Confirmed with Link: Rangers Sign Brendan Smith (4 years x $4.35M)

[Raspewtin]

I happen to agree with you for the most part. I think if he ends up here he'll start out paired with McDonagh and by November will be on the 2nd pairing.

In favor of who, in this scenario?

Assume Girardi isn't here.

 

[Trxjw]

In favor of who, in this scenario?

Assume Girardi isn't here.

Whoever is available. I can't even hazard a guess as to what the blue line will look like next fall. However, I don't think Shattenkirk will excel with McDonagh, and I don't see the coaches leaning on him as McDonagh's partner for match-ups.

 

[Off Sides]

Probably does not answer the quoted with what is perceived as good analysis but...

You've been repeating these points a lot but not following it up with anything. Why aren't they top pair/top 4 quality?

I think by the standard that there are 60 top pair D in the league Shattenkirk fits. My feeling of his effectiveness in that role, he's hardly ever played as much even strength minutes as what a good top pair player does and when he does it's not to great results. Especially important in the playoffs in my opinion, the teams that are winning cups have a player that can put up some gaudy minutes, in all situations, and excel in them, and they pair him with someone who can keep up in those even strength minutes.

I don't see him as a player who is going to gain more than he gives up at even strength in terms of goals for and against in his current role or in a larger role. He has trouble limiting scoring against in the minutes he gets. He is a player two team now have sheltered, they had/have better options, but I don't think that means he would necessarily excel in that role if those teams did not have better options. I see him sort of in the light of Yandle, he technically can be top pair, but coaches are going to want to put a better defensive player against the other teams best players at even strength.

Smith is very good playoff performer according to Red Wings fans. And I really do not know why Smith is not a Top4 D. Since the trade he is playing 20:30 a game and is doing well. He is exactly what he was supposed to be and it is exactly what Rangers needed.

I have some faith that Smith can excel as a top 4 at even strength. Yet similarly he's never really played those minutes before, has been on the Rangers for 13 games. I think he has played well but until he does it for a long time and looks as good as he has, I think the projection as a potential top 4D comes from the Rangers lack of other options.

They've run arguably bottom pair players in every spot other than McD for how long now? I mean Holden, Clendening, are in many ways upgrades to what they use. Smith is likely in the top 120D in the league, but ideally I don't think his offense or production would really fit that over the long run. To me he is sort of like Fast but a defensemen, people want Fast on the 4th line but other than his "vanilla" game and his production lacking he is a fine top 9 player if no other options are available, or if Glass is the other option.

______

I believe because the Rangers have put out this D core as long as they have we often see any improvement as a big improvement. It also leads us to attempt to extrapolate that a player would excel in an expanded role.

Overall I am fine with either or both players, they both have talents and a skill set the Rangers could certainly use, but the contracts really need to fit what they are, and the Rangers have to put them in the right spots rather than putting them above their heads, as if either flounder playing in an expanded role it just leaves them with more contracts that do not fit the player. The "what if it does not work" need to be figured into the contracts.

 

[McD37]

I have some faith that Smith can excel as a top 4 at even strength. Yet similarly he's never really played those minutes before, has been on the Rangers for 13 games. I think he has played well but until he does it for a long time and looks as good as he has, I think the projection as a potential top 4D comes from the Rangers lack of other options.

They've run arguably bottom pair players in every spot other than McD for how long now? I mean Holden, Clendening, are in many ways upgrades to what they use. Smith is likely in the top 120D in the league, but ideally I don't think his offense or production would really fit that over the long run. To me he is sort of like Fast but a defensemen, people want Fast on the 4th line but other than his "vanilla" game and his production lacking he is a fine top 9 player if no other options are available, or if Glass is the other option.

______

I believe because the Rangers have put out this D core as long as they have we often see any improvement as a big improvement. It also leads us to attempt to extrapolate that a player would excel in an expanded role.

Overall I am fine with either or both players, they both have talents and a skill set the Rangers could certainly use, but the contracts really need to fit what they are, and the Rangers have to put them in the right spots rather than putting them above their heads, as if either flounder playing in an expanded role it just leaves them with more contracts that do not fit the player. The "what if it does not work" need to be figured into the contracts.

What I used to find interesting with Smith is, he was not a key player in Detroit, was not even consistent Top4 guy for them, he was HS multiple times, but some Wings fans on HF, some of Wings fans I know were always confident that this guy has everything to be very good Top4 guy. So now watching him play regularly I see exactly what these guys used to tell me about him and I am almost sure the struggles he had in Detroit was not about talent but about inabillity of Detroit coaching staff to get the best out of him.

I think your Fast comparision is pretty good, Smith looks like he has talent to be good point producer but for some reason he just does not put up many points. But he is D, it is not his job. Rangers brought him to be good two-way Top4 D, to improve their defense mobility, puck-moving, shot-suppressing ability, adding a bit of grit and he really did.

