Confirmed with Link: Rangers name Alain Vigneault head coach - Part II

[stan the caddy]

"I like the Rangers" = OMFG HOMERZ111!!!!!

"The Rangers suck" = Wow, such a realist, bang on! Spot on! This timeszzz 1 hundredz.

Great mentality.

Here's the reality. There is talent on the roster. Tortorella couldn't maximize it, he was a bully, players grew tired of him, he got relieved of his coaching duties.

Vigneault has had much more recent success. He's the polar opposite of Tortorella.

Can Vigneault maximize the talent on this roster?

There are some flaws on the roster. There will be some changes to the roster before training camp.

The rest we don't know. As a fan of this team, I am allowed to root for them. If that makes me a homer, so be it.

What makes you say Torts couldn't maximize the talent? What makes the Rangers more talanted than the Blackhawks, Bruins, or Penguins for example? The Penguins have two forwards that are in a different league compared to anyone on the Rangers. The Blackhawks have Toews, Kane, Sharp, and Hossa.

 

[SupersonicMonkey*]

Yet he tries to destroy our team every year in July.

Yeah, that's an issue.

And honestly, I have started to believe that Jeff Gorton is behind a lot of the real solid trades. He and Clark are heads of scouting. They liked Moore and were reportedly adamant about getting him in the Gaborik deal. Wouldn't be surprised if it were the same in the McDonagh deal.

 

[SupersonicMonkey*]

A. What makes you say Torts couldn't maximize the talent?

B. What makes the Rangers more talanted than the Blackhawks, Bruins, or Penguins for example? The Penguins have two forwards that are in a different league compared to anyone on the Rangers. The Blackhawks have Toews, Kane, Sharp, and Hossa.

A. Because he didn't. Plain and simple. And had he, he wouldn't be searching for a job somewhere else.

B. Did I mention any of that in my post? No I didn't.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

If you think this is a "win-now" team I've got a bridge to sell you. We have a young team with a great goalie. Leadership is greatly lacking and only time will tell if AV is that leader. A crap shoot at best. Glad you have lots of years left to play craps.

The guy with zero professional coaching experience is your choice but then you claim that the criticism against a proven NHL coach is that he's a crap shoot? 10/10 you're getting a lot of responses

 

[stan the caddy]

A. Because he didn't. Plain and simple. And had he, he wouldn't be searching for a job somewhere else.

B. Did I mention any of that in my post? No I didn't.

A. You're basing that off of what exactly?

B. You said this team has talent? Well, yea, every team has talent but you have to put in in perspective. If Tortorella can't maxmize our offensive talent, let's look at what other teams have to work with and compare our talent to theirs.

 

[BroadwayBlues]

No press conference??

 

[Thirty One]

No press conference??

Apparently Brooks said Thursday.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

A. Because he didn't. Plain and simple. And had he, he wouldn't be searching for a job somewhere else.

B. Did I mention any of that in my post? No I didn't.

Considering the team lost in the 2nd round, you should be forced to explain yourself - specifically how the Rangers roster matches up against the teams that made the final 4. And how "getting more out of" this roster could've been done, and how it would have led to victories over those teams.

....but your entire point is rooted in fantasyland, so I understand the lack of an explanation.

 

[GAGLine]

What makes you say Torts couldn't maximize the talent? What makes the Rangers more talanted than the Blackhawks, Bruins, or Penguins for example? The Penguins have two forwards that are in a different league compared to anyone on the Rangers. The Blackhawks have Toews, Kane, Sharp, and Hossa.

Who says they are more talented than the hawks, bruins or pens? No one has made that claim.

No one is saying that our roster is great. But that doesn't mean that the coach got the most out of them.

Look at our PP this year. It wasn't just bad, it was absolutely dysfunctional. Our zone entries were worse on the PP than at 5 on 5. That isn't a matter of talent. That's a matter of coaching. Maybe the lack of success got into the players' heads, but it's the coach's job to fix that and he didn't.

Again, no one is saying that Torts was the only problem. There is plenty of blame to go around, from Sather on down. All we're saying is that Torts was ONE of the problems with this team. Apparently, the players agreed and it was time for him to go.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

What makes you say Torts couldn't maximize the talent? What makes the Rangers more talanted than the Blackhawks, Bruins, or Penguins for example? The Penguins have two forwards that are in a different league compared to anyone on the Rangers. The Blackhawks have Toews, Kane, Sharp, and Hossa.

The Pens and Hawks were both embarrassed in the first round last year with all of these players. Hell so were the Bruins. None of them changed coaches but it's not as simple as "look at the players". It's silliness.

 

[GAGLine]

A. You're basing that off of what exactly?

B. You said this team has talent? Well, yea, every team has talent but you have to put in in perspective. If Tortorella can't maxmize our offensive talent, let's look at what other teams have to work with and compare our talent to theirs.

