Prospect Info: Rangers Prospects Thread (Player Stats/Info in Post #1; Updated 6.27.19)

[tradenashnow]

The lazy Russian thing is a myth. It's a fabrication from arrogant Canadians who think they are better than everyone else.

Nonsense. It is very often valid. They come from a league with little physical play where taking punishment to make plays is not a priority. Many come here and they don't like not having all day to do something with the puck. Buchnevich was incredibly lazy. Zherdev was a dog. Anisimov never put the effort in to reach his potential. It happens a lot. Kovalev was incredibly lazy at times.

 

[Good Intentions]

they will definitely go to 1-2, shiny new toy the most recent draft class always gets rated highly by them

Agreed.

In which case it will look something close to the following:

1 J Hughes
2 Kakko
3 Makar
4 Q Hughes
5 Bowen
6 Dach
7 Glass
8 Necas
9 Podkolzin
10 Kravtsov
11 Turcotte
12 Denisenko
13 Zadina
14 Cozens
15 Kaprizov
16 Zegras
17 Boqvist
18 Broberg
19 Brannstrom
20 Hayton

 

[UnSandvich]

Nonsense. It is very often valid. They come from a league with little physical play where taking punishment to make plays is not a priority. Many come here and they don't like not having all day to do something with the puck. Buchnevich was incredibly lazy. Zherdev was a dog. Anisimov never put the effort in to reach his potential. It happens a lot. Kovalev was incredibly lazy at times.

Your citing it just reinforces that it’s a myth

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Nonsense. It is very often valid. They come from a league with little physical play where taking punishment to make plays is not a priority. Many come here and they don't like not having all day to do something with the puck. Buchnevich was incredibly lazy. Zherdev was a dog. Anisimov never put the effort in to reach his potential. It happens a lot. Kovalev was incredibly lazy at times.

 

[Leetch3]

Agreed.

In which case it will look something close to the following:

1 J Hughes
2 Kakko
3 Makar
4 Q Hughes
5 Bowen
6 Dach
7 Glass
8 Necas
9 Podkolzin
10 Kravtsov
11 Turcotte
12 Denisenko
13 Zadina
14 Cozens
15 Kaprizov
16 Zegras
17 Boqvist
18 Broberg
19 Brannstrom
20 Hayton

I'm also not sure what their cutoff criteria is but if the list doesn't come out until next march then j hughes, kakko, makar, q hughes, kratsov, and others might come off the list cause they will already be in the nhl

 

[Harbour Dog]

Delete

 

[Harbour Dog]

I could honestly give you stereotypes of about every nation on this continent. Bar Liechtenstein that is, but that’s no one has been able to find it on a map yet.

Anyhow, I think that because the NHL uses different rules than European leagues do - European hockey nations have more ‘similar’ styles. Just a different look at hockey, I guess.

A lot of the old stereotypes about Russian hockey players weren't because they were Russian, it was how the older system traditionally trained players and style differences for the time.

With time, and the exchange of ideas and approaches, it really doesn't apply any more.

Agreed. There's still a bit of a difference in terms of style. NA style is more about territory and power, while the EU style is more about possession and skill but over the years both have become so intertwined that we are now left with 2 hybrids

I had always heard that hockey sticks were ill made and/or expensive in Russia, so you saw a lot less slap shots and far more wrist shots... while cheap sticks were prevalent in NA so slap shots were much more common.

This was obviously USSR days.

Thanks for the quick discussion and interesting points, guys!

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Your citing it just reinforces that it’s a myth

Stastny the elder said it best in a documentary when he described the parity challenges of playing 3-5 good teams a year in his old league vs playing against a good NHL team every night. It’s an adjustment but wouldn’t call anyone lazy once given the chance.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Stastny the elder said it best in a documentary when he described the parity challenges of playing 3-5 good teams a year in his old league vs playing against a good NHL team every night. It’s an adjustment but wouldn’t call anyone lazy once given the chance.

Lazy players don't make it to the NHL, KHL, Liiga or SHL

 

[Konamic Ice Hockey]

Russia does not put out 3-4 line NHL players for whatever reason. So the players you see in the NHL are the best of the best that Russia has to offer and often those players get treated a certain way that leads to a style of play that does not look like they are hustling(and often they are not going 100%). This goes for many NA players as well. Buch and Kreider both have that attitude. Cally did not, he had to work his way to the NHL, so his "motor" is different. Very few high skill players are like GR8 or say prime Graves. Its a youth-jrs coaching problem more than a country problem. When wining has more importance than development. It is the downfall of many NHL players, many have to have a wake up call that they will not get by on skill and conditioning alone.
Maybe there is something to Russia not putting out 3-4 liners when all other hockey countries do...

 

[Raspewtin]

Nonsense. It is very often valid. They come from a league with little physical play where taking punishment to make plays is not a priority. Many come here and they don't like not having all day to do something with the puck. Buchnevich was incredibly lazy. Zherdev was a dog. Anisimov never put the effort in to reach his potential. It happens a lot. Kovalev was incredibly lazy at times.

 

[Edge]

These them there Soviet kids sure is fancy.

 

[CommaSynapse]

Russia does not put out 3-4 line NHL players for whatever reason. So the players you see in the NHL are the best of the best that Russia has to offer and often those players get treated a certain way that leads to a style of play that does not look like they are hustling(and often they are not going 100%). This goes for many NA players as well. Buch and Kreider both have that attitude. Cally did not, he had to work his way to the NHL, so his "motor" is different. Very few high skill players are like GR8 or say prime Graves. Its a youth-jrs coaching problem more than a country problem. When wining has more importance than development. It is the downfall of many NHL players, many have to have a wake up call that they will not get by on skill and conditioning alone.
Maybe there is something to Russia not putting out 3-4 liners when all other hockey countries do...