 

[TheTakedown]

What I used to find interesting with Smith is, he was not a key player in Detroit, was not even consistent Top4 guy for them, he was HS multiple times, but some Wings fans on HF, some of Wings fans I know were always confident that this guy has everything to be very good Top4 guy. So now watching him play regularly I see exactly what these guys used to tell me about him and I am almost sure the struggles he had in Detroit was not about talent but about inabillity of Detroit coaching staff to get the best out of him.

I think your Fast comparision is pretty good, Smith looks like he has talent to be good point producer but for some reason he just does not put up many points. But he is D, it is not his job. Rangers brought him to be good two-way Top4 D, to improve their defense mobility, puck-moving, shot-suppressing ability, adding a bit of grit and he really did.

That's exactly what I see out of him as well. Detroit has been a disaster in terms of the actual talent level on that team--there isn't much else left, they're in a similar spot as the Devils are with the exception of Larkin, Athanasiou, Mantha, and some vet forwards who haven't dropped off yet...

Smith has been put into a position to succeed finally, and we are seeing it now.

If he can become a left handed Stralman, then he should be locked up for 4 years, 5 years if the cap hit can come down

 

[True Blue]

Smith has been put into a position to succeed finally, and we are seeing it now.

If he can become a left handed Stralman, then he should be locked up for 4 years, 5 years if the cap hit can come down

One can blame coaches only so much. Smith has not been a 2nd pairing defenseman for most of his career. He is now 28. Could he be another Stralman? Sure, anything is possible. But the odds are against it. I have not yet seen what qualifies as a bona fide 2nd pair defenseman.

 

[Edge]

Smith has been a very solid player for this team, but he's probably a better third pairing guy in an ideal situation. That's not to say he can't step up, but staying at that level for longer periods of time is why defenseman of that calibre are in such high demand.

It also doesn't help that the Rangers defense has been all over the map this season, with McD and Skjei being mostly excused from that blanket statement. It tends to make a guy like Smith stand out that much more.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

One can blame coaches only so much. Smith has not been a 2nd pairing defenseman for most of his career. He is now 28. Could he be another Stralman? Sure, anything is possible. But the odds are against it. I have not yet seen what qualifies as a bona fide 2nd pair defenseman.

Well, he doesn't have to be a bona fide 2nd pair defenseman to be a top 4 defenseman on this team. Not like Girardi, Staal or Holden are bona fide anything so...

 

[True Blue]

Smith has been a very solid player for this team, but he's probably a better third pairing guy in an ideal situation. That's not to say he can't step up, but staying at that level for longer periods of time is why defenseman of that calibre are in such high demand.

That is exactly right. He is a third pairing defenseman who can step up and play the #4 role in a pinch. If no pinch, he is a third pairing guy. Same as Holden. Having either or play on the second pair for a prolonged period of time says more about the overall putrid state of the Rangers starting defensemen.

 

[True Blue]

Well, he doesn't have to be a bona fide 2nd pair defenseman to be a top 4 defenseman on this team. Not like Girardi, Staal or Holden are bona fide anything so...

No, but that is an issue. Being second pairing on THIS team does not bode well for the overall team in the playoffs.

 

[NYR Viper]

I think the key takeaway that I have seen from Smith is that he fits THIS team very well and the style they play. He's physical, moves the puck well, moves his feet to help the attack and has good gap control which is key for this type of system where the forwards have so much speed and get back quickly.

Whether he is a #5 or #4 is pure semantics as he looks good here in this system. It will all come down to who he plays well with. The fact that he can play both sides is invaluable as well.

Re-sign him. 4 years @ 2.75-3m

 

[Raspewtin]

Well, he doesn't have to be a bona fide 2nd pair defenseman to be a top 4 defenseman on this team. Not like Girardi, Staal or Holden are bona fide anything so...

It doesn't change the fact that he is one, in terms of skill, either.

 

[True Blue]

It doesn't change the fact that he is one, in terms of skill, either.

Uh-uh. In your opinion, not fact.

 

[True Blue]

Re-sign him. 4 years @ 2.75-3m

I would take him at that price. No issues.

 

[offdacrossbar]

I think the key takeaway that I have seen from Smith is that he fits THIS team very well and the style they play. He's physical, moves the puck well, moves his feet to help the attack and has good gap control which is key for this type of system where the forwards have so much speed and get back quickly.

Whether he is a #5 or #4 is pure semantics as he looks good here in this system. It will all come down to who he plays well with. The fact that he can play both sides is invaluable as well.

Re-sign him. 4 years @ 2.75-3m

when sloted in the appropriate spot, he will be a good solid addition long term.

as a 3rd pair guy who plays the pk, i like him. hes for sure a bottom 3 guy. prob a solid 4 or very good 5.

hes not really an offensive guy either. he adds some grit and snarl and size and is definitely mobil enough to play the av game.

if next years defense includes both smith and shattenkirk and doesnt include 2 of staal, DG and KK im quite alright with it.

 

[TheTakedown]

when sloted in the appropriate spot, he will be a good solid addition long term.

as a 3rd pair guy who plays the pk, i like him. hes for sure a bottom 3 guy. prob a solid 4 or very good 5.

hes not really an offensive guy either. he adds some grit and snarl and size and is definitely mobil enough to play the av game.

if next years defense includes both smith and shattenkirk and doesnt include 2 of staal, DG and KK im quite alright with it.

