Post-Game Talk: Rangers at Islanders 10/29/13

[Ola]

Talbot is so calm in net it's great to see. Hope he keeps it up but positionally he is solid.

I really want to point out that I am impressed with Talbot.

I've seen him for quite long time now, and every time when I've seen him before I've been like, sure he can be composed at times but he does not have any elite talent really. Definitely thinking that I had a hard time seing him ever getting close to the NHL.

On top of that, I've been frustrated with the fact that we have Benoit A and never really given him anything to work with. We used to have a few of the better goalies not in the NHL in our system (Labarbarera, Labbe, Valley and so forth), but lately we have -- IMHO -- had more of 2nd tier guys.

But he has done a great job so far. And I mean, it might look easy -- but it definitely is not easy. The tough saves can be made by 500 goalies in the world. The breakaways can be saved by 500 goalies in the world. But there is not 75 goalies in the world who can step into a NHL game and stay with the pace, never loose their position, ie "play their game". Normally you can take a very talented goalie from say the Swedish Hockey League and when put in his first NHL game you will tell instantly that that guy got some work to do because the pace is so fast that it takes alot for him to "stand on his feet square between the pipes" in all situations that arise over 60 minutes. Benny A has definitely done a great job with Talbot.

Its a really small sample, but its impressing nontheless.

 

[NHRangerfan]

Kreider started playing much betterr at teh end of training camp then i Hartford and it has carried over bigtime. i think Torts made him so nervous that he was afraid of making mistakes, Now all that nervousness is gone and his confidence is 10 times greater than what is was when he first debuted. This kid has rare skills and frame so it was just a matter of time until he put it all together

Pat "Stop Coaching" Leonard has an article about CK last week, most of the quotes were from Richards IIRC, they worked out together over the summer and how CK was trying to do too much and wound up doing nothing, he has calmed down, and simplified his game and it's apparent in his improved play.

 

[alkurtz]

One of my major complaints with this team is how slow we were, especially in a league that is speed dominant.

Now, with CK playing regularly and Hags back (plus perhaps Boyle and Pyatt on the 4th line), while we are not a fast team, we are much, much faster than we were; an absolutely positive sign.

 

[NHRangerfan]

Great win.

But looking at the score-sheet noticed that the Boyle, Pyatt, and Dorsett line were all -2.

And that's why +/- as a stat in a vacuum isn't a good thing to do...goal 1 was a bounce over Staal's stick at the O Blue line...goal 2 was a deflection off of Girardi's head...none of the forwards had any responsibility in the goals against.

 

[TheTakedown]

Pyatt and MDZ are the worst on the roster... I'm not sure about MDZ, because it's possible he isn't being utilized properly...

Pyatt on the other hand.... Took 2 noticable shots and landed 2 minorly noticable hits... Beyond that, I started hearing his name and seeing him less and less on the ice, which means AV may possibly start cutting his ice time. he is WAY too slow

 

[Ola]

IMO I think JT Miller has the potential to become a very similar player to Brandon Dubinsky. I see a lot of similarities in their games.

Its kind of hard to put words on, but JT Miller, like say Stepan, got an ability that is kind of hard to put a finger on. I'd call it like "center smarts" in lack of better terminology, without him even being a center...

Dubinsky never had that.

I think it comes down to a general awareness of more aspects than wingers and many not-that-complete centers don't acknowledge (they can be 4th line centers without much else or elite point getters). The winger usually like "consider" where the D's he is going up against are on the ice, especially the one on his side of the ice, and the puck, where is it and when can he get it. But the center got so many more options on where to position himself on the ice that he is just relating to so many more parameters.

Stepan for sure got these things pinned down, it will never like stand out but it shows greatly on the bottom line. Miller got alot of that smarts, and I think that that if anything gives him a bit higher potential than Dubinsky.

 

[Vidic15*]

Boyle and Pyatt slow this team down. When Nash and Callahan return, it is time for Sather to make some moves to improve the bottom six. MDZ is atrocious. He needs a change of scenery.

 

[silverfish]

Miller is so ****ing overrated on this board.

He should be next guy gone when Cally/Nash come back. Keep Mashinter around to sit in the press box.

 

[NYR Viper]

Miller is so ****ing overrated on this board.

He should be next guy gone when Cally/Nash come back. Keep Mashinter around to sit in the press box.

What? He uses his size well, he makes good passes and is able to make moves down low. He is a little rough around the edges but he has been pretty good

 

[silverfish]

What? He uses his size well, he makes good passes and is able to make moves down low. He is a little rough around the edges but he has been pretty good

He's shown flashes, that's it. He hasn't been able to show a single bit of scoring touch at the NHL level though. I feel comparing him to Dubinsky is a little out there right now.

I hope nothing more than to eat crow one day on my Miller bashing, really, but I see more of Boyle in him than Dubinsky.

33 NHL games and he has scored in one of them.

Does he use his size well? Sure he does. Does he appear fearless at the NHL level? You bet. All good things for a young player for sure. I'm just not seeing the finish that makes a career projection to be a 40-50 point guy there yet. I'm not as high on him as others around here.

And I hope this doesn't read as me singling out JT here. Obviously there are a few guys on this roster who aren't holding their own offensively. JT just happens to be one of them. I think he needs way more seasoning at the AHL level.

