Post-Game Talk: Rangers @ Canucks -- 11/3/21

[TheDirtyH]

Just finished that one and it's funny how satisfied I was with that game; logged in expecting some shoulder shrugs, come to find pages of rage and directed at, of all players, guys who played 13:30 and 12:30 last night.

My feeling, before reading the thread was: great that the powerplay woke up.

After ten games we know: we have an elite goalie, we have the best defenseman in the league and he's going to play 25+ a night, we have a very effective second pair, our penalty kill has been and could be very good, our powerplay hasn't clicked, we're struggling to generate offense.

I thought our breakouts were much better last night. I thought we did a good job managing the puck. I thought the forecheck was stronger. For sure, chemistry is off with the forwards. But the effort looks good to me. The buy-in looks good.

At 6-2-2 I see a team with a strong foundation and a ton of upside. They're playing good defense and getting great goaltending. They don't have the attack down yet, but I think that's more likely to improve than if things were the other way around.

 

[duhmetreE]

That tying goal is 100% on Laf. From a poor clearing attempt (admittedly he had pressure on him), he did this odd clothesline maneuver on Podkolzin which he was lucky he never got called for, however Podkolzin jumped right up and attacked the net with Laf leisurely coasting behind him, watching. The Canuck point man was outside the zone and just barely starting to come back in. Sure there's some blame to pass around on the whole sequence of zone time, but Laf had a chance to own that situation.

I'm tired of watching him just go through the motions. Is Laf at the root of our issues? Absolutely not, but I'm just seeing way too much comfort out there.

Before all the Laf fans come at me with pitchforks - no I'm not giving up on him. But he REALLY needs to start engaging and looking alive out there. That's not "development/still new to the league/he's young so give him time/long lay off after draft - it's having hustle and determination, move your ass!

We're 6-2-2 on the back of our goaltending, the sky isn't falling however there's some glaring items that need addressing. Rangers are heading to my neck of the woods, please deliver a 2 piece combo on CGY/EDM for me

That's how I feel about the entire team. We have no energy or we dont play with any urgency.

A player like Garland/Gourde can go a long way... Energize the team

 

[Tob]

That's how I feel about the entire team. We have no energy or we dont play with any urgency.

A player like Garland/Gourde can go a long way... Energize the team

For 3 games then they become another NYR hot garbage bust

 

[Tob]

Just finished that one and it's funny how satisfied I was with that win; logged in expecting some shoulder shrugs, come to find pages of rage and directed at, of all players, guys who played 13:30 and 12:30 last night.

My feeling, before reading the thread was: great that the powerplay woke up.

After ten games we know: we have an elite goalie, we have the best defenseman in the league and he's going to play 25+ a night, we have a very effective second pair, our penalty kill has been and could be very good, our powerplay hasn't clicked, we're struggling to generate offense.

I thought our breakouts were much better last night. I thought we did a good job managing the puck. I thought the forecheck was stronger. For sure, chemistry is off with the forwards. But the effort looks good to me. The buy-in looks good.

At 6-2-2 I see a team with a strong foundation and a ton of upside. They're playing good defense and getting great goaltending. They don't have the attack down yet, but I think that's more likely to improve than if things were the other way around.

whatever the f*** is going on with the forward group, the lack of cohesion, the disgruntled play on the ice, it's a make or break. It's an entitled group.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

How do you lose to Vancouver after being up 2-0 going into the third period?

Honestly, maybe I expect too much from where this team is at and where they should be.

 

[CLW]

The dmen are getting ragged on unfairly. The forwards are doing nothing to help them. They do not know how to move the puck out of the defensive zone. The dmen are doing their jobs for the most part, getting to the puck first and moving it to their partner, who then makes the first outlet pass or reverses it to create a different outlet. That's exactly when shit starts to happen. I know sometimes the dman shouldn't have made the pass he made into danger. But often it's the forward, who tries a chip pass that gets intercepted, tries a headman pass that doesn't connect, or gets trapped immediately by a forechecker and can't move the puck. Then it's a second chance for the other team on that shift. Rinse and repeat, and the other team gets a third crack at it on the same shift. By that time, everyone's scrambling and out of position.

The D needs to play the puck faster and harder up the ice. The forward must be able to just deflect the puck off the boards and out of the zone if they don't have a play. In general the team needs to move the puck much faster so they start to skate again. People say we have a slow team, but they are ok as long as they move their feet. Too often the forwards end up stationary in the D or neutral zone and then can't get going fast enough.

So those are the two things needed for immediate improvement. The D that gets to the puck first moves it much faster and with speed, the forwards keep their feet moving and don't allow themselves to get pinned down with the puck. If there is no play just get it out of the zone for the other forwards to pursue with speed. That's what teams like Florida and Carolina are doing and it keeps the tempo in their game high.

