just find something else to do until "my team" is "winning" again.

The Rangers are fairly new to this party. The Garden still cared about season tickets and trying to always be competitive until relatively recently. That's why ticket prices were never all that high compared to the rest of the league, even in expansion cities. Now, New York has caught up with the rest of the country with who's actually buying the tickets. It's not the guy who wants to go 40+ nights any more. That guy's been priced out. The league now caters to bandwagon ****face who drops $400 three times a season, and could care the **** less when the team is tanking.

Unfortunately, the millennials on here are perfectly fine with the tanking for the 20% chance it actually will pay off with a Cup. Because actually finishing 5th or 6th, and winning a round or two in the playoffs gives them no joy at all. They'd rather suck *** for 20 years and get ONE bite at the apple than having that chance every year. That's what grade inflation and participation trophies does to the brain.

 

[Machinehead]

@JHS,

I happen to agree with you for the most part. I bet you're mid-40's/early 50's. Our generation does not understand tanking; I mean, we understand why, but it goes against everything we were taught as young athletes, students, and people in the working world. We were taught, if someone is beating you, work harder to get better. That's not the way it is these days. Now, it's, if someone is beating you, find a way to go somewhere else where you'll be the best. Instead of working harder, look for the handout.

It's the same thing with the Rangers here. The people around here think "winning the lottery" and drafting high is the only way to compete. I guess actually drafting well and trading well isn't possible. Lounging around and waiting for your savior to come via lottery is just the way it is now. It's utterly pathetic. But fits right in this world where people aren't that emotionally attached to their teams unless they're winning these days. So what if "my team" sucks for a decade; I'll just find something else to do until "my team" is "winning" again.

The Rangers are fairly new to this party. The Garden still cared about season tickets and trying to always be competitive until relatively recently. That's why ticket prices were never all that high compared to the rest of the league, even in expansion cities. Now, New York has caught up with the rest of the country with who's actually buying the tickets. It's not the guy who wants to go 40+ nights any more. That guy's been priced out. The league now caters to bandwagon ****face who drops $400 three times a season, and could care the **** less when the team is tanking.

Unfortunately, the millennials on here are perfectly fine with the tanking for the 20% chance it actually will pay off with a Cup. Because actually finishing 5th or 6th, and winning a round or two in the playoffs gives them no joy at all. They'd rather suck *** for 20 years and get ONE bite at the apple than having that chance every year. That's what grade inflation and participation trophies does to the brain.

Drafting well and trading well is not only possible, it's the only way to build. The Rangers still have to do that regardless of where they pick, see Edmonton.

You talk about winning a round or two and how that apparently brings people no joy. First of all, that's completely untrue. Second, this team was NEVER winning a round or two. Not even if they tried to compete from July 1st on. It wasn't happening. The horses aren't there. This team was never making the 18-19 playoffs. I don't think it's that people don't care about making the playoffs. I think it's that you don't want to admit it just wasn't on the table.

With that in mind, it's less about the lottery pick and more about making long-term moves as opposed to short-term ones. I don't care that much if we pick 9th, 7th, 5th, or 1st. It is what it is. If we pick higher, great. We still have to make a good pick. And I'm not going to watch Rangers games and root for them to lose. I'll be ok with them losing in the situation they're in and not get high blood pressure over it, but I don't want them to lose. Again, it's not about that.

Its about this: what were Kevin Hayes and Mats Zuccarello doing for this team? Sure, when we traded them we went from bad to awful, but we were still bad with them, and never making the playoffs with them. The short-term was already dead in the water, so why not explore long-term moves? I'd rather have the gamble that the picks we got help this team for 15 years over Zuccarello helping this team finish 6th in Metro instead of 8th for the next two years. And yes, it's a gamble. It's a "chance" as you say. That's precisely why you acquire as many picks as possible.

I don't know how you can read this board and question the emotional investment of everyone here. We're obviously not "finding other things to do" while the team sucks because we're here arguing about it.

