Confirmed with Link: Rangers name Alain Vigneault head coach - Part II

  • Xenforo Cloud will be upgrading us to version 2.3.5 on March 3rd at 12 AM GMT. This version has increased stability and fixes several bugs. We expect downtime for the duration of the update. The admin team will continue to work on existing issues, templates and upgrade all necessary available addons to minimize impact of this new version. Click Here for Updates
Status
Not open for further replies.
Who's fault was it for our PP sucking the rest of the year?

I love your logic. Boston shutdown the hawks PP in 3 games, so our PP isn't Torts' fault. Really sound reasoning there.

Interesting to hear that you think Adam Oates is the best coach in hockey because they had the best power play.

Thanks for the lecture on reasoning.

If Oates had coached the Rangers they would be days from hoisting the Cup.

One thing no one here can deny is that Boston is great on the penalty kill.

Since we will be free from the bonds of Torts the Destroyer next year, the goals will flow and the Cup will parade down Broadway.

I am not a Torts supporter but I understand that personnel beats coaching.
 
I expect more with the roster we have and I have enough experience and knowledge to know that the guys we have now can certainly get the job done. (winning the cup)

This team has no PP QB to speak of, not a single LW that can consistently provide offense, and center depth that isn't exactly scaring anyone around the league.

My suggestion to you is take a look at the past Stanley Cup champions and reassess your "experience and knowledge," because its completely out of whack with reality.
 
Slats is a hypocrite.

If it wasn't for #99 and #11 his (Sather) stay in Edmonton would have been very short lived. He had zero, nada, none as in NO coaching experience before taking over the WHA Oilers. And he wasn't even a very good NYR player in his short stay here. Torts would have loved him though as he was a grinder! To say #11 has no coaching experience so he can't coach NYR is just plain wrong. I would trust #11 in 2013 much more than I would have trusted old #6 (Slats) in 1979. Someone believed in him and look at the results. Heck, it bought him 13+ disaster years in NYC. If anyone should have been pushing for #11 to coach NYR, Slats was the guy. Finally had a chance to do something right again, and it all goes up in cigar smoke. Now we have 5 more years of 80's early 90's BS to look forward to. Thanks for nothing, Slats.
 
If it wasn't for #99 and #11 his (Sather) stay in Edmonton would have been very short lived. He had zero, nada, none as in NO coaching experience before taking over the WHA Oilers. And he wasn't even a very good NYR player in his short stay here. Torts would have loved him though as he was a grinder! To say #11 has no coaching experience so he can't coach NYR is just plain wrong. I would trust #11 in 2013 much more than I would have trusted old #6 (Slats) in 1979. Someone believed in him and look at the results. Heck, it bought him 13+ disaster years in NYC. If anyone should have been pushing for #11 to coach NYR, Slats was the guy. Finally had a chance to do something right again, and it all goes up in cigar smoke. Now we have 5 more years of 80's early 90's BS to look forward to. Thanks for nothing, Slats.

Very reasonable post. You're upset that Sather didn't give the job to Mess due to nepotism and the fact that he once was a coach with little experience and thus it must mean that Mess would be a good coach with limited experience. It's mind boggling how emotional people get with something as important as a head coach. Messier should pretty much be a shoe in for the job because he won us a cup 20 years ago. Basically people want Mess because of sentimentality and the perception that being a great leader as a player makes you a great coach.
 
Last edited:
Very reasonable post. You're upset that Sather didn't give the job to Mess due to nepotism and the fact that he once was a coach with little experience and thus it must mean that Mess would be a good coach with limited experience. It's mind boggling how emotional people get with something as important as a head coach. Messier should pretty much be a shoe in for the job because he won us a cup 20 years ago. Basically people want Mess because of sentimentality and the perception that being a great leader as a makes you a great coach.

This, it's like they're still infants and Messier is a blanky.

Messier would have been a terrible choice. Let him toil as an assistant coach or a minor league HC first before you give him the Rangers job. You know like 99.9999% of all other coaches in the history of coaches. Giving him the job would have 1 benefit, it would most likely be the last coach Sather picks.

On second thought Messier might be a solid choice.
 
Very reasonable post. You're upset that Sather didn't give the job to Mess due to nepotism and the fact that he once was a coach with little experience and thus it must mean that Mess would be a good coach with limited experience. It's mind boggling how emotional people get with something as important as a head coach. Messier should pretty much be a shoe in for the job because he won us a cup 20 years ago. Basically people want Mess because of sentimentality and the perception that being a great leader as a makes you a great coach.

