Prospect Info: Rangers Prospect Thread (Player Stats/Info in Post #1; Updated 1.12.21)

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Thoughts on Larry reporting the team tried To sign Schneider to his ELC in December but they were “unsuccessful”?

what does that even mean?

Larry’s always talking about Lundkvist jumping ship due to depth, but maybe it’s Schneider instead lol

Schneider holding out until Jan 1st is in his best interest. It means his ELC won't slide and he can be RFA in 2023 if he signs before July 1st

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Zac Jones is on that next level shit right now.

 

[nyr2k2]

Kravtsov had 4 PIM on about 18 minutes.

Zac Jones had three helpers. He now has 5-8-13 in 13 games this season.

 

[cwede]

Schneider holding out until Jan 1st is in his best interest. It means his ELC won't slide and he can be RFA in 2023 if he signs before July 1st

Wait am i missing something? If he signs a 3 year ELC after March 1, and PTOs w Pack in spring, not RFA until '04? No?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Wait am i missing something? If he signs a 3 year ELC after March 1, and PTOs w Pack in spring, not RFA until '04? No?

If his ELC kicks in July 1st, sure. But if the Rangers want him to play in the AHL instead of the WHL he would need to be under contract. The ATO doesn't allow for more than 10 games if I remember correctly

 

[Mikos87]

Thoughts on Larry reporting the team tried To sign Schneider to his ELC in December but they were “unsuccessful”?

what does that even mean?

Larry’s always talking about Lundkvist jumping ship due to depth, but maybe it’s Schneider instead lol

Don't know the details well enough, but Duclair did the same thing. Think it has to do with burning a year off versus not. It's something that Ryan Pulock didn't do, and essentially had a 4 year ELC because he could enter the AHL on his D+2 year since he was a late birthday, so Ryan got paid a year later. Schneider is in the same position and both guys are out of the Wheat Kings program, so Scheider saw how that played out.

If Pulock waited to sign, his D+2 season would have burned off year 1 of his ELC, and he would have gotten a shot at a bigger payday for the 17-18 season (if he cracked the NHL roster).

 

[Leetch3]

Schneider holding out until Jan 1st is in his best interest. It means his ELC won't slide and he can be RFA in 2023 if he signs before July 1st

schneider is likely not the type of guy that will demand a big 2nd contract but that slide year to extend the ELC doesn't always work out as expected. the Avs had to give Mikko Rantanen $9.25 mil AAV because he had a 4th year under his ELC and had back to back 80+ point seasons instead of 1. so the avs benefited for the 1 year but are likely paying more for the next 5...

for the rangers there is almost no chance that chytil's 2nd deal isn't more $$ next summer than if he was a RFA this summer.

normally the slide is great for the team just interesting how things work out differently some times

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Don't know the details well enough, but Duclair did the same thing. Think it has to do with burning a year off versus not. It's something that Ryan Pulock didn't do, and essentially had a 4 year ELC because he could enter the AHL on his D+2 year since he was a late birthday, so Ryan got paid a year later. Schneider is in the same position and both guys are out of the Wheat Kings program, so Scheider saw how that played out.

If Pulock waited to sign, his D+2 season would have burned off year 1 of his ELC, and he would have gotten a shot at a bigger payday for the 17-18 season (if he cracked the NHL roster).

So, to elaborate a bit on this, Schneider is in the same situation as Ryan Gropp was in 2015 and the rule only applies to prospects born between Sept 16 and Dec 31.

1. The age is determined by the player's age on September 15th, as outlined in CBA article 8.10 on page 22

2. The distinction between early birthdays (9/15 - 12/31) and late birthdays (01/01 - 9/14) is outlined in 9.2(d)(i) on page 23

3. The requirement for a professional year (i.e. "burning a year") is explained in article 10.2(a)(i) on page 30

As Braden Schneider was born in 2001, and therefore will turn 20 in this calendar year, his contract will not be slide eligible at all. The easiest way to compare 2 players in this situation is to look at the 2017 NHL Draft.

Rangers drafted and signed Lias Andersson in 2017, and as a 1998 born player, 2017 was his CY19 (calendar year of his 19th birthday).
Sabres drafted Mittelstadt in 2017 and signed him in 2018. Mittelstadt was also a 1998 born player, but he signed in his CY20 (calendar year of his 20th birthday).