Outside of one guy (not mentioning any names) who was on this bullshit when we were the best team the East, nobody wants this team to be bad. Nobody. The fact is, they are bad. We have to play that hand.

 

[Tawnos]

@JHS,

I happen to agree with you for the most part. I bet you're mid-40's/early 50's. Our generation does not understand tanking; I mean, we understand why, but it goes against everything we were taught as young athletes, students, and people in the working world. We were taught, if someone is beating you, work harder to get better. That's not the way it is these days. Now, it's, if someone is beating you, find a way to go somewhere else where you'll be the best. Instead of working harder, look for the handout.

It's the same thing with the Rangers here. The people around here think "winning the lottery" and drafting high is the only way to compete. I guess actually drafting well and trading well isn't possible. Lounging around and waiting for your savior to come via lottery is just the way it is now. It's utterly pathetic. But fits right in this world where people aren't that emotionally attached to their teams unless they're winning these days. So what if "my team" sucks for a decade; I'll just find something else to do until "my team" is "winning" again.

The Rangers are fairly new to this party. The Garden still cared about season tickets and trying to always be competitive until relatively recently. That's why ticket prices were never all that high compared to the rest of the league, even in expansion cities. Now, New York has caught up with the rest of the country with who's actually buying the tickets. It's not the guy who wants to go 40+ nights any more. That guy's been priced out. The league now caters to bandwagon ****face who drops $400 three times a season, and could care the **** less when the team is tanking.

Unfortunately, the millennials on here are perfectly fine with the tanking for the 20% chance it actually will pay off with a Cup. Because actually finishing 5th or 6th, and winning a round or two in the playoffs gives them no joy at all. They'd rather suck *** for 20 years and get ONE bite at the apple than having that chance every year. That's what grade inflation and participation trophies does to the brain.

Love ya bud, but the bold is absolute garbage.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

@JHS,

I happen to agree with you for the most part. I bet you're mid-40's/early 50's. Our generation does not understand tanking; I mean, we understand why, but it goes against everything we were taught as young athletes, students, and people in the working world. We were taught, if someone is beating you, work harder to get better. That's not the way it is these days. Now, it's, if someone is beating you, find a way to go somewhere else where you'll be the best. Instead of working harder, look for the handout.

It's the same thing with the Rangers here. The people around here think "winning the lottery" and drafting high is the only way to compete. I guess actually drafting well and trading well isn't possible. Lounging around and waiting for your savior to come via lottery is just the way it is now. It's utterly pathetic. But fits right in this world where people aren't that emotionally attached to their teams unless they're winning these days. So what if "my team" sucks for a decade; I'll just find something else to do until "my team" is "winning" again.

The Rangers are fairly new to this party. The Garden still cared about season tickets and trying to always be competitive until relatively recently. That's why ticket prices were never all that high compared to the rest of the league, even in expansion cities. Now, New York has caught up with the rest of the country with who's actually buying the tickets. It's not the guy who wants to go 40+ nights any more. That guy's been priced out. The league now caters to bandwagon ****face who drops $400 three times a season, and could care the **** less when the team is tanking.

Unfortunately, the millennials on here are perfectly fine with the tanking for the 20% chance it actually will pay off with a Cup. Because actually finishing 5th or 6th, and winning a round or two in the playoffs gives them no joy at all. They'd rather suck *** for 20 years and get ONE bite at the apple than having that chance every year. That's what grade inflation and participation trophies does to the brain.

The irony is that millenials are sup[posed to be the "Gimme, gimme" impatient generation.

Yet you're complaining because we can be ok with planning and building something while sacrificing for a year or two.

You and your generation were sold a bunch of bs about loyalty and about working hard being inextricably linked to GUARANTEED success. It isn't, it wasn't, it will never be. We all saw the 30+ year "here's your watch" suckers in retirement.

Loyalty to a degree is very valuable. Loyalty to the degree you're espousing is often foolish and naively idealistic. You can thank the upper class people in your generation for countless decades of disloyalty and taking advantage of the working class for this.