We'll never know what kind of coach he might become because he'll never get the chance. Coaching experience means very little. It's what you bring to it that matters and nobody could bring more than #11. If anyone should have known that, it was Slats. He went from nothing to numerous cups and HOF management career because someone believed in him. In my almost 50 years of being a NYR fan, I have exactly one year I can be proud of. #11 delivered that year and just might deliver some more if given the chance. Without that chance, we are stuck with another 5+ years of Disasters. I say give him a chance... if he wants it. The real question is Why would he want it? His legacy is on the line. If he wants it that bad, he must know something we don't! As Tug once said, "Ya gotta believe"!
 
We'll never know what kind of coach he might become because he'll never get the chance. Coaching experience means very little. It's what you bring to it that matters and nobody could bring more than #11. If anyone should have known that, it was Slats. He went from nothing to numerous cups and HOF management career because someone believed in him. In my almost 50 years of being a NYR fan, I have exactly one year I can be proud of. #11 delivered that year and just might deliver some more if given the chance. Without that chance, we are stuck with another 5+ years of Disasters. I say give him a chance... if he wants it. The real question is Why would he want it? His legacy is on the line. If he wants it that bad, he must know something we don't! As Tug once said, "Ya gotta believe"!

Coaching experience means a TON. Why do you think all of these young coaches, even former superstars, are coaching in the OHL, QMJHL, WHL, AHL and as Assistant's before getting a shot? Is Messier different? Why?
 
First thing I thought of:



:laugh:

I'm happy Vigneault got the gig. I wouldn't mind seeing Gernander be named assistant and Messier take over in HFD like some have insinuated. Throwing a rookie head coach onto a team with these types of expectations is a recipe for disaster.
 
Coaching experience means a TON. Why do you think all of these young coaches, even former superstars, are coaching in the OHL, QMJHL, WHL, AHL and as Assistant's before getting a shot? Is Messier different? Why?

They're coaching there because they are NOT Mark Messier. He has forgotten more hockey in his life then they will ever know. If he wants to put his legacy in NYC on the line, give him the chance. He believed we would win in '94 and we did. If he believes he is the best person to lead the Rangers back to glory, let him! Ye of little faith deserve 50 more years of nothing. I'm tired of the AV retreads. Heck, we gave up Joe Sakic for Michel Bergeron in '87, how did that retread coach work out for us? A number one pick for a coach, but he had a great track record.

Ranger history (disaster) has repeated itself too many times over my lifetime. Give Mess a chance.
 
They're coaching there because they are NOT Mark Messier. He has forgotten more hockey in his life then they will ever know. If he wants to put his legacy in NYC on the line, give him the chance. He believed we would win in '94 and we did. If he believes he is the best person to lead the Rangers back to glory, let him! Ye of little faith deserve 50 more years of nothing. I'm tired of the AV retreads. Heck, we gave up Joe Sakic for Michel Bergeron in '87, how did that retread coach work out for us? A number one pick for a coach, but he had a great track record.

Ranger history (disaster) has repeated itself too many times over my lifetime. Give Mess a chance.

Vigneault is the right hockey decision. What Im seeing here is we should give Messier a chance because he won a cup with the Rangers, as a player, 20 years ago.

Let Messier coach the Wolfpack and make his bones as a coach. Hes entitled to NOTHING when it comes to coaching and/or management as far as Im concerned.
 
They're coaching there because they are NOT Mark Messier. He has forgotten more hockey in his life then they will ever know. If he wants to put his legacy in NYC on the line, give him the chance. He believed we would win in '94 and we did. If he believes he is the best person to lead the Rangers back to glory, let him! Ye of little faith deserve 50 more years of nothing. I'm tired of the AV retreads. Heck, we gave up Joe Sakic for Michel Bergeron in '87, how did that retread coach work out for us? A number one pick for a coach, but he had a great track record.

Ranger history (disaster) has repeated itself too many times over my lifetime. Give Mess a chance.

Messier would BE a disaster. I believe we would in '94 and we did. I also believe I'm the best person to lead the Rangers back to glory, let me!
 
They're coaching there because they are NOT Mark Messier. He has forgotten more hockey in his life then they will ever know. If he wants to put his legacy in NYC on the line, give him the chance. He believed we would win in '94 and we did. If he believes he is the best person to lead the Rangers back to glory, let him! Ye of little faith deserve 50 more years of nothing. I'm tired of the AV retreads. Heck, we gave up Joe Sakic for Michel Bergeron in '87, how did that retread coach work out for us? A number one pick for a coach, but he had a great track record.

Ranger history (disaster) has repeated itself too many times over my lifetime. Give Mess a chance.


Yeah he's a superstar, and we all know superstar players teach/coach better than everyone else. amirite?


If a Superstar that thinks the game better than everyone else is the requisite you're using, why not hire Bobby Orr to coach defense? I mean he can teach MDZ to watch the opposing players hips to see which way to get around him. I mean surely he can teach something that easy, right?