Considering there were only 36 active Russian skaters in the NHL for 2018-2019, it's not that the country doesn't create or coach bottom-6 players. The reality is that those players who could play bottom-6 roles can make a lot more money playing at home as top-six KHL players.



It's as simple as that.

 

[Joey Bones]

"You know who the forgotten man in all of this is? Morgan Barron. He will play for the Rangers."

Barron was a stud last year in college. Wahlstrom was an embarrassment. The fact THN had that clown rated 30th and K'Andre 62 shows they have little credibility when it comes to Rangers prospects. At some point with the farm being an embarrassment of riches, Gorton and JD are going to pull of a blockbuster where they trade 3-4 highly rated prospects for a young, proven star who probably wants a lot of money or doesn't want to play where he is at. It's only a matter of time.

Won't lie, Wahlstrom was solid in Bridgeport albeit small sample size....

 

[Kords]

Okay, i'm finally starting to come around on Tony D

 

[Joey Bones]

Why does this picture upset Me?

View attachment 240107

Where's Turcotte?

 

[NYR Viper]

Okay, i'm finally starting to come around on Tony D

He’s a ball buster and I find it hysterical

 

[Joey Bones]

Haha, I was referring to this beauty

All time best analyst!!

 

[Joey Bones]

Nonsense. It is very often valid. They come from a league with little physical play where taking punishment to make plays is not a priority. Many come here and they don't like not having all day to do something with the puck. Buchnevich was incredibly lazy. Zherdev was a dog. Anisimov never put the effort in to reach his potential. It happens a lot. Kovalev was incredibly lazy at times.

Tarasenko throws checks. Barbashev throws checks. Anisimov throws checks. Then there's the whole Ovechkin and Kuznetsov thing....

 

[Konamic Ice Hockey]

Considering there were only 36 active Russian skaters in the NHL for 2018-2019, it's not that the country doesn't create or coach bottom-6 players. The reality is that those players who could play bottom-6 roles can make a lot more money playing at home as top-six KHL players.



It's as simple as that.

Not really, even lower end NHL guys make more then most 1st line KHL players and a 3-4 line NHLer is like at most a second line KHL(unless the team is BAD). The fact that Russia only has 36 active players is to my point. Russia with how much they love hockey and the population they should have a lot more players in the NHL. They also put out few quality NHL D. They have holes in their developmental program.
Sweden and Finland could have the same excuses as Russia but they don't they put out players from 1-4 line and 1-6 on D. For the size of each of those countries they put out a lot of quality NHLers
But the problem I brought up is in all countries and all sports. Putting to much emphasis on winning and getting the good kid the puck, they don't teach the good kid to go get the puck himself and other good habits. "Lazy" is the visualization of bad habits learned. But it is a funny thing because you want the good kid to know he is good and be confident, just not to the point his effort and good habits suffer.

 

[Joey Bones]

Okay, i'm finally starting to come around on Tony D

One of a kind....

 

[Joey Bones]

 

[Bob Richards]

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Nonsense. It is very often valid. They come from a league with little physical play where taking punishment to make plays is not a priority. Many come here and they don't like not having all day to do something with the puck. Buchnevich was incredibly lazy. Zherdev was a dog. Anisimov never put the effort in to reach his potential. It happens a lot. Kovalev was incredibly lazy at times.

You would be the Gretzky of dislikes if this forum allowed it.

A player that lacks physical play doesn’t make them lazy.

Shocker. I know.

 

[CommaSynapse]

Not really, even lower end NHL guys make more then most 1st line KHL players and a 3-4 line NHLer is like at most a second line KHL(unless the team is BAD). The fact that Russia only has 36 active players is to my point. Russia with how much they love hockey and the population they should have a lot more players in the NHL. They also put out few quality NHL D. They have holes in their developmental program.
Sweden and Finland could have the same excuses as Russia but they don't they put out players from 1-4 line and 1-6 on D. For the size of each of those countries they put out a lot of quality NHLers
But the problem I brought up is in all countries and all sports. Putting to much emphasis on winning and getting the good kid the puck, they don't teach the good kid to go get the puck himself and other good habits. "Lazy" is the visualization of bad habits learned. But it is a funny thing because you want the good kid to know he is good and be confident, just not to the point his effort and good habits suffer.

Agree to disagree, my friend. Every country has holes in its developmental programs, but I don't think that's the main reason there aren't as many Russian NHLers. The rise of the KHL has shifted Russian demographics in the NHL, especially as it has grown in its profile.

For me, if I could move abroad or make comparable money in my home country with my own language, I'm staying at home.

Some guys are absolute stars in the KHL. Nigel Dawes was not great during his NHL tenure, but he has been a KHL all-star. Plenty of guys like that--Omark (Who I thought would end up being a very skilled NHL'er...alas, hindsight), Thoresen, Yakupov--far more successful in the KHL.

There is something to be said for Russian-learned skill and finesse, and maybe there is something to it with the larger ice, where aggression can put you out of position badly (and quickly).

But Russia can produce grinders and bottom-6 talents. Emelin, love him or hate him, has always played with an edge. Kamenev, Barbashev, Namestnikov have played well in bottom-6 roles. You have a few playing in the AHL in those roles, too. This might look like cherry-picking, but when there are only 36 Russian players in the league, (around 26 about a year or so ago), a handful is proportional.