Their greed is what inevitably woke everyone the hell up. Now we still have the same greedy bastards at the top (They include millenials bc being a greedy asshole is not the exclusive domain of baby boomers), they just profit off of a wider net of people for a shorter period of time as turnover continues to happen at a faster rate than ever.

How many athletes had to get totally f***ed over before athletes in general said "f*** it" and started choosing the money and championships over loyalty to an organization that sees them as a source of ticket revenue and nothing more.

The pendulum has swung a bit too far in the opposite direction where too many are demanding handouts and refusing to do a basic level of decent work.

But too many does not = an entire generation.

Half of what you said was utter bs. No attachment unless we're winning? U do any studies to verify this?

Lose for 20 years for 1 bite at the apple? Really? Where on EARTH did you see anyone even hint at being ok with this?

Ticket prices are up bc of bandwagoners? Really? Then why aren't the prices back down now that the team has sucked for two years? Dolan is a greedy, disloyal asshole, that's why prices are through the roof. Ditto for the PSL giants and jets

Many aspects of your post are just a false, ageist, bs narrative predicated on vague, unproven generalizations.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

The irony is that millenials are sup[posed to be the "Gimme, gimme" impatient generation.

Yet you're complaining because we can be ok with planning and building something while sacrificing for a year or two.

You and your generation were sold a bunch of bs about loyalty and about working hard being inextricably linked to GUARANTEED success. It isn't, it wasn't, it will never be. We all saw the 30+ year "here's your watch" suckers in retirement.

Loyalty to a degree is very valuable. Loyalty to the degree you're espousing is often foolish and naively idealistic. You can thank the upper class people in your generation for countless decades of disloyalty and taking advantage of the working class for this.

Their greed is what inevitably woke everyone the hell up. Now we still have the same greedy bastards at the top (They include millenials bc being a greedy ******* is not the exclusive domain of baby boomers), they just profit off of a wider net of people for a shorter period of time as turnover continues to happen at a faster rate than ever.

How many athletes had to get totally ****ed over before athletes in general said "**** it" and started choosing the money and championships over loyalty to an organization that sees them as a source of ticket revenue and nothing more.

The pendulum has swung a bit too far in the opposite direction where too many are demanding handouts and refusing to do a basic level of decent work.

But too many does not = an entire generation.

Half of what you said was utter bs. No attachment unless we're winning? U do any studies to verify this?

Lose for 20 years for 1 bite at the apple? Really? Where on EARTH did you see anyone even hint at being ok with this?

Ticket prices are up bc of bandwagoners? Really? Then why aren't the prices back down now that the team has sucked for two years? Dolan is a greedy, disloyal *******, that's why prices are through the roof. Ditto for the PSL giants and jets

Many aspects of your post are just a false, ageist, bs narrative predicated on vague, unproven generalizations.

I wish I could like posts. RIP in pieces, damn.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Love ya bud, but the bold is absolute garbage.

Agreed, I’m in my 50’s and I’m as pro-tank as anyone on this site. It has nothing to do with being a particular generation.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Wants to root for a team that caps out as a 2nd round gatekeeper.

Complains about grade inflation and participation ribbons.

You know what’s a better bit of advice than “work hard”?

Look at what is successful and do that. What you’re suggesting does not fall in line with this.

Also if you’re going to complain about people detaching themselves from the team because they suck, you’ve come to the right place.

 

[JHS]

Yikes.....I just completely disagree with almost everything here. But I'll point out two points where you're beyond just incorrect.

Dolan may be a ****ty person, but he is a good owner when it comes to the Rangers. He is hands off and lets the team spend to the cap every year, while not caring if we buyout salaries whenever necessary. He is a horrid owner when it comes to the Knicks. But don't confuse the two since his relationship with each respective org is essentially night and day. If we get an owner that ends up being hands on, you'll see the huge downside to that.

Second, the Rangers are not an attractive FA destination? Is this a serious statement? To start, bad FA signings does not = unattractive market, so that point is just straight moot. What I find interesting is you really want to sign FA's, yet you're upset about FA's the Rangers have signed in the past. You would think someone who thinks they've been idiots (which I completely agree with), would want them to show some restraint.

In addition, the Rangers are almost unanimously agreed upon to be the most attractive team for FA's in the USA. Maybe Montreal and Toronto have allure for players from Canada, so I wouldn't say the whole NHL, but for USA teams, undoubtedly. I mean, one needs to look no further than the past several decades when nearly every major FA the Rangers wanted signed here. Add in recent freebies like Hayes, Vesey and to a lesser extent Gilroy and many of the young guys who make it to FA and that basically everyone in the league wants end up as Rangers. I don't mean to sound harsh here, but it's pretty delusional to think the Rangers aren't an attractive market for players. I mean...from all reports, Panarin will be here if we give him the money he wants and we absolutely blow right now.

Also, a bit of a side note, but I wish you would chill with the exclamation points. It makes it seem like you're screaming at me or just straight up enraged. I know it's the tendency these days and as a millennial I too overuse them, but not in the context you do. It's actually hard to read because it's basically like I'm being yelled at.

I don’t think the Rangers are an attractive free agent destination because they never get a good free agent and most of the free agents around in today’s NHL are not really players whom I’d want. That being said, it’s fairly obvious the Rangers are not an attractive place when they probably won’t be competitive for many years to come.

Dolan is a disaster and I’m sorry I don’t agree he’s a good owner. He’s never cared about the Rangers- he barely cares about sports!

I did not know we were a literary society in here. I continue to come under fire for the way I post. I just don’t get it!

 

[JHS]

There really are no words for how completely and totally horrible some of these points are.

“Both Dolan’s teams suck!!!!” Oh, wow, two WHOLE years without playoffs after making several deep runs over the course of 6 years? Disgusting! You realize that sports are cyclical, yeah? We haven’t been some **** team, this is what happens when you go all in to win and your core pieces age. And when your core pieces aren’t Crosby or Ovechkin...well...it makes it even harder.

The part about GMs and coaches is pathetically pushing a narrative you want to push. Sather was our GM for how long? Then he retired. Framing that as “going through two GMs!!!!” makes you sound like a child. And the coaches? Most teams are done with a coach after five years or so. A guy like Tortz in Nashville is the exception. You wanna see a team that goes through coaches, look at Edmonton, Ottawa, or Arizona, then get back to me.

Saying free agents won’t come here is just utterly ridiculous. Do you remember the early 2000s? Free agents care about one thing above all else - money. And we have money. If we want a guy in FA, we’ll get him if we really want him.

The idea of getting a free agent to sign here in the next several years is far more comical than anything I wrote. The organization is headed backwards for years to come. Imagine trying to sell that to any free agent! The only way any of these guys are coming here is to overpay. I’m painfully aware of the mid 2000’s. As I recall those years they were filled with the Rangers highly overpaying for other teams washed up/ past their prime talent. Is that really the direction you want the team to go down?

 

[McRanger]

Love ya bud, but the bold is absolute garbage.

Just the bold? That entire post made me regret having eyes.

 

[JHS]

@JHS,

I happen to agree with you for the most part. I bet you're mid-40's/early 50's. Our generation does not understand tanking; I mean, we understand why, but it goes against everything we were taught as young athletes, students, and people in the working world. We were taught, if someone is beating you, work harder to get better. That's not the way it is these days. Now, it's, if someone is beating you, find a way to go somewhere else where you'll be the best. Instead of working harder, look for the handout.

It's the same thing with the Rangers here. The people around here think "winning the lottery" and drafting high is the only way to compete. I guess actually drafting well and trading well isn't possible. Lounging around and waiting for your savior to come via lottery is just the way it is now. It's utterly pathetic. But fits right in this world where people aren't that emotionally attached to their teams unless they're winning these days. So what if "my team" sucks for a decade; I'll just find something else to do until "my team" is "winning" again.

The Rangers are fairly new to this party. The Garden still cared about season tickets and trying to always be competitive until relatively recently. That's why ticket prices were never all that high compared to the rest of the league, even in expansion cities. Now, New York has caught up with the rest of the country with who's actually buying the tickets. It's not the guy who wants to go 40+ nights any more. That guy's been priced out. The league now caters to bandwagon ****face who drops $400 three times a season, and could care the **** less when the team is tanking.

Unfortunately, the millennials on here are perfectly fine with the tanking for the 20% chance it actually will pay off with a Cup. Because actually finishing 5th or 6th, and winning a round or two in the playoffs gives them no joy at all. They'd rather suck *** for 20 years and get ONE bite at the apple than having that chance every year. That's what grade inflation and participation trophies does to the brain.

Thanks for having my back. I’m a little younger than you guessed but you are in the ball park. Of note, I’m not against being bad. I’ve argued that generational talent is a key piece moving forward. My only issue with so many posters here is exactly what you mentioned- this concept that the only way to rebuild is just to tank and be awful for years and years and years. I agree it’s a totally pathetic, non compete type mindset and it’s really sad. Beyond that, developing players in an awful environment where losing is encouraged by the fan base is just insane! How do these guys learn to win? Even more so, every NHL player wants to win and has committed their lives to winning. They will always want to win. It’s incredibly awkward that some of these people want the team to lose and expect the players to lose too. I won’t got down that path. I’m a fan- I root for the team to win!

 

[Tawnos]

Thanks for having my back. I’m a little younger than you guessed but you are in the ball park. Of note, I’m not against being bad. I’ve argued that generational talent is a key piece moving forward. My only issue with so many posters here is exactly what you mentioned- this concept that the only way to rebuild is just to tank and be awful for years and years and years. I agree it’s a totally pathetic, non compete type mindset and it’s really sad. Beyond that, developing players in an awful environment where losing is encouraged by the fan base is just insane! How do these guys learn to win? Even more so, every NHL player wants to win and has committed their lives to winning. They will always want to win. It’s incredibly awkward that some of these people want the team to lose and expect the players to lose too. I won’t got down that path. I’m a fan- I root for the team to win!

I'm committed to the rebuild and being bad during it just comes with the territory, but I'm not committed to in monolithically (only acquire youth) and I do think there's a point where you have to try to move on from the rebuild and really try to compete in earnest. That patience has a shelf life that probably doesn't go any further than 3 years from now.

My point is that there is a definite middle ground between two extremes of what people perceive as "rebuild" and "competing"

I more took issue with the framing of it as a generational thing with all sorts of misinformed accusations about millenials.

 

[JHS]

I'm committed to the rebuild and being bad during it just comes with the territory, but I'm not committed to in monolithically (only acquire youth) and I do think there's a point where you have to try to move on from the rebuild and really try to compete in earnest. That patience has a shelf life that probably doesn't go any further than 3 years from now.

My point is that there is a definite middle ground between two extremes of what people perceive as "rebuild" and "competing"

I more took issue with the framing of it as a generational thing with all sorts of misinformed accusations about millenials.

So the idea of finding a middle ground of being competitive is really the key. Admittedly I’ve changed sides on this. I was in the tank camp early this season but I’ve watched what has happened to this team this year and this once proud franchise is now a total joke and that hurt as a long term fan. I also don’t believe there was a lot of development in some players this year( Chytil, Mika and Kreider the most obvious exception to this) and that lack of development seems troubling. I also just can’t count on this concept of drafting high and consistently getting young players working out. So many things have to go right( scouting, acquiring, developing, keeping players with similar windows, and contractual factors) that it’s literally impossible to plan this out the way lots on here want to believe.

My hunch is Gorton goes in the mix this off season and begins to acquire talent. I’d venture to say that draft day is a very active one and the Rangers look to bundle a lot of assets to move up into the top 5 maybe even top 2 and move this along. Kreider, Lias, a couple of early mid round pick, whatever it takes to move up should be in the works. Getting a generational talent will speed this along and takes out so many variables to rebuilding. It does not solve everything but it’s the most logical step to getting this team back on the path to being competitive. I think these types of moves( getting NHL ready talent that can slot right in,) is the path forward. I still want to develop the young talent but right now it feels like these young guys currently on the roster are being sent to the slaughterhouse and sacrificed in a terrible environment. That’s an awful feeling for me as a fan.