 

[MrAlmost]

For 3 games then they become another NYR hot garbage bust

Our best players are usually ones that arent Rangers products. Thats concerning, but that has been for years now.

 

[duhmetreE]

I think this is my biggest takeaway RE the even strength scoring issues. Mika looks like shit, Strome's reverted to the guy who was leeching off of Panarin (who looks like shit so there's not much to leech from now), and Chytil wouldn't know how to use his line mates (or make himself useful to his line mates) to save his life.

Not like the top 9 wingers have been great or anything (Barclay Goodrow being leaned on as some swiss army player is frustrating, he was the worst of the three players on Tampa's energy line and we're treating him like he was the best), but the centers are not coming remotely close to driving play in any capacity.

We need to try something drastically different. Styles and combos need to be changed.

Panarin Zibs Chytil
Kreider Strome Kakko
Lafreniere Barron Goodrow
Hunt Rooney Reaves/Blais

we need something.... this might not be the answer but it's definitely something different.

 

[Kovalev27]

Not for nothing but it shouldn’t be ignored. We’ve only played 10 games and of those 10 7 have been road games. No one looks their best on the road. Traditionally if you can play 500 hockey on the road you’re a good team because you’ll be better at home and frankly. We’ve had a real tough schedule in that regard to start. Lot of travel lot of games in a short period of time. We’ve had injuries in our top 6. So there’s going to be a need to get settled. Get some home games under our belt. As it is we’ve got two more road games coming up here. That’s 9 of our first 12 on the road. Not easy

 

[bl02]

Still pisses me off that the Rangers just threw away JT Miller. Don't think I will ever be over it. One of the few 1st round forwards drafted in my lifetime that actually worked out. Would look so good in the NYR top 6.

Yep! Gotta give him credit he was the main push for his team last night. He was pissed after missing some chances in the second but didn't stop coming all night. Went to the dirty areas and got himself 2 goals.

 

[bl02]

They better be on some good espresso friday night and/or they better have a super high shooting percentage because most likely 1-2 goals is not gonna work.

 

[duhmetreE]

Still pisses me off that the Rangers just threw away JT Miller. Don't think I will ever be over it. One of the few 1st round forwards drafted in my lifetime that actually worked out. Would look so good in the NYR top 6.

That trade somehow keeps getting worse... What a disaster.

 

[Kravtsov420]

Send Mika, Panarin, strome a message. Put them on the third and fourth line for a couple of minutes, see if they get the message then.
You buy in to how we have to play, or you don’t f***in play. It’s a country club out there

 

[JohnC]

We need to try something drastically different. Styles and combos need to be changed.

Panarin Zibs Chytil
Kreider Strome Kakko
Lafreniere Barron Goodrow
Hunt Rooney Reaves/Blais

we need something.... this might not be the answer but it's definitely something different.

I think even shuffling the wingers around will help a lot. Goodrow in the top 6 is like Colin Blackwell in the top 6 for me.

I'm not ready to sound any alarms since they're building a cushion with these wins, but I don't see a scenario where these lines all of a sudden start gelling. I'd maybe try a top 9 of this for a few games:

Kreider-Zib-Kakko
Panarin-Strome-Blais/Goodrow
Laf-Chytil-Goodrow/Blais

 

[CLW]

Not for nothing but it shouldn’t be ignored. We’ve only played 10 games and of those 10 7 have been road games. No one looks their best on the road. Traditionally if you can play 500 hockey on the road you’re a good team because you’ll be better at home and frankly. We’ve had a real tough schedule in that regard to start. Lot of travel lot of games in a short period of time. We’ve had injuries in our top 6. So there’s going to be a need to get settled. Get some home games under our belt. As it is we’ve got two more road games coming up here. That’s 9 of our first 12 on the road. Not easy

Using Kakko as an example both in Seattle and Vancouver there were plenty of times he dropped back into a conscientious F3 position instead of pressuring in the offensive zone. I don't doubt it's been under instruction from the coaches.

 

[Mac n Gs]

The two main issues plaguing this team are heavily driven by the forwards not really grasping what they should be doing in our system yet.

On the backcheck, they’re still losing the assignments for who should be picking up weakside threats, and it’s allowing teams to attack us off the rush too easily with east-west passes. When the dman have controlled the gaps off the rush, it’s covered for a lot of the defensive issues for the forwards.

When we’re attacking on the rush, we’re focused way too much on chipping pucks deep, and it’s leading to the Fs not fully grasping on who should be F1, F2, and F3. As a result, you’re seeing 3 guys go deep below the hashmarks and absolutely no one going into the slot. It’s making us way too easy to defend, and teams just drop into simple box+1 to freeze us out on offense. The two times we looked good offensively were against Dallas and Columbus when we were much more in sync and were spreading the forwards out more to make it harder for defenses to defend. It also allows our defense to activate, which keeps everyone skating and in motion and wears the other team out.

