Confirmed with Link: Rangers Sign Brendan Smith (4 years x $4.35M)

[True Blue]

I do not agree with that. I didn't like the Staal trade but I think a 2nd round pick was near Smiths value. I look at the 3rd round pick as a trading deadline premium paid to try out a player before "buying" him.

A third and a second for a 3rd pairing defenseman? Too rich for me.

 

[True Blue]

Seems like Wings fans really had him pegged. Underwhelming to say the least.

Ahh...there it is. Underwhelming. Thank you. Was trying to come up with the right description.

 

[Mac n Gs]

He's been mostly good besides the stupid penalties.

 

[NickyFotiu]

A third and a second for a 3rd pairing defenseman? Too rich for me.

The cost was a premium which is expected for trades at the trade deadline. By paying the premium it allowed us to try him out for around 20 games plus playoffs before deciding whether we should re-sign him. I wish it was two third round picks instead but we do not have any way to control the NHL free trade deadline market. Brian Boyle who has spent much of his career on the 4th line and is 32 years old went for a better 2nd round pick plus a player.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

I think he's been good and that he's a #4, very versatile, hope we re-sign him.

 

[Thirty One]

I think he's been good and that he's a #4, very versatile, hope we re-sign him.

Ahh...yes. Good. Thank you. Was looking for the right description, but I forgot the word good.

 

[Off Sides]

That was a bad plan, It's like leasing an okay car by paying too much to lease it only to be left with the option of either turning it for nothing or buying it at that point for more than it's worth while knowing the buyout price all along.

There was never going to be a great option within that deal.

I like Smith, even more so as a 3rd pair LD on a 3rd pair LD contract, that is the only way this ends up turning said car into something that may be worth almost as much as was paid in total.

 

[McD37]

I would like to see an actual argument for why is he 3rd pairing guy? He is getting Top4 minutes and doing OK except those penalties.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

He's played the minutes of a 4-5 tweener in his career and outplayed that usage every season, he's clearly atleast a #4 imo.

Edit: Adding this

 

[True Blue]

The cost was a premium which is expected for trades at the trade deadline. By paying the premium it allowed us to try him out for around 20 games plus playoffs before deciding whether we should re-sign him. I wish it was two third round picks instead but we do not have any way to control the NHL free trade deadline market. Brian Boyle who has spent much of his career on the 4th line and is 32 years old went for a better 2nd round pick plus a player.

This organization could not afford to throw away a 2nd and a third to try someone out. Not with the ragged shape the system is in.

 

[True Blue]

He's played the minutes of a 4-5 tweener in his career and outplayed that usage every season, he's clearly atleast a #4 imo.

Depends on your view point. The other popular view point is that he is exactly what Detroit showed him to be. A third pairing defenseman who in a pinch can play the # 4 role. But should not be used as such over the long haul.

At least a # 4? Where are we taking this? If on his worst day he is a #4 defenseman, what is an average day? #2? #3?

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

Depends on your view point. The other popular view point is that he is exactly what Detroit showed him to be. A third pairing defenseman who in a pinch can play the # 4 role. But should not be used as such over the long haul.

At least a # 4? Where are we taking this? If on his worst day he is a #4 defenseman, what is an average day? #2? #3?

I'm not saying he's a #4 "on his worst day", i'm saying he's on average at worst a #4 based on the numbers we have recorded.

The numbers we have tell us that he outplayed his usage in Detroit and his usage was on average that of a 4-5 tweener, that tells us he's atleast a #4. I'm not really sure what you mean by "The other popular view point is that he is exactly what Detroit showed him to be." - They showed him to be a good D-man.

 

[csk]

Thanks for the input everyone!

 

[RGY]

He has had two bad games as a Ranger, last night being one of them. And even then i disagree with the holding the stick penalty as he was hooked first.

He has been good and the edge he plays with will be needed in the playoffs.

 

[Buchnevich]

Say what you want about the price to acquire Smith, but at the end of the day we acquired our 3rd best dman. We needed more than Smith to be able to put out a competent 6 man D unit, but we can't put that on Smith.
A 3.5x3 would make sense for us so the left side of the D for the next three years would consist of McDonagh-Skjei-Smith at a reasonable price. That left side is pretty strong and if one goes down with an injury, Ryan Graves can be a callup.
The departure of Staal and Holden is necessary for that to happen. I'm not big on putting dmen on their weak side.