 

[McRanger]

Thanks for having my back. I’m a little younger than you guessed but you are in the ball park. Of note, I’m not against being bad. I’ve argued that generational talent is a key piece moving forward. My only issue with so many posters here is exactly what you mentioned- this concept that the only way to rebuild is just to tank and be awful for years and years and years. I agree it’s a totally pathetic, non compete type mindset and it’s really sad. Beyond that, developing players in an awful environment where losing is encouraged by the fan base is just insane! How do these guys learn to win? Even more so, every NHL player wants to win and has committed their lives to winning. They will always want to win. It’s incredibly awkward that some of these people want the team to lose and expect the players to lose too. I won’t got down that path. I’m a fan- I root for the team to win!

Winning isn't a foreign language or juggling. You don't learn it. You win when you are better than the other team or teams. Period.

Rebuilding isn't surrendering, its a tactical retreat. Its losing the battle to have a better chance to win the war. The idea that we should continue down a path towards perpetual mediocrity, which really is the "easy thing" to do, is more of a surrender than taking the hard path of rebuilding.

 

[JHS]

Winning isn't a foreign language or juggling. You don't learn it. You win when you are better than the other team or teams. Period.

Rebuilding isn't surrendering, its a tactical retreat. Its losing the battle to have a better chance to win the war. The idea that we should continue down a path towards perpetual mediocrity, which really is the "easy thing" to do, is more of a surrender than taking the hard path of rebuilding.

Really? You don’t think players need to learn to win? Winning does not just happen! Losing can stick with guys for a long time. These are professional athletes who want to win. If you don’t believe winning is learned just look at this year’s Ranger team. They can’t hold leads or win close games.

Why do teams who want to win the cup always acquire veteran leadership at the deadline? Look at the Rangers in 94. They acquired loads of experienced winners to get them the cup. Why? Probably because the management knew that winning must be lived in order for players to understand what it takes to actually win.

 

[Tawnos]

So the idea of finding a middle ground of being competitive is really the key. Admittedly I’ve changed sides on this. I was in the tank camp early this season but I’ve watched what has happened to this team this year and this once proud franchise is now a total joke and that hurt as a long term fan. I also don’t believe there was a lot of development in some players this year( Chytil, Mika and Kreider the most obvious exception to this) and that lack of development seems troubling. I also just can’t count on this concept of drafting high and consistently getting young players working out. So many things have to go right( scouting, acquiring, developing, keeping players with similar windows, and contractual factors) that it’s literally impossible to plan this out the way lots on here want to believe.

My hunch is Gorton goes in the mix this off season and begins to acquire talent. I’d venture to say that draft day is a very active one and the Rangers look to bundle a lot of assets to move up into the top 5 maybe even top 2 and move this along. Kreider, Lias, a couple of early mid round pick, whatever it takes to move up should be in the works. Getting a generational talent will speed this along and takes out so many variables to rebuilding. It does not solve everything but it’s the most logical step to getting this team back on the path to being competitive. I think these types of moves( getting NHL ready talent that can slot right in,) is the path forward. I still want to develop the young talent but right now it feels like these young guys currently on the roster are being sent to the slaughterhouse and sacrificed in a terrible environment. That’s an awful feeling for me as a fan.

Well, the middle ground is finding assets who will help the future, regardless of how it affects the present. That means potentially signing a UFA like Panarin, but also selling off short-term assets like pending UFAs. It means exploring trading your young (25-28) players who aren't top-end guys -like Strome, Vesey, Namestnikov, and maybe even Skjei- while looking at trading for higher quality players in the same age group, even if that means giving up some of the more green youth or even draft picks.

The Rangers young players are NOT in a terrible environment, largely due to Quinn. I will dispute that every day. It's not losing that makes for a bad culture. It's the way the losing is handled.