Stop playing Tinordi. Either play Nils or call up Jones.

f*** Chris Rooney for breaking the flow of the game last night with some of those horseshit penalties.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Not for nothing but it shouldn’t be ignored. We’ve only played 10 games and of those 10 7 have been road games. No one looks their best on the road. Traditionally if you can play 500 hockey on the road you’re a good team because you’ll be better at home and frankly. We’ve had a real tough schedule in that regard to start. Lot of travel lot of games in a short period of time. We’ve had injuries in our top 6. So there’s going to be a need to get settled. Get some home games under our belt. As it is we’ve got two more road games coming up here. That’s 9 of our first 12 on the road. Not easy

I've heard Gallant noting this in a lot of his pressers too. How this team has played more games than anyone else really and all of them pretty much on the road.

And they arent road games to Philly or Jersey. They are long plane rides.

We just tune into watch the games and expect the same effort and cohesion every night (which is ok) but we dont see all of the travel and hotel stays and practices in some lesser visitor facilities. They really haven't had much practice and leisure time at home, which helps with recovery and focus. They had the one stretch two weeks ago with a few days off and they dominated Columbus.

I definitely think Gallant understands this since he's played and hes a players coach. He wants to keep things light and understandably so considering this team is off to a very good start in the standings considering their schedule. I thought maybe he could have laid into this team after a couple stinkers, including giving up the lead last night and he didn't - it was quite the opposite.

It gets a little easier this month after they come back East, especially the last week going into December when theyll have 5 out of 7 home games in 15 days and only have to travel as far as Boston for the road games. Let's hope they stay healthy and then we will really see what we have closer to the new year.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Am I the only one who wouldn’t mind a huge shake up trade? Trade one of Laf/Kakko while they still have high value IMO

 

[duhmetreE]

Am I the only one who wouldn’t mind a huge shake up trade? Trade one of Laf/Kakko while they still have high value IMO

We need a complete overhaul on our middle6 centers.

Trading young/cost effective players for high salary isn't an option. Another top young player would have to be coming back. I don't know why the other team would do that. We could trade defense for a center... don't see a team trading us their center for a winger.

 

[Kovalev27]

I've heard Gallant noting this in a lot of his pressers too. How this team has played more games than anyone else really and all of them pretty much on the road.

And they arent road games to Philly or Jersey. They are long plane rides.

We just tune into watch the games and expect the same effort and cohesion every night (which is ok) but we dont see all of the travel and hotel stays and practices in some lesser visitor facilities. They really haven't had much practice and leisure time at home, which helps with recovery and focus. They had the one stretch two weeks ago with a few days off and they dominated Columbus.

I definitely think Gallant understands this since he's played and hes a players coach. He wants to keep things light and understandably so considering this team is off to a very good start in the standings considering their schedule. I thought maybe he could have laid into this team after a couple stinkers, including giving up the lead last night and he didn't - it was quite the opposite.

It gets a little easier this month after they come back East, especially the last week going into December when theyll have 5 out of 7 home games in 15 days and only have to travel as far as Boston for the road games. Let's hope they stay healthy and then we will really see what we have closer to the new year.

People forget it’s not a video game. This is as tough a stretch as you’ll have all year. Normally you’d just want to survive it. With it being at the start of the season fans just want them to come out taking over games but it’s not realistic.

I’ll also tell you there’s a misconception that since the season just started everyone isn’t tired. It’s quite the opposite. You can only get into real game shape by playing games and getting back into the swing of things. That can take a bit of time. Ive seen us play a lot of games completely gassed.

at the end of the day I think we’re going to be alot closer to the team we saw against Columbus than the team were seeing playing their 7th road game currently on a west coast swing.

 

[will1066]

The D needs to play the puck faster and harder up the ice. The forward must be able to just deflect the puck off the boards and out of the zone if they don't have a play. In general the team needs to move the puck much faster so they start to skate again. People say we have a slow team, but they are ok as long as they move their feet. Too often the forwards end up stationary in the D or neutral zone and then can't get going fast enough.

So those are the two things needed for immediate improvement. The D that gets to the puck first moves it much faster and with speed, the forwards keep their feet moving and don't allow themselves to get pinned down with the puck. If there is no play just get it out of the zone for the other forwards to pursue with speed. That's what teams like Florida and Carolina are doing and it keeps the tempo in their game high.

All of this is true. It seems to be style issue with some of the forwards. Panarin likes to be stationary when he gets the puck from the D. It could also be system-related. A lot of times the F getting the first pass from the D likes to move the puck to the next F rather than carry it out. This really affects their speed coming out. The third D pair really has trouble moving the puck with speed, so the forwards playing with them are always getting hemmed in.

And the pattern I've noticed with this Gallant team is that they usually start well in games with their breakouts and their structure but starts to break down by late in the first.

 

[will1066]

I'm a mystery. I'm not happy with the way the team is playing this season, I get it. I also complain in the GDT. But looking at it big picture when this board is as depressing as the Giants board and the team is 6-2-2, no matter how poorly they looked it's just not right. People complaining about looking poorly and winning, last year in the beginning they looked pretty good and lost, and everyone still complained. As a fan of a Giants team that finds ways to lose I'll take finding ways to win more often than not.

Fair enough. Personally, I get more down about playing like shit and winning than playing well and losing.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Miller-Trouba were flat out the reason they lost that game. At least one of them was on the ice for all 3 goals.

K’Andre Miller is just a dumb hockey player

I've been told he has been good this year.

I haven't seen it.

 

[TheDirtyH]

whatever the f*** is going on with the forward group, the lack of cohesion, the disgruntled play on the ice, it's a make or break. It's an entitled group.

Yeah but we know that these individuals can play better--are better players than they've been so far. We know Chytil is capable of more than 1 point in 10 games. We know Kakko is capable of more than 0s. We know that Panarin and Mika have much more to give.

Of course, it could be a tough season where things don't click, but I think you're more likely to end up improving when your foundation is there and you're winning regardless of individual performances (from the forwards). In 2011-12, Richards was supposed to come in and unlock the offense. He didn't, but he had a decent season and the team excelled after a slow start (4-3-3 in their first 10). In 2013-14 Stepan was coming off a ppg year, Rick Nash was right there and scored at a 40 goal clip--our leading scorer that year had 59 points (Zuccarello who had all of 2 points in his first 10 games).

Those teams had big expectations and big changes going into their respective seasons. They had great goaltending and they had a lot of character.

I keep saying it but I'm excited to see Kreider, Shesterkin, Fox, Trouba, Miller, Blais, the whole fourth line (including McKegg somehow), and Goodrow play to the level that before the season I could only say I'd be wishing they would. I think this team's potential is going to take time to realize, but a winning record through a tough early schedule with the bones of the team holding strong, for me, gives me more room for optimism.

 

[Brother Mouzone]

Just finished that one and it's funny how satisfied I was with that game; logged in expecting some shoulder shrugs, come to find pages of rage and directed at, of all players, guys who played 13:30 and 12:30 last night.

My feeling, before reading the thread was: great that the powerplay woke up.

After ten games we know: we have an elite goalie, we have the best defenseman in the league and he's going to play 25+ a night, we have a very effective second pair, our penalty kill has been and could be very good, our powerplay hasn't clicked, we're struggling to generate offense.

I thought our breakouts were much better last night. I thought we did a good job managing the puck. I thought the forecheck was stronger. For sure, chemistry is off with the forwards. But the effort looks good to me. The buy-in looks good.

At 6-2-2 I see a team with a strong foundation and a ton of upside. They're playing good defense and getting great goaltending. They don't have the attack down yet, but I think that's more likely to improve than if things were the other way around.

Not for nothing but it shouldn’t be ignored. We’ve only played 10 games and of those 10 7 have been road games. No one looks their best on the road. Traditionally if you can play 500 hockey on the road you’re a good team because you’ll be better at home and frankly. We’ve had a real tough schedule in that regard to start. Lot of travel lot of games in a short period of time. We’ve had injuries in our top 6. So there’s going to be a need to get settled. Get some home games under our belt. As it is we’ve got two more road games coming up here. That’s 9 of our first 12 on the road. Not easy

I've heard Gallant noting this in a lot of his pressers too. How this team has played more games than anyone else really and all of them pretty much on the road.

And they arent road games to Philly or Jersey. They are long plane rides.

We just tune into watch the games and expect the same effort and cohesion every night (which is ok) but we dont see all of the travel and hotel stays and practices in some lesser visitor facilities. They really haven't had much practice and leisure time at home, which helps with recovery and focus. They had the one stretch two weeks ago with a few days off and they dominated Columbus.

I definitely think Gallant understands this since he's played and hes a players coach. He wants to keep things light and understandably so considering this team is off to a very good start in the standings considering their schedule. I thought maybe he could have laid into this team after a couple stinkers, including giving up the lead last night and he didn't - it was quite the opposite.

It gets a little easier this month after they come back East, especially the last week going into December when theyll have 5 out of 7 home games in 15 days and only have to travel as far as Boston for the road games. Let's hope they stay healthy and then we will really see what we have closer to the new year.

More reasonable and rational takes ..