Look at the long list of superstar coaches that won a Stanley Cup after being hired with no prior coaching experience. Geez, that list is miles long and if anyone can do it it's Messier. Pfizer should get in touch with Messier, I think his tears can cure cancer. That is if it's possible someone so perfect does in fact have tear ducts.

Edit: I love Messier as a player he is an absolutely nauseating choice as coach though.
 
The genuine anger of Torts and his "truthful" albeit sometimes inaccurate criticisms make him seem more accountable and therefore, less at fault for failures. Also, the game he plays and makes the team play is a hard working game. When team is losing = team not working hard enough therefore he gets to say things like "we need to be better, play harder etc." and make himself look good. His blunt criticism of certain players, situations also helps deflect criticisms and blame. He also doesn't answer key questions and gets away with some aspects of his failures.

Interesting....

Yeah, Torts should write a book on this. He is amazing at it.

-Its like he every time there is even a remote excuse for something he says something like: "We are not going to make the road trip an excuse for not working hard". And the media writes something like, "NYR came out looking tired after a 3 game road trip. John Tortorella however held the team accountable and said they wouldn't use that as an excuse."

-If we lost a game against a team that just got decent goaltending, he always blamed the loss on the team we played against getting quote "better" goaltending. He almost never gave Hank credit for a win.

-We lived -- solely -- on getting D's on the team we played against to cough up pucks. God forbid one of our D's ever gave the puck away. He named them and tore them apart infront of the media.

If D's in this league are pressured, they will sooner or later cough up pucks. When Callahan forces a turnover and we get a chance, from the other side it is a D coughing up the puck. Its as simple as that. That was our main source of offense. But like I said, any time WE lost a game thanks to one of our D's being pressured by a "Callahan" on the other team, Torts was generous for not letting that D walk home after the game...

-His talk about tough camp lol. Jesus christ what a bunch of BS. Anyone, even the person just working out to stay in shape who never have played pro sports, understands that you cannot in any way long term impact someone's physical status during a period of two weeks. Not to mention a professional athleet.

What you do in camp, how hard you skate in camp, will have an extremely marginal impact in relation to the conditioning of a player during an 82-game season. These guys have built up their bodies over a 15-25 year period. What Torts did was having his team skate hard for -- in reality -- 3 days or something like that in camp. Then he ran a camp just like everyone else, after the intial drills. Then he went on and on about how well conditioned his players where thanks to it. 100% BS propaganda.

-Torts was tough towards media, and hence his team was perceived as "tough". We were never physical under Torts. Looking at big hits, Strålman landed like one per season and then MDZ maybe had one or two here and there, besides that we never hit. We must have been one of the least physical teams in the league to play against. What, 3 or 4 big hits over the course of 3 seasons.

We didn't even really consistently in any meaningful way stand up for each other, besides maybe for shorter periods last season.

Nobody ever called us out for being maybe the softest team in the league in terms of hitting under Torts. Imagine if Renney would have iced a team that litterary never landed a bigger hit, 90% of the fans would hate him for icing such a soft team.

Torts was really really a master at not taking responsibility for the team he puts on the ice. It was even like the worse coached team Torts put on the ice, the softer it was, the less the players worked on the ice, the more some liked Torts.
 
Interesting to hear that you think Adam Oates is the best coach in hockey because they had the best power play.

Thanks for the lecture on reasoning.

If Oates had coached the Rangers they would be days from hoisting the Cup.

One thing no one here can deny is that Boston is great on the penalty kill.

Since we will be free from the bonds of Torts the Destroyer next year, the goals will flow and the Cup will parade down Broadway.

I am not a Torts supporter but I understand that personnel beats coaching.

Lol, where did I mention anything about Oates? That might be true based on your twisted logic.

Not one person has said that the roster is perfect, or that another coach would have won a cup with this roster. No one has claimed that Sather did a good job putting the team together.

But that doesn't mean Torts wasn't at fault also. And trying to argue that he wasn't at fault for our awful PP because boston shutdown the hawks PP for 3 games is ridiculous. You assume that boston's PK is just that good and therefore, it wasn't really our PP that was bad, but that's obviously a complete fallacy. Our PP sucked against everyone, not just boston.

You obviously have an agenda here, as you last tried to make the same argument with this beauty:

Now that Boston has wasted Pittsburgh, isn't it apparent to most people that the reason the Rangers loss to the Bruins had nothing to do with their coach?

If you can't see how illogical that conclusion is, I don't know what to tell you. How boston does against other teams doesn't change how well or poorly Torts coached this team.

You claim to not be a Torts supporter or hater, yet you've spent an awful lot of time trying to defend him. Too bad your arguments are all based on faulty logic.
 
Messier would BE a disaster. I believe we would in '94 and we did. I also believe I'm the best person to lead the Rangers back to glory, let me!