 

[NCRanger]

Drafting well and trading well is not only possible, it's the only way to build. The Rangers still have to do that regardless of where they pick, see Edmonton.

You get this. Not everyone else does. The mindset that any draft pick is going to be a valuable asset is what drives me up the wall. 7OA should not be a player like Lias Andersson. If a player like Lias Andersson is best player available at 7OA, maybe the draft isn't the best way to restock talent.

You talk about winning a round or two and how that apparently brings people no joy. First of all, that's completely untrue. Second, this team was NEVER winning a round or two. Not even if they tried to compete from July 1st on. It wasn't happening. The horses aren't there. This team was never making the 18-19 playoffs. I don't think it's that people don't care about making the playoffs. I think it's that you don't want to admit it just wasn't on the table.

Most likely true this year. Although, with a few breaks here or there, they aren't as far away as some think they are. Which is another issue altogether. On defense, the Rangers do seem to have a pretty decent potential "core" being developed. That's assuming Hajek is going to be as useful as he showed in his short time frame, DeAngelo continues to improve, Miller is a legitimate NHLer, and Rykov is as well. That's not a bad start, but without surrounding those guys with a decent team to start, the Edmonton mentality starts creeping into the picture.

With that in mind, it's less about the lottery pick and more about making long-term moves as opposed to short-term ones. I don't care that much if we pick 9th, 7th, 5th, or 1st. It is what it is. If we pick higher, great. We still have to make a good pick. And I'm not going to watch Rangers games and root for them to lose. I'll be ok with them losing in the situation they're in and not get high blood pressure over it, but I don't want them to lose. Again, it's not about that.

Question is, for how long?

Its about this: what were Kevin Hayes and Mats Zuccarello doing for this team? Sure, when we traded them we went from bad to awful, but we were still bad with them, and never making the playoffs with them. The short-term was already dead in the water, so why not explore long-term moves? I'd rather have the gamble that the picks we got help this team for 15 years over Zuccarello helping this team finish 6th in Metro instead of 8th for the next two years. And yes, it's a gamble. It's a "chance" as you say. That's precisely why you acquire as many picks as possible.

I was on record of being fine with trading Zuccarello. Not thrilled with getting rid of Hayes. There's more talent there than most of this board sees. Maybe Lemieux will fill a role desperately needed and a 2c appears magically? Who knows, but the team is desperately thin through the middle.

Also, it's not just about this year. It's about how long does a rebuild take?

I don't know how you can read this board and question the emotional investment of everyone here. We're obviously not "finding other things to do" while the team sucks because we're here arguing about it.

Really not discussing people who post on this board. What are we, maybe 2% of the entire Ranger fanbase? I'm talking about the average "fan" who loses interest when the team fails to make the playoffs for three/four years in a row. We used to be "better" than the Piles "fan" who only cared when they were winning, or Devil "fan" who just hates the Rangers. It's not that way any more. Ranger fans aren't the same loyal clan than always stayed true regardless.

Outside of one guy (not mentioning any names) who was on this bull**** when we were the best team the East, nobody wants this team to be bad. Nobody. The fact is, they are bad. We have to play that hand.

They are bad, now. But what's the actual plan to stop being bad?

 

[JHS]

Well, the middle ground is finding assets who will help the future, regardless of how it affects the present. That means potentially signing a UFA like Panarin, but also selling off short-term assets like pending UFAs. It means exploring trading your young (25-28) players who aren't top-end guys -like Strome, Vesey, Namestnikov, and maybe even Skjei- while looking at trading for higher quality players in the same age group, even if that means giving up some of the more green youth or even draft picks.

The Rangers young players are NOT in a terrible environment, largely due to Quinn. I will dispute that every day. It's not losing that makes for a bad culture. It's the way the losing is handled.

I completely agree that Quinn is terrific and you are exactly right- the culture is not terrible. This team works hard but they still lose and that is not great in the long term. Furthermore, the real terrible environment seems to be in Hartford. That’s a problem!