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Prospect Info: Rangers Prospects Thread (Stats in Post #1; Updated 12.14.18) *Part III*

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Edge said:
Not going to debate the nepotism thing anymore.

Frankly, it's a baseless claim.

Could be a completely useless pick, but I think we need proof to call it something more than that.
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If this pick wasn't based on nepotism, then what is it?
The only people that actually had Kjellberg on their radar were the Rangers
 
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He wasn't ranked anywhere that i'm aware, his junior numbers were really bad and his dad started working for NYR inside a year of him getting picked… Not sure how much more proof is needed here, not like anyone in the NYR organisation is ever going to admit it.
 
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Edge said:
We've already debated this ad nauseum. There's nothing new to add to the discussion that wasn't covered extensively at the time of the selection.

Correlation does not equal causation --- whether it's concerning a decision we love or detest.
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There are literally no other reasons to why the Rangers would take this kid outside of his dad. It made no sense then besides that and it makes no sense now
 
I don’t even care if it was a nepotism pick. For real. For instance, If his dad was the one who “discovered” Lundkvist (or some other Euro prospect) and drove our Euro scouting to push Gorton to make this pick then this being his reward for it and encouragement to do future discoveries is totally worth it!
 
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Rangers743 said:
There are literally no other reasons to why the Rangers would take this kid outside of his dad. It made no sense then besides that and it makes no sense now
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Unraked players being taken in the 6th and 7th is not that uncommon.

In the case of Kjellberg, he was ranked at mid-season and then dropped off. So he didn't completely come out of nowhere.

In the case of nepotism, this team has no history of going down that route --- not via trade, signings, or drafting.

Not with Lundqvist, Staal, Samuelsson, Howden, Hayes, Messier, or any number of players, coaches, or front office staff over the years who have sons, brothers, cousins, uncles, etc. with the team. We didn't even do it when we had a chance with a better prospect in Jack Drury within the same draft.

If people want to believe that this particular player was the exception, I can't stop them. But it's a leap at best.
 
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Amazing Kreiderman said:
Unranked players get picked a lot more than you think. Especially in the last 2 rounds.
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Players may be unranked and picked late, but Kjellberg was considered a non-prospect the minute he was drafted. Literally, nobody had even mentioned him until the Rangers took him.
If he went undrafted, nobody would be talking about him.
 
Rangers743 said:
Players may be unranked and picked late, but Kjellberg was considered a non-prospect the minute he was drafted. Literally, nobody had even mentioned him until the Rangers took him.
If he went undrafted, nobody would be talking about him.
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As Edge pointed out, he was ranked earlier in the season but this happens all the time. What if they drafted Kjellberg not because he's a scout's son, but because they saw more of him because of him being a scout's son? That could be the difference. I don't believe a professional organization like the Rangers would draft him only because of who his father is.
 
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Rangers743 said:
Players may be unranked and picked late, but Kjellberg was considered a non-prospect the minute he was drafted. Literally, nobody had even mentioned him until the Rangers took him.
If he went undrafted, nobody would be talking about him.
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We can probably make the same argument for 90 percent of the players taken in the 6th or 7th round.

Do we really think we'd be talking about Riley Hughes if we didn't draft him?

How many roundtable discussions are we having about Ty Taylor, Trey Fix-Wolansky, Ty Austin, or Josiah Slavin?

Case in point, one of those 4 names is one I just made up. And probably 99 percent of people couldn't tell me which without doing a google search.

Point being, we aren't usually talking about this kids anyway. Especially before they are drafted.
 
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Edge said:
Unraked players being taken in the 6th and 7th is not that uncommon.

In the case of Kjellberg, he was ranked at mid-season and then dropped off. So he didn't completely come out of nowhere.

In the case of nepotism, this team has no history of going down that route --- not via trade, signings, or drafting.

Not with Lundqvist, Staal, Samuelsson, Howden, Hayes, Messier, or any number of players, coaches, or front office staff over the years who have sons, brothers, cousins, uncles, etc. with the team. We didn't even do it when we had a chance with a better prospect in Jack Drury within the same draft.

If people want to believe that this particular player was the exception, I can't stop them. But it's a leap at best.
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I have not found anywhere where he was ranked.
Also just because a team hasn't done it before with other peoples family members, doesn't mean that JG and Clarke didn't want to do Kjellberg a favor and draft his son with what they thought was a throwaway pick
 
Rangers743 said:
I have not found anywhere where he was ranked.
Also just because a team hasn't done it before with other peoples family members, doesn't mean that JG and Clarke didn't want to do Kjellberg a favor and draft his son with what they thought was a throwaway pick
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I think the theory that JG and Clarke decided to make Kjellberg the first time they do so requires a significant leap of faith.

I think it also isn't helped by the fact that they didn't do it earlier in the draft with Drury.

I think it's further not helped by the fact that the team traded back into the 7th round to draft a player, so they clearly weren't viewing these late picks as "throwaways."

As for ranking, he was ranked 74th on the mid-term European rankings by CSB. You can find those rankings here, though you may have to play with the sorting feature - 2018 Draft Prospect Rankings | NHL Draft Prospect Rankings

And now I've officially rehashed everything that has already been discussed, even though I originally was not planning to do so.
 
Amazing Kreiderman said:
As Edge pointed out, he was ranked earlier in the season but this happens all the time. What if they drafted Kjellberg not because he's a scout's son, but because they saw more of him because of him being a scout's son? That could be the difference. I don't believe a professional organization like the Rangers would draft him only because of who his father is.
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If it had been for a player that has some promise or something decent that wouldn't be too bad.
Right now and I doubt this will change its literally just a throwaway pick that makes little sense besides ties to the Organization
 
Kjellberg falls more into Ranger trends of drafting big defensive defensemen and drafting falling talent with later round picks than it falls into the nepotism category, it can still be a bad pick, but the reasons for that are way different
 
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GeorgeKaplan said:
Kjellberg falls more into Ranger trends of drafting big defensive defensemen and drafting falling talent with later round picks than it falls into the nepotism category, it can still be a bad pick, but the reasons for that are way different
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And that's really the key.

It could be a HORRIBLE pick and very well might be. I'm actually not denying that. He would not have been my pick, I can tell you that much. But I think the nepotism thing is a stretch.

At worst, he's long-shot who we don't like as much as a different long-shot.
 
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Rangers743 said:
If it had been for a player that has some promise or something decent that wouldn't be too bad.
Right now and I doubt this will change its literally just a throwaway pick that makes little sense besides ties to the Organization
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Kjellberg is something decent. He was ranked earlier in the year. This is what happens every year. Ranked players go undrafted (Nando Eggenberger for instance, or Danila Galenyuk) while other unranked players get picked. But it's not as if Kjellberg was never ranked. He played for the national team at different age levels even. I'm not saying it's a good pick, but it's not a throwaway pick either. I wonder how many people in 2000 actually thought "Why draft a goalie? We already have a great goalie!" when we picked Lundqvist. When it comes to rounds 6 and 7, it's unpredictable. Oh, and speaking of rankings... Those rankings are from journalists and hobbyists. The same rankings that had Kreider as a 2nd round pick in 2009.
 
Amazing Kreiderman said:
Kjellberg is something decent. He was ranked earlier in the year. This is what happens every year. Ranked players go undrafted (Nando Eggenberger for instance, or Danila Galenyuk) while other unranked players get picked. But it's not as if Kjellberg was never ranked. He played for the national team at different age levels even. I'm not saying it's a good pick, but it's not a throwaway pick either. I wonder how many people in 2000 actually thought "Why draft a goalie? We already have a great goalie!" when we picked Lundqvist. When it comes to rounds 6 and 7, it's unpredictable. Oh, and speaking of rankings... Those rankings are from journalists and hobbyists. The same rankings that had Kreider as a 2nd round pick in 2009.
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I remember going back to look for Kjellberg in the CSB draft rankings and he wasn't in their final draft rankings but he was in their rankings around mid-season so he just fell out---which happens with longer shot players. Any case---the Rangers don't seem to care a whole lot about what the CSB or TSN or McKeen's or Red Line or Future Prospects or the Hockey News or any of the other draft ranking sites think---the Rangers have their own internal debates between their scouts which are quite separate from these draft ranking websites---not actually all that out of line at least in the first 2 or 3 rounds but they're always pulling out surprises and FWIW I think the Rangers draft fairly well even if they sometimes blow some of their early picks with their reaching. Kjellberg though wasn't an entirely off the radar pick though. He was a name out there and a possibility.

All that said---Simon looks to me to be a very very long shot. I'd say the same about Hughes. To me when both those players start playing for their respective college teams that's when we'll really begin to find out about them.
 
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WeRa said:
Anthony Brodeur was drafted in 2013 round 7 as a 208 overall by New Jersey Devils... IMO only because of who is his father.

Anthony Brodeur at eliteprospects.com
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I think it's important to note that some organizations would engage in activities where it's a little easier to find evidence of nepotism.

Having said that, I've never seen that with the Rangers --- and there have been a lot of opportunities over the years with people who were more "influential" in the organization than Kjellberg. He's a scout who's been with the team for a year, I just don't see them breaking with tradition under those circumstances.

Now, if we're talking about a 21 or 22 year old kid, yeah they might invite him to a camp or give a tryout. But draft picks are not something this Rangers' scouting brass has taken for granted.
 
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Edge said:
I think it's important to note that some organizations would engage in activities where it's a little easier to find evidence of nepotism.

Having said that, I've never seen that with the Rangers --- and there have been a lot of opportunities over the years with people who were more "influential" in the organization than Kjellberg. He's a scout who's been with the team for a year, I just don't see them breaking with tradition under those circumstances.

Now, if we're talking about a 21 or 22 year old kid, yeah they might invite him to a camp or give a tryout. But draft picks are not something this Rangers' scouting brass has taken for granted.
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This is the most important aspect. It's not as if he was part of the organization for years. We could have drafted Jack Drury, we could have drafted Kyle Stephan.
 
Most people will get a job they otherwise wouldn't or would otherwise have to work harder to get because of someone in their network. It's not like we drafted him in the 1st round. This is a non-issue.
 
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I can't believe people want to hate a front office so bad they have to cling on to the nepotism angle. Absurd, see: Drury, Jack.
 
SnowblindNYR said:
Most people will get a job they otherwise wouldn't or would otherwise have to work harder to get because of someone in their network. It's not like we drafted him in the 1st round. This is a non-issue.
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As I said. Maybe they liked something in his game other teams didn't notice simply because they didn't see him as often.
 
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