 

[True Blue]

I'm not saying he's a #4 "on his worst day", i'm saying he's on average at worst a #4 based on the numbers we have recorded.

So on average if he is at worst a #4, what on average is he at medium or best?

The numbers we have tell us that he outplayed his usage in Detroit and his usage was on average that of a 4-5 tweener, that tells us he's atleast a #4.

What numbers? Corsi? Per 60? You are extrapolating data and coming up with an answer as to what he is? Utilizing flawed stats as sole evidence that he is playing above his level? Are we back to this? Extrapolation does not mean real play. It means extrapolation.

I'm not really sure what you mean by "The other popular view point is that he is exactly what Detroit showed him to be." - They showed him to be a good D-man.

I mean exactly what I say. The opposing point of view is not as rosy. It does not show at worst a #4, it states that in an absolute pinch he can play as a #4. But over the longer period of time, he is what he is. And should be utilized as such.

 

[True Blue]

Say what you want about the price to acquire Smith, but at the end of the day we acquired our 3rd best dman.

That says more about the sad shape of the Rangers defense, than Smith's actual level of performance.e

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

So on average if he is at worst a #4, what on average is he at medium or best?

What numbers? Corsi? Per 60? You are extrapolating data and coming up with an answer as to what he is? Utilizing flawed stats as sole evidence that he is playing above his level? Are we back to this? Extrapolation does not mean real play. It means extrapolation.

I mean exactly what I say. The opposing point of view is not as rosy. It does not show at worst a #4, it states that in an absolute pinch he can play as a #4. But over the longer period of time, he is what he is. And should be utilized as such.

I'd say he's a #3 at best.

'all' the numbers combined with what i've seen of him myself over the years. For Smith i've been looking at the numbers i posted earlier by Carolyn, she uses a weighted Corsi model and P/60, i've also looked at his Rel-numbers from Corsica and i've looked at his WAR, GAR and XPM from DTMAboutHeart's model.

If i'm using flawed stats then what are you using? Your eyes and brain with perfect recall and perfect analysing ability?

And yeah, i'm saying that over a longer period of time Brendan Smith is a #4 and should be used as a #4.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Say what you want about the price to acquire Smith, but at the end of the day we acquired our 3rd best dman. We needed more than Smith to be able to put out a competent 6 man D unit, but we can't put that on Smith.
A 3.5x3 would make sense for us so the left side of the D for the next three years would consist of McDonagh-Skjei-Smith at a reasonable price. That left side is pretty strong and if one goes down with an injury, Ryan Graves can be a callup.
The departure of Staal and Holden is necessary for that to happen. I'm not big on putting dmen on their weak side.

 

[Raspewtin]

I'd say he's a #3 at best.

'all' the numbers combined with what i've seen of him myself over the years. For Smith i've been looking at the numbers i posted earlier by Carolyn, she uses a weighted Corsi model and P/60, i've also looked at his Rel-numbers from Corsica and i've looked at his WAR, GAR and XPM from DTMAboutHeart's model.

If i'm using flawed stats then what are you using? Your eyes and brain with perfect recall and perfect analysing ability?

And yeah, i'm saying that over a longer period of time Brendan Smith is a #4 and should be used as a #4.

Stop wasting your time, honestly.

 

[RGY]

Staal worst player on the ice last night.

Klein and Girardi putting out below average performances as usual.

But sure scrutinize the hell out of Smith. Makes sense.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Say what you want about the price to acquire Smith, but at the end of the day we acquired our 3rd best dman. We needed more than Smith to be able to put out a competent 6 man D unit, but we can't put that on Smith.
A 3.5x3 would make sense for us so the left side of the D for the next three years would consist of McDonagh-Skjei-Smith at a reasonable price. That left side is pretty strong and if one goes down with an injury, Ryan Graves can be a callup.
The departure of Staal and Holden is necessary for that to happen. I'm not big on putting dmen on their weak side.

Good thing Smith is a RD then. Just because he is left-handed, doesn't automatically make him a LD

 

[NYR]

Smith's performance has come back to bite the corsi guys in the ass yet again lol.

He's just OK.

I'll pass on the new contract..

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Smith's performance has come back to bite the corsi guys in the ass yet again lol.

He's just OK.

I'll pass on the new contract..

So your subjective assessment of Smith is enough to discredit the Corsi guys?

 

[NYR]

So your subjective assessment of Smith is enough to discredit the Corsi guys?

Smith and the LA Kings told me to tell you.. Don't be dopey