Concur on the bold

 

[TheMule93]

ISmith looks like he has talent to be good point producer but for some reason he just does not put up many points.

Det fan here. You brought up a great point here...ive always wondered why he doesn't put up more points. He's got the skating and puck skills to do so. I guess thats why he's always been seen has having low hockey IQ - just doesn't have the offensive instincts for the NHL level. He's always been labeled an offensive defenseman, going back to college. *shrug* he is what he is I guess. At least hes developed a nice physical defensive game over the years. Ain't afraid of anyone - he tried to fight chara in the playoffs bsck on 13-14 haha.

 

[Off Sides]

I would take him at that price. No issues.

It's likely going to take more than that.

His last deal was for 5.5M for two years. He is now a pending UFA.

It's kind of why I did not love the trade even if I liked the players. The two outcomes, Rangers traded what they did for a rental or they traded what they did for a player who is likely to get a cap hit that extends beyond what his performance likely can be during his next contract.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

It doesn't change the fact that he is one, in terms of skill, either.

I agree with you, i think he's a #4 at worst. Like, he was deployed as a 4-5 in Detroit and outplayed his usage every single season, that means he's better then a 4-5.

 

[TheTakedown]

It's likely going to take more than that.

His last deal was for 5.5M for two years. He is now a pending UFA.

It's kind of why I did not love the trade even if I liked the players. The two outcomes, Rangers traded what they did for a rental or they traded what they did for a player who is likely to get a cap hit that extends beyond what his performance likely can be during his next contract.

$4M * 4 Years is about right. I'd go $3.75 if he would go 5 years.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Not saying Smith is as good as Stralman but it seems he's getting the Stralman bias here. He doesn't put up points so he's only good for a 3rd pairing. I'm surprised of this bias against Smith though since he's somewhat physical and not European.

 

[True Blue]

Not saying Smith is as good as Stralman but it seems he's getting the Stralman bias here. He doesn't put up points so he's only good for a 3rd pairing. I'm surprised of this bias against Smith though since he's somewhat physical and not European.

There is no bias against him. Just a view as to where he belongs in the pecking order. Some see him as a bonafide 2nd pairing dman at worst. Some, like myself, think that he is a good third pairing guy who can play the # 4 role in a pinch.

Also, I kept reading about the physical edge that he has played with in Detroit. Where is it?

 

[Off Sides]

Not saying Smith is as good as Stralman but it seems he's getting the Stralman bias here. He doesn't put up points so he's only good for a 3rd pairing. I'm surprised of this bias against Smith though since he's somewhat physical and not European.

I don't really remember people saying Stralman was a 3rd pair guy, I thought it was more of a debate about him as a top pair player.

It's not that I am bashing Smith, I do like his game, just think the cap hit has to match what he is.

Let's say he is 2nd pair, that would rank him between 61 and 120 league wide among defenders. Currently 61st cap hit for defenders is 4.3M, 120th is 2.75M

If he is a lower end 2nd pair, he should get a cap hit nearer to that 2.75M but that is already what he is getting on his current deal.

If he gets a 4M hit, that puts him tied for 74th highest high end 2nd pair, At 3.5M, about 95th .

It's an area in the cap concerning defensemen where teams make some misjudgements with UFA deals, Gorges at 3.9, Ericsson 4.2, Emelin 3.85, Stoner 3.25, Fayne 3.6. No one including the team that signed those deals likely wants them at that sort of price. There are some good deals too Hjalmarsson, Martinez.

All the same it really does not matter, I doubt they traded what they did for him not to sign him, which he or his agent will likely also know, they'll also know the Rangers D situation, and there will be other teams interested if he makes it to free agent time, which he likely will as they are not going to sign him to expose him, so he pretty much has a good amount of leverage to get a nice contract regardless of where anyone ranks him.

My concern with all that is the operating procedure may seem different under Gorton, but it's not all that different in this case. The Rangers are still finding ways to make any outcome not ideal, other than if the player leaves money on the table and performs over that deal.

Just for the record, I had no issue with the Girardi contract when it was signed, but looking back on it I was pretty off. Teams sort of need to nail these UFA contracts for them not to become deals they'd rather not have. If that means missing out on the player, is it that worse? I'm not entirely sure of the answer, yet in some cases the answer has to be yes, but to me it just seems like leaving the options open, hoping someone can step up, or a trade comes about, maybe that is just me being risk adverse, or me seeing players like Skjei rise, but the later seems like a better option unless the contract really fits what the player is.

 

[Inferno]

i think smith is a 3 mil a year defenseman...overpay at 3.5

problem is..you cant overpay him..not with the albatross twins eating up over 10 mil in cap space.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I'm a big Smith fan but I really do view him as a good 3rd pairing guy. Ironically he is probably the 3rd best dman on our team currently. In an ideal situation we have Smith and Clendo as our 3rd pairing next season with McD and Brady playing ahead of Smith on the left side.