Therefore, Mittelstadt's entry level contract did not slide despite playing fewer than 10 games outlined in article 10.2(a)(i) because he falls under the exception in article 9.2.(d)(i)


Why did Schneider not sign? The same reason Lafrenière didn't play in the World Juniors (I still believe it was the player's choice). An entry level slide benfits the team, but the player can hit RFA status a year earlier if they play their cards right. Earlier payday for Schneider is a good incentive to not sign prior to January 1st

Ryan Gropp in 2015 signed on December 31st, resulting in his ELC sliding twice. For Gropp it meant a payout of 92,500 dollars as a signing bonus, and he was under contract until 2020, instead of hitting RFA status in 2018. Did that benefit him? I guess, since he was guaranteed a pro contract for 3 full years after finishing his junior career. He basically got paid a minimum of 70,000 5 years in a row.

Schneider might be betting on himself getting a big payday in 2023, by signing his ELC in the coming weeks and play in the AHL under the new exception


TL;DR:
A player who turns 20 (or older) in the year he signs his contract will not be eligible for an entry level slide. Schneider turns 20 years old in 2021.

 

[Edge]

schneider is likely not the type of guy that will demand a big 2nd contract but that slide year to extend the ELC doesn't always work out as expected. the Avs had to give Mikko Rantanen $9.25 mil AAV because he had a 4th year under his ELC and had back to back 80+ point seasons instead of 1. so the avs benefited for the 1 year but are likely paying more for the next 5...

for the rangers there is almost no chance that chytil's 2nd deal isn't more $$ next summer than if he was a RFA this summer.

normally the slide is great for the team just interesting how things work out differently some times

While I'm someone who thinks there's a reasonable possibility we see Schneider sooner rather than later, I agree that he's not likely looking at a big pay day - even if it is a gamble that pays off for him.

 

[GAGLine]

While I'm someone who thinks there's a reasonable possibility we see Schneider sooner rather than later, I agree that he's not likely looking at a big pay day - even if it is a gamble that pays off for him.

I'm sure he's simply doing what his agent advised him to do.

 

[Edge]

I'm sure he's simply doing what his agent advised him to do.

I have little doubt about that.

I think AK hit the nail on the head, it's a business decision.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

While I'm someone who thinks there's a reasonable possibility we see Schneider sooner rather than later, I agree that he's not likely looking at a big pay day - even if it is a gamble that pays off for him.

it’s the potential of getting a raise sooner plus getting to UFA a year earlier.

a minimal raise in year 4 would still be a raise.

 

[Edge]

it’s the potential of getting a raise sooner plus getting to UFA a year earlier.

a minimal raise in year 4 would still be a raise.

It is. But as his been pointed out, it doesn't always work out that way.

But yes, it's a worthwhile gamble for him.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I have little doubt about that.

I think AK hit the nail on the head, it's a business decision.

We never know what goes on in the room and as fans we look at ELCs as the bargain for the team (Which it is). At the same time it is in the player's best interest to get through that ELC as soon as possible.

A few years ago, Philly signed Mike Vecchione (a college undrafted free agent) and part of the negotiation was for the team to play Vecchione at least in 1 game, so his 1-year ELC would make him RFA that summer. On the surface, it's hard to figure out what the advantage was here, until you look at the 2nd contract and realize it was a 1-way contract, which gave him $900,000 guaranteed even in the AHL, rather than a year on an ELC with a max of $70,000

Agents are getting better at understanding the nuances of the CBA, as do players, I feel. They are aware of certain "loopholes" to maximize their profits, and for certain players, that's beneficial.

Lafrenière risking injury at the WJC (like Dach) and missing a season, causing an ELC slide, would potentially cost him millions by simply becoming RFA in 2024 rather than 2023. The same can be said for Schneider. By nog signing in 2020, his ELC won't slide now guaranteeing him a 2023 RFA status (assuming they sign him to play in the current AHL season)

 

[nyr2k2]

Edström was -3 in 13 minutes.

Lundkvist was even, no points in about 21 minutes.

Själin was without a point in 15 minutes.

I won't make any jokes about Henriksson today. You all know his line, and you know he didn't improve it.

 

[Mikos87]

So, to elaborate a bit on this, Schneider is in the same situation as Ryan Gropp was in 2015 and the rule only applies to prospects born between Sept 16 and Dec 31.

1. The age is determined by the player's age on September 15th, as outlined in CBA article 8.10 on page 22

View attachment 382532

2. The distinction between early birthdays (9/15 - 12/31) and late birthdays (01/01 - 9/14) is outlined in 9.2(d)(i) on page 23
View attachment 382535

3. The requirement for a professional year (i.e. "burning a year") is explained in article 10.2(a)(i) on page 30
View attachment 382533


As Braden Schneider was born in 2001, and therefore will turn 20 in this calendar year, his contract will not be slide eligible at all. The easiest way to compare 2 players in this situation is to look at the 2017 NHL Draft.

Rangers drafted and signed Lias Andersson in 2017, and as a 1998 born player, 2017 was his CY19 (calendar year of his 19th birthday).
Sabres drafted Mittelstadt in 2017 and signed him in 2018. Mittelstadt was also a 1998 born player, but he signed in his CY20 (calendar year of his 20th birthday).

Therefore, Mittelstadt's entry level contract did not slide despite playing fewer than 10 games outlined in article 10.2(a)(i) because he falls under the exception in article 9.2.(d)(i)


Why did Schneider not sign? The same reason Lafrenière didn't play in the World Juniors (I still believe it was the player's choice). An entry level slide benfits the team, but the player can hit RFA status a year earlier if they play their cards right. Earlier payday for Schneider is a good incentive to not sign prior to January 1st

Ryan Gropp in 2015 signed on December 31st, resulting in his ELC sliding twice. For Gropp it meant a payout of 92,500 dollars as a signing bonus, and he was under contract until 2020, instead of hitting RFA status in 2018. Did that benefit him? I guess, since he was guaranteed a pro contract for 3 full years after finishing his junior career. He basically got paid a minimum of 70,000 5 years in a row.

Schneider might be betting on himself getting a big payday in 2023, by signing his ELC in the coming weeks and play in the AHL under the new exception


TL;DR:
A player who turns 20 (or older) in the year he signs his contract will not be eligible for an entry level slide. Schneider turns 20 years old in 2021.

Thanks appreciate you sharing the details.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Thanks appreciate you sharing the details.

If I was in college, I'd write a paper on the NHL collective bargaining agreement

 

[Mikos87]

If I was in college, I'd write a paper on the NHL collective bargaining agreement

Yeah and that rule in particular is an odd one. Not sure of how many players who actually signed and got dinged.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Yeah and that rule in particular is an odd one. Not sure of how many players who actually signed and got dinged.

Reading through it from time to time, it honestly feels like they have 25 exceptions for every rule in the document. But the ELC articles are the most interesting to me. Now fast-forward to next year and we will see a long-awaited change: Increased ELC base salaries as explained in the MOU:

 

[bl02]

Edström was -3 in 13 minutes.

Lundkvist was even, no points in about 21 minutes.

Själin was without a point in 15 minutes.

I won't make any jokes about Henriksson today. You all know his line, and you know he didn't improve it.

Is Henriksson playing top 6 minutes? If so I Would imagine he would break some record by a player getting top 6 minutes putting up a zero in the goal column over a season in the SHL?!

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Is Henriksson playing top 6 minutes? If so I Would imagine he would break some record by a player getting top 6 minutes putting up a zero in the goal column over a season in the SHL?!

He ranks 10th in ice-time among forwards.

 

[Algernop Kreider]

I'd love to see someone do a regression of total future earnings against all of the contract eligibility circumstances (e.g. whether the ELC is slide-eligible, when they reach UFA, when they become arbitration-eligible, etc). See if you're actually more likely to make more if the ELC doesn't slide.

 

[TC82]

Pajuniemi with an assist for TPS. Liiga games have lost a of intensity after they banned the fans. Very boring hockey at the moment.

 

[nyr2k2]

Rykov with an apple, +1 in 15+.

Kravtsov had the goal and was +1.

Pajuniemi had an assist in 20+.

Aaltonen is becoming the Finnish Henriksson, recording no points but still playing 14+ minutes.

Berard is scoreless, late.

Ciccolini is playing.

 

[bl02]

Rykov with an apple, +1 in 15+.

Kravtsov had the goal and was +1.

Pajuniemi had an assist in 20+.

Aaltonen is becoming the Finnish Henriksson, recording no points but still playing 14+ minutes.

Berard is scoreless, late.

Ciccolini is playing.

Berard just buried one in the the third.