How much talent other teams have isn't part of the discussion. The question is whether Torts got the most out of the talent we do have, and many of us feel that he didn't.

You keep trying to argue as if we're saying the roster is perfect, Sather is great, and the only reason we didn't win is because of Torts.

NO ONE IS SAYING THAT.

Please, find me a post where anyone says that Torts was the only reason we lost. Stop putting words in people's mouths. We know Sather sucks. We know the roster isn't good enough. That doesn't change the fact that Torts wore out his welcome.

 

[stan the caddy]

Who says they are more talented than the hawks, bruins or pens? No one has made that claim.

No one is saying that our roster is great. But that doesn't mean that the coach got the most out of them.

Look at our PP this year. It wasn't just bad, it was absolutely dysfunctional. Our zone entries were worse on the PP than at 5 on 5. That isn't a matter of talent. That's a matter of coaching. Maybe the lack of success got into the players' heads, but it's the coach's job to fix that and he didn't.

Again, no one is saying that Torts was the only problem. There is plenty of blame to go around, from Sather on down. All we're saying is that Torts was ONE of the problems with this team. Apparently, the players agreed and it was time for him to go.

Yea, but if we're not the most talented team in the league or at least one of the most talented teams in the league, how can we realistically expect a championship?

"Hey John, go out an overachieve or it's your ass."

 

[stan the caddy]

How much talent other teams have isn't part of the discussion. The question is whether Torts got the most out of the talent we do have, and many of us feel that he didn't.

You keep trying to argue as if we're saying the roster is perfect, Sather is great, and the only reason we didn't win is because of Torts.

NO ONE IS SAYING THAT.

Please, find me a post where anyone says that Torts was the only reason we lost. Stop putting words in people's mouths. We know Sather sucks. We know the roster isn't good enough. That doesn't change the fact that Torts wore out his welcome.

How much talent other teams have is ABSOLUTELY part of the equation when you have a Stanley Cup or bust mentality. You have to go out and beat those teams to win it.

 

[bigbuffalo313]

Hilarious... Enjoy!

http://www.downgoesbrown.com/2013/06/new-york-rangers-coach.html

My favorite:

I saw that earlier and I was cracking up.

 

[KreiMeARiver*]

Yet he tries to destroy our team every year in July.

And more often than not, he's a HUGE success!

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

How much talent other teams have isn't part of the discussion. The question is whether Torts got the most out of the talent we do have, and many of us feel that he didn't.

You keep trying to argue as if we're saying the roster is perfect, Sather is great, and the only reason we didn't win is because of Torts.

NO ONE IS SAYING THAT.

Please, find me a post where anyone says that Torts was the only reason we lost. Stop putting words in people's mouths. We know Sather sucks. We know the roster isn't good enough. That doesn't change the fact that Torts wore out his welcome.

So the goal is to lose again in the 2nd round next season, but to do it prettier?

 

[stan the caddy]

So the goal is to lose again in the 2nd round next season, but to do it prettier?

And nicer. You gotta be nice to Sam and Larry and whoever else.

 

[Kwayry]

He needs to work on his defensive side? He HAS NO defensive side. His defense is as bad as _n_y _elmore's was. He's that bad on the defensive side.

So you are saying he has no defensive side and doesn't need to work on it?



For these PP triggerman that are available, they all come with issues, hence the low price tag.
Which one would have the chance to rebound in this defense.
I think Rundblad does (McBain to a lesser extent too). Again they will not be asked to do much, just provide offense from the blue line. The defensive side will hopefully come eventually.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

So you are saying he has no defensive side and doesn't need to work on it?

.

Do I need to hold your hand and walk you through my post? It seems like you don't understand it.

"He needs to work on his defensive side? He HAS NO defensive side. His defense is as bad as _n_y _elmore's was. He's that bad on the defensive side."

Read the words. I am intimating that you are ridiculously downplaying his defensive deficiencies in order to make your point. You very clearly make it sound like he is a player with some minor problems that will be this great impact guy for us when that's not accurate at all.

For these PP triggerman that are available, they all come with issues, hence the low price tag.
Which one would have the chance to rebound in this defense.
I think Rundblad does (McBain to a lesser extent too). Again they will not be asked to do much, just provide offense. The defensive side will hopefully come eventually.

Rebound? For Rundblad to rebound he would have had to have been good enough in the first place. Rundblad has never made inroads on improving his defense.

McBain at least was decent and is a NHLer. Rundblad is so bad defensively that he can't even be trusted to be the PP triggerman that I think is his max potential (i.e. a 5/6 d-man who plays most of his minutes on the powerplay). I think that is about where his potential is right now with his age, his lack of improvement, and his other deficiencies.