But what if he wasn't a disaster. What if he delivered just like he has in the past. Hard to imagine. Not hard to imagine what another retread coach will lead us to. NOTHING. We need to change things up. Same old same old grows tiring after 50 years. One cup, 50 years. But lets do it your way. You all deserve what you are going to get. Nothing but more disaster. If Mess ended up a disaster, just add him to the long line of prior ones and go back to retreads. At least it MIGHT end up different this time, it did once before. That's all we have to go on as Ranger fans, once before.
 
We'll never know what kind of coach he might become because he'll never get the chance. Coaching experience means very little. It's what you bring to it that matters and nobody could bring more than #11. If anyone should have known that, it was Slats. He went from nothing to numerous cups and HOF management career because someone believed in him. In my almost 50 years of being a NYR fan, I have exactly one year I can be proud of. #11 delivered that year and just might deliver some more if given the chance. Without that chance, we are stuck with another 5+ years of Disasters. I say give him a chance... if he wants it. The real question is Why would he want it? His legacy is on the line. If he wants it that bad, he must know something we don't! As Tug once said, "Ya gotta believe"!

I really don't want to come off rude, but you are someone that watched the Rangers for 50 years but have the mindset of a teenager. You want the guy based on sentimentality, because he provided you with a cup 20 years ago. It's completely irrational. You have been force fed this MSG marketing and have been brainwashed into believing that Messier and the rest of the 94 Rangers are gods among men. It's time to let go of 94. Messier was a great leader and may have been a great coach, but despite your baseless claim that experience means "very little" (this would be the only non-data entry job that you could make that claim for), there is ZERO reason for Sather to take an unnecessary risk on Messier when there are less risky coaches available. Yes Sather can swing for the fences and hope that Messier will be significantly better than anyone else he hires (for the risk to be worth it, it has to be significantly better) or he can take a safer choice where he doesn't have to take unnecessary risk on and can still have great results. The only reasons Sather would take a huge unnecessary risk with Mess is that everyone else available sucks, or he's making a decision based on sentimentality (in that case he needs to be fired).
 
But what if he wasn't a disaster. What if he delivered just like he has in the past. Hard to imagine. Not hard to imagine what another retread coach will lead us to. NOTHING. We need to change things up. Same old same old grows tiring after 50 years. One cup, 50 years. But lets do it your way. You all deserve what you are going to get. Nothing but more disaster. If Mess ended up a disaster, just add him to the long line of prior ones and go back to retreads. At least it MIGHT end up different this time, it did once before. That's all we have to go on as Ranger fans, once before.

What are you basing the fact that a retread coach would be a disaster? AV has head coached one other team in the NHL. Most coaches that have coached for a while get fired at some point and are retreads. Saying that retread will lead us to NOTHING is completely baseless and is you attempting to sound rational rather than sentimental (which is it actually is). Just admit that you want Mess because he got us a cup and be done with it.
 
Edmonton employs good old boys from their hey days. How is that working out for them?
 
But what if he wasn't a disaster. What if he delivered just like he has in the past. Hard to imagine. Not hard to imagine what another retread coach will lead us to. NOTHING. We need to change things up. Same old same old grows tiring after 50 years. One cup, 50 years. But lets do it your way. You all deserve what you are going to get. Nothing but more disaster. If Mess ended up a disaster, just add him to the long line of prior ones and go back to retreads. At least it MIGHT end up different this time, it did once before. That's all we have to go on as Ranger fans, once before.

He delivered as a player not as a coach. We need to change things up, but not to give a win-now team to somebody who has never coached before. That would be akin to giving the chief engineer position for a new bridge to somebody who hasn't even graduated from engineering college yet.
 
Vigneault was the safest option out there. Messier would've been a shot in the dark that would probably fail miserably. Give it a rest.

And my 1000th post is about ****ing Messier being a coach. God dammit.
 
He delivered as a player not as a coach. We need to change things up, but not to give a win-now team to somebody who has never coached before. That would be akin to giving the chief engineer position for a new bridge to somebody who hasn't even graduated from engineering college yet.

If you think this is a "win-now" team I've got a bridge to sell you. We have a young team with a great goalie. Leadership is greatly lacking and only time will tell if AV is that leader. A crap shoot at best. Glad you have lots of years left to play craps.
 
If you think this is a "win-now" team I've got a bridge to sell you. We have a young team with a great goalie. Leadership is greatly lacking and only time will tell if AV is that leader. A crap shoot at best. Glad you have lots of years left to play craps.

How is Messier, with ZERO coaching experience, not a bigger crap shoot?

Being a great leader as a player means nothing if he doesn't know how to coach. There's a lot more to coaching than just understanding the game. Gretzky is the greatest player of all time and he failed as a coach. Tippett came in and made that team instantly better.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad