Post-Game Talk: Rangers @ Canucks -- 11/3/21

[Machinehead]

We think of "development" as young players but it's so much more than that.

The successful teams make ok players good and good players great. At any age. The Tampa Bay Lightning made Coleman, Gourde, and Goodrow a lot of money, and they weren't young kids.

Defense, good enough, and our goaltending is as good as it gets. I'm not satisfied at all with the direction our forwards head when they get here. Even Panarin, I think, could be better in two zones and has picked up some really annoying habits here.

I mentioned before that teams have cultures that transcend coaches and management. I remember long ago a GDT getting mad/laughing at Torts because he said "we don't coach offense." I wonder how true that was and how much of that is a deeper-rooted franchise MO.

We certainly look like a team that doesn't coach offense. And you have to. Sure, there's an element of freedom to it. Sometimes you have to let your top guys dangle the shit out of somebody. But he has to know when to do it and when not to. The timing of your risks and extracurricular plays has to be coached, in and of itself. Panarin's antics this year and the play Miller made 3v3 are just a couple of many examples this year where we don't have the timing.

I've said it time and again about Lafreniere and Kakko that I see the ability. Lafreniere will make a nice rush and Kakko will do his board magic and then when they have the puck in a dangerous position, it's like they've never played hockey before.

Our kids don't seem to get NHL offense and the vets who already know it are freelancing way too much. We're not effectively communicating a plan.

 

[romba]

Lack of puck support in the D zone, and guys missing the obvious options and going for the dumb ones.

On Vancouver's second goal Laffy has 2 options 4-10 feet behind him if he had protected the puck with his butt and turned around for half a second and not be worried about taking a hit. Worst case he has a puck battle on his hands if he can't dish it off in time. Instead he clears the puck at a 90 degree angle straight into the boards and Vancouver maintains possession easily.

On the first Vancouver goal, what was Trouba doing chasing the point man when Strome is on his way over too? Was heartwarming as he and Strome were getting romantic arm in arm heading to the point together. Is this AV man on man D lol?

Miller wasn't sure who to cover (who can blame him!) and ended up not getting anyone.

 

[Tob]

Lack of puck support in the D zone, and guys missing the obvious options and going for the dumb ones.

On Vancouver's second goal Laffy has 2 options 4-10 feet behind him if he had protected the puck with his butt and turned around for half a second and not be worried about taking a hit. Worst case he has a puck battle on his hands if he can't dish it off in time. Instead he clears the puck at a 90 degree angle straight into the boards and Vancouver maintains possession easily.

View attachment 476553

On the first Vancouver goal, what was Trouba doing chasing the point man when Strome is on his way over too? Was heartwarming as he and Strome were getting romantic arm in arm heading to the point together. Is this AV man on man D lol?

View attachment 476552

Miller wasn't sure who to cover (who can blame him!) and ended up not getting anyone.

we just did more video together than the team will under Gallant

 

[CLW]

We think of "development" as young players but it's so much more than that.

The successful teams make ok players good and good players great. At any age. The Tampa Bay Lightning made Coleman, Gourde, and Goodrow a lot of money, and they weren't young kids.

Defense, good enough, and our goaltending is as good as it gets. I'm not satisfied at all with the direction our forwards head when they get here. Even Panarin, I think, could be better in two zones and has picked up some really annoying habits here.

I mentioned before that teams have cultures that transcend coaches and management. I remember long ago a GDT getting mad/laughing at Torts because he said "we don't coach offense." I wonder how true that was and how much of that is a deeper-rooted franchise MO.

We certainly look like a team that doesn't coach offense. And you have to. Sure, there's an element of freedom to it. Sometimes you have to let your top guys dangle the shit out of somebody. But he has to know when to do it and when not to. The timing of your risks and extracurricular plays has to be coached, in and of itself. Panarin's antics this year and the play Miller made 3v3 are just a couple of many examples this year where we don't have the timing.

I've said it time and again about Lafreniere and Kakko that I see the ability. Lafreniere will make a nice rush and Kakko will do his board magic and then when they have the puck in a dangerous position, it's like they've never played hockey before.

Our kids don't seem to get NHL offense and the vets who already know it are freelancing way too much. We're not effectively communicating a plan.

That is why I am so pissed off. I am looking to Gallant to lift the team into a cup contender but that requires everyone to buy in and put the team before their individual stats. I am looking at the expensive vets to climb down off their high horse and start to buy in and integrate the kids into the team.

Tampa is an excellent model because they are drilled through and through in not only one tactic or style, but proved they could compete against different teams and different styles coming at them. They played with complete lines, not some individual stars free lancing and doing their own thing for their own reasons and to their own profit.

Yes, the kids are not there yet, but the point about making ok players good and good players great is exactly where they are at. No doubt they are working hard at it, but nothing much will happen until the Rangers become a unified TEAM.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

This is my point. The obsession is too much. The take that Miller needs AHL time to work on his positioning is not an anti-Miller thing and it's not based off of an aggressive push up in 3v3 OT. Don't even have a problem with that.

It's about him getting caught out of position multiple times a game. Sometimes the raw talent is on display as he is fast and long enough to recover (that's what she said). Other times it is a disaster. Seeing that raw talent is awesome and makes me think long term he will be dynamite. I just think he's better served learning the position outside of being on the 2nd pairing of an NHL team looking to make the playoffs. I also think Zac Jones looked better and more positionally sound/reliable in the stint he had and preseason.

Find these and post them.They don't happen that often and this is just confirmation bias.

His positioning has been fine. Even the goal he got beat on last night he was IN position, he didn't get under the stick.

 

[bbny]

Find these and post them.They don't happen that often and this is just confirmation bias.

His positioning has been fine. Even the goal he got beat on last night he was IN position, he didn't get under the stick.

No. I don't care enough to convince you, nor do I have the time to sniff out video clips lol. I know what I've seen.

The point was the feedback being given about him is not coming from some "anti-Miller" angle. It's okay to critique players without disliking them.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

No. I don't care enough to convince you, nor do I have the time to sniff out video clips lol. I know what I've seen.

The point was the feedback being given about him is not coming from some "anti-Miller" angle. It's okay to critique players without disliking them.

Of course, but I've also watched the games this year and have a pretty good idea of what I'm watching so I'm telling you that you're either biased or seeing things that aren't happening.

But heres a tip - if you're going to make a statement like "so and so is out of position too often", you best come with examples. If you don't want to clip them, you can mention which ones they were. Not that hard to do, especially if they're as plentiful as you claim they are.

 

[Chytilmania]

Turns out Covid Mika was just Mika

We need Mike Zibanejad back. He scored 12 points in 2 games.

 

[Machinehead]

That is why I am so pissed off. I am looking to Gallant to lift the team into a cup contender but that requires everyone to buy in and put the team before their individual stats. I am looking at the expensive vets to climb down off their high horse and start to buy in and integrate the kids into the team.

Tampa is an excellent model because they are drilled through and through in not only one tactic or style, but proved they could compete against different teams and different styles coming at them. They played with complete lines, not some individual stars free lancing and doing their own thing for their own reasons and to their own profit.

Yes, the kids are not there yet, but the point about making ok players good and good players great is exactly where they are at. No doubt they are working hard at it, but nothing much will happen until the Rangers become a unified TEAM.

I'm seeing Gallant make a difference in some areas. We're certainly physical in a more constructive way and doing the stupid tough guy shit less. That said, there hasn't been a buy-in yet on a team identity offensively, and I think this is something that has kind of festered with this organization across multiple coaches.

Not saying Gallant can't change it, but he has some work ahead of him.

 

[Machinehead]

I think I read recently that Miller-Trouba is like the third best pair in hockey so far by xGF%.

That ain't the issue.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I think I read recently that Miller-Trouba is like the third best pair in hockey so far by xGF%.

That ain't the issue.

Not after last night, but yeah they have been good. Least of the issues right now.

 

[Chytilmania]

Panarin - Kravtsov - Blais
Kreider - Zibanejad - Reaves
Chytil - Strome - Goodrow
Barron - Rooney - Hunt

Lindgren - Fox
Jones - Trouba
Miller - Nemeth

Laf, Kakko & Lundkvist to AHL

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Reaves turned into a scoring machine there lol.

I definitely want to see Jones and Nils swap for now. I would drop Laf or Kakko to the 4th line for one game and reward Hunt. Put some pressure on these guys.

 

[JohnC]

Don’t get the Miller criticism at all.

He looks night and day from the end of last season/this preseason.

The top 4 on defense has been fine.

 

[Chytilmania]

There is still a lot of time to fix the mistakes. The biggest take away is that we are getting points while going through the growing pains. A lot of fans care more about them being right or their player playing or whatever. But the fact of the matter is no one single player can change this team right now. It has to be internal. And that’s what GG is doing. Obviously these things take time. I’d say everyone relax but this world seems to love negativity more and more each day. So just do you I guess lol.

2014-15
Oct: 3-2-3
Nov: 6-4-3
Dec: 7-4-3
Jan: 5-6-1
2015-16
Oct: 5-4-2
Nov: 5-5-2
Dec: 11-3
Jan: 8-3-1
2016-17
Oct: 4-4-1
Nov: 7-6-1 (fired)
Dec: 5-4-6
Jan: 6-5-2
2017-18
Oct: 8-3-0
Nov: 7-5-1
Dec: 11-1-1
Jan: 7-3-2
2018-19
Oct: 5-6-1
Nov: 9-6-0
Dec: 9-3-3
Jan: 6-4-0
2021-22
Oct: 5-2-2
Nov: 0-0-1

Aside from Vegas' hot start, Gallant's team's start off around .500 then take off after Thanksgiving. I'd say we aren't as doomed as other say.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Mind you, the Blueshirts had very little definition the first 20, 30, maybe even 40 games under Alain Vigneault when he replaced John Tortorella in 2013-14 while the team transitioned from Black-and-Blueshirt hockey to what became a whole lot of east-west accompanied by a whole of lot success. (Psst: Henrik Lundqvist.)

So it is still early in this transition. And, yes, the record is 6-2-2, even if built primarily on Psst: Igor Shesterkin. The goalie is, after all, part of the team. The Sabres of the ’90s didn’t spend their time apologizing for having Dominik Hasek. The Tortorella and Vigneault Rangers sure didn’t apologize for having Lundqvist.


Rangers have no chance if top stars keep playing like this

Outside of the Leafs and Calgary games and I missed some games Igor's been great but didn't have to make a million amazing saves. I don't know why hockey is the only sport where fans completely disregard the performance of a particular player. Then they say that goalie is not that important of a position so you shouldn't pay big bucks for it.

 

[EdJovanovski]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Reaves turned into a scoring machine there lol.

I definitely want to see Jones and Nils swap for now. I would drop Laf or Kakko to the 4th line for one game and reward Hunt. Put some pressure on these guys.

If it weren’t for the handedness problem since he’s a righty I actually think he’d be excellent on the PP. should give him some looks on PP2 causing havoc in front of the net

 

[CLW]

I'm seeing Gallant make a difference in some areas. We're certainly physical in a more constructive way and doing the stupid tough guy shit less. That said, there hasn't been a buy-in yet on a team identity offensively, and I think this is something that has kind of festered with this organization across multiple coaches.

Not saying Gallant can't change it, but he has some work ahead of him.

Yup.

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

Someone can make an argument for sending Miller down but only if they want to send Nils, Kakko, Laf and Chytil down with him

 

[SnowblindNYR]

2014-15
Oct: 3-2-3
Nov: 6-4-3
Dec: 7-4-3
Jan: 5-6-1
2015-16
Oct: 5-4-2
Nov: 5-5-2
Dec: 11-3
Jan: 8-3-1
2016-17
Oct: 4-4-1
Nov: 7-6-1 (fired)
Dec: 5-4-6
Jan: 6-5-2
2017-18
Oct: 8-3-0
Nov: 7-5-1
Dec: 11-1-1
Jan: 7-3-2
2018-19
Oct: 5-6-1
Nov: 9-6-0
Dec: 9-3-3
Jan: 6-4-0
2021-22
Oct: 5-2-2
Nov: 0-0-1

Aside from Vegas' hot start, Gallant's team's start off around .500 then take off after Thanksgiving. I'd say we aren't as doomed as other say.

You gave us an extra OT loss.

 

[TheDirtyH]

I'm seeing Gallant make a difference in some areas. We're certainly physical in a more constructive way and doing the stupid tough guy shit less. That said, there hasn't been a buy-in yet on a team identity offensively, and I think this is something that has kind of festered with this organization across multiple coaches.

Not saying Gallant can't change it, but he has some work ahead of him.

We definitely had the opposite under AV. Forwards excelled here under him that had otherwise stumbled. Miller and Kreider came up under him, Nash had a career year, Zuccarello, Brassard, Pouliot, Dorsett, Carrillo, Grabner,

 

[Machinehead]

We definitely had the opposite under AV. Forwards excelled here under him that had otherwise stumbled. Miller and Kreider came up under him, Nash had a career year, Zuccarello, Brassard, Pouliot, Dorsett, Carrillo, Grabner,

This is very true.

Although I will say this, AV had certain matchups where the team couldn't do a f***ing thing offensively. It really reared its head in a seven game series. That's certainly something that's been a pattern. Even worse under Quinn and it describes almost every game so far this year.

But the fact that forwards did excel under AV in the big picture means that it probably is fixable with a different approach behind the bench. And I sound like a broken record but it's true -- ten games is barely a sniff for Gallant to put an impression on the team.

 

[JohnC]

I have PTSD nightmares of those AV 2nd periods where the long change would come head to head with his man defense system and kick its teeth in.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

This is very true.

Although I will say this, AV had certain matchups where the team couldn't do a f***ing thing offensively. It really reared its head in a seven game series. That's certainly something that's been a pattern. Even worse under Quinn and it describes almost every game so far this year.

But the fact that forwards did excel under AV in the big picture means that it probably is fixable with a different approach behind the bench. And I sound like a broken record but it's true -- ten games is barely a sniff for Gallant to put an impression on the team.

Ten games is plenty, everyone pretends that these players can't learn a system in a training camp, especially one thats basically the same one that Quinn used since he got here. The problem was never the coach it was the fact that this teams star players are east west players and Quinn and Gallant prefer a north south system, its why this team went out and got Blais, Goodrow and Hunt, and keep Rooney and Mckegg around because they suit the system. Nothing has changed because the system hasn't changed, and neither have the star players within it. If Gallant continues to try and use his top 6 like the bottom 6 he'll have the same result as Quinn, i feel he will adjust because he's a smart coach, only time will tell.

 

[aufheben]

Buckle up boys and girls.

Edit: LMAO @SnowblindNYR do not even start about Igor, my man.

 

[egelband]

He couldn't have shot between 2 defenders. I thought it was a nice move in close quarters. Just didn't work out.

Yep. It was risky but that ok. The other two need to be ready to sprint back when they see KAM go for it.