We are not a rebuildnig team. We can't afford to wait for the defensive side to "hopefully come someday." Why would we trade valuable pieces (you just mentioned Miller above) for someone like Rundblad? I would take a flyer on him off of waivers or for a 5th round pick. But that's about it.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

And more often than not, he's a HUGE success!

Sather is?

 

[GAGLine]

Yea, but if we're not the most talented team in the league or at least one of the most talented teams in the league, how can we realistically expect a championship?

"Hey John, go out an overachieve or it's your ass."

See, here's the problem. You keep acting as if Torts isn't at fault because the roster is flawed. Every roster is flawed to one degree or another. Some rosters under-achieve, some over-achieve. Some coaches get the most out of their players, some don't.

Why do you insist that there can only be 1 reason for this team's failure? I agree with you that the roster is a problem.

But that doesn't change my opinion that Torts was a problem as well. The team failed. The coach is part of the team. How can he not share the blame for that failure? How can he not share the blame for our horrid PP? How can he not share the blame for the strained relationship with his players?

Torts didn't need to win a cup to keep his job. He needed to make the most of the roster he was given and IMO, he didn't do that.

This is a quote from Torts after the series against the bruins:

http://bloguin.com/puckdrunklove/20...s-game-seven-emotions-for-fall-to-bruins.html

"One of the things, and it falls on my shoulders, is our team's mindset going into another round," Rangers coach John Tortorella said Monday when the club packed up for the summer. "Both teams played an emotional Game 7. I don't think our mindset was ready to play another series and to the level you need to be at. It didn't have a playoff atmosphere."

"It's an emotional thing," Tortorella said. "You win the last two games of a first-round series, you play an emotional Game 7, you win it, and within a couple of days you're playing another series. It's not a Game 7, it's a Game 1. I thought we did enough, but as I watched us play, it wasn't enough.
"The biggest part of my job is that and how you handle your top players to get them to play."

Torts admitted himself that he failed, yet you seek to absolve him of all blame.

 

[NHRangerfan]

What makes you say Torts couldn't maximize the talent? What makes the Rangers more talanted than the Blackhawks, Bruins, or Penguins for example? The Penguins have two forwards that are in a different league compared to anyone on the Rangers. The Blackhawks have Toews, Kane, Sharp, and Hossa.

He never said that the Rangers are more talented than the teams you name above, he said Torts couldn't maximize the talent on the team...HUGE DIFFERENCE.

Somebody posted this yetserday I think and I apologize for not giving proper credit, but they said that Torts went from "Safe is Death" to defensive shell based on his roster which I think everyone agreed with at the time, but as the roster changed he never changed the team style..

 

[GAGLine]

So the goal is to lose again in the 2nd round next season, but to do it prettier?

Do you guys ever get tired of putting words in other people's mouths? Of arguing against things I never said?

The question is whether or not Torts deserves part of the blame for this team's failure, or whether it is 100% on the players, as some of you claim.

We need to improve both the roster AND the coach if we want to win it all. That is my position.

 

[Richter Scale]

I'm just not sure how anyone could be a BIG fan of Torts after his time here.

Torts fans must agree/like the following:

1. Chris Kreider, at best, is a plug-in NHL 4th liner
2. Brian Boyle can be used in every game situation andis a top-6 forward
3. Block all shots so your Vezina winning goaltender doesn't have to
4. DON'T practice offense, it is an unnecessary part of hockey
5. Once the puck carrier gets passed the red line, he must dump in and chase
6. Don't worry about puck possession, its another unimportant factor
7. Make fun of/bench/send down/demoralize all your young/ up and coming players
etc.

Torts was a sideshow and more of a distraction than a head coach.

This entire post is the real sideshow and distraction from actual meaningful discussion. Every single item on that list is either a flat out lie or grossly exaggerated hyperbole. If Torts was any combination of those, I would have wanted him gone too. He wasn’t. Good job summarizing all the uninformed and mindless memes that this board spewed about him though.

Here's the reality. There is talent on the roster. Tortorella couldn't maximize it, he was a bully, players grew tired of him, he got relieved of his coaching duties.

Vigneault has had much more recent success. He's the polar opposite of Tortorella.

Only problem is neither of those two major pieces I bolded are realities. If you definitively think those are "reality," then we are living in very different universes. Please try to back those points up with specifics. I don't want generalities that can't be supported. Show me how Vigneault is the polar opposite of Torts or how Tortorella didn't maximize his players' potential. I'll wait.

 

[Kwayry]

Do I need to hold your hand and walk you through my post? It seems like you don't understand it.

I stopped at this.
Obviously you missed this , maybe it should have been this instead