 

[DudMan28]

He's shown flashes, that's it. He hasn't been able to show a single bit of scoring touch at the NHL level though. I feel comparing him to Dubinsky is a little out there right now.

I hope nothing more than to eat crow one day on my Miller bashing, really, but I see more of Boyle in him than Dubinsky.

33 NHL games and he has scored in one of them.

Does he use his size well? Sure he does. Does he appear fearless at the NHL level? You bet. All good things for a young player for sure. I'm just not seeing the finish that makes a career projection to be a 40-50 point guy there yet. I'm not as high on him as others around here.

And I hope this doesn't read as me singling out JT here. Obviously there are a few guys on this roster who aren't holding their own offensively. JT just happens to be one of them. I think he needs way more seasoning at the AHL level.

More Boyle than Dubinsky? The kid is a 20 year old who has created many scoring chances the past few games and simply put, got robbed. People seem to forget the other teams has an NHL goaltender. He plays with an edge and isnt afraid to shoot. He might not have the physical gifts that Kreider has, but he'll be better than Dubinsky.

 

[silverfish]

More Boyle than Dubinsky? The kid is a 20 year old who has created many scoring chances the past few games and simply put, got robbed. People seem to forget the other teams has an NHL goaltender. He plays with an edge and isnt afraid to shoot. He might not have the physical gifts that Kreider has, but he'll be better than Dubinsky.

Oh ****. Totally forgot!

Dubi has 8 points in 11 this season. Had 20 in 29 last season, and is a main piece in Columbus. I find it so hard to believe you can say that with such confidence.

Dubi had 40 points in his rookie season.

"But he was playing with Jagr!"

Yeah, because he earned that right.

When JT puts up 54 points, and over 100 PIMs playing an effective power forward role, let's talk then.

 

[GbgRanger]

Speaking of JOhn Moore, dude needs to occasionally back off when he's trying to go all offensive defenseman

While it was 4 on 4 last night, he took the puck deep into the offensive zone, pulled up along the boards, dumped it to his teammate, and then skated hard to the net...which is fine except no one was covering for him and it was obvious that both forwards were in deep around the net. The Rangers almost gave up a scoring chance the other way (or maybe they did I can't quite remember) because they lost the puck in the offensive zone and there was only one D back

Just saying that maybe it's not the greatest idea to crash the net as a D during a 4 on 4 when you're passing the puck to one forward that's already deep and the other forward is in front of the net

I remember that one. It was definitely Zucc who was supposed to cover for him in that situation.

 

[Graves94]

Playing in the top 6 has zero to do with those things I just mentioned.

It's something called confidence. The coach brought him up and put him on the top line, which I'm sure motivated him to do all the things you correctly mention he's doing. I'm sure he wouldn't look half as good playing with Pyatt and Moore on the fourth line...

 

[xander]

He's shown flashes, that's it. He hasn't been able to show a single bit of scoring touch at the NHL level though. I feel comparing him to Dubinsky is a little out there right now.

I hope nothing more than to eat crow one day on my Miller bashing, really, but I see more of Boyle in him than Dubinsky.

33 NHL games and he has scored in one of them.

Does he use his size well? Sure he does. Does he appear fearless at the NHL level? You bet. All good things for a young player for sure. I'm just not seeing the finish that makes a career projection to be a 40-50 point guy there yet. I'm not as high on him as others around here.

And I hope this doesn't read as me singling out JT here. Obviously there are a few guys on this roster who aren't holding their own offensively. JT just happens to be one of them. I think he needs way more seasoning at the AHL level.

Dubinsky was just starting his AHL career when he was Miller's age. As happened with Kreider, folks forget about the age of these kids. The Rangers during the 00ts were more conservative with call ups. Dubinsky came up at 21, and that was considered aggressive. I think Callahan was 23. Miller showed a scoring touch in the AHL as a 19 year old last year, and he's certainly shown flashes of it in the NHL. Consistency is going to take some time, he's 20.

 

[Levitate]

I remember that one. It was definitely Zucc who was supposed to cover for him in that situation.

eh, yeah Zucc probably should have but Moore also pulled up along the boards instead of going all the way down so it wasn't super clear cut there. I think Moore forgot they were 4 on 4 to be honest

 

[silverfish]

Dubinsky was just starting his AHL career when he was Miller's age. As happened with Kreider, folks forget about the age of these kids. The Rangers during the 00ts were more conservative with call ups. Dubinsky came up at 21, and that was considered aggressive. I think Callahan was 23. Miller showed a scoring touch in the AHL as a 19 year old last year, and he's certainly shown flashes of it in the NHL. Consistency is going to take some time, he's 20.

A fair point. Goes to show even further that comparisons to successful NHL players are out of their element right now.

 

[Pizza]

Kreider is blessed in that if he does what he should do his God given gifts make getting his chances a near certainty. Few players are that fortunate.

Takes time, patience and the players participation. I think that was lacking last year. It's happening now. All I care about.

 

[New York RKY]

I REALLY enjoyed watching the Kreider-Stepan-Zuccarello line. They created some really nice chances and drew a penalty or two.

Hagelin was really good as well. I can see some of the pieces falling back into place when Callahan and Nash are ready to come back.

 

[GAGLine]

Dubinsky was just starting his AHL career when he was Miller's age. As happened with Kreider, folks forget about the age of these kids. The Rangers during the 00ts were more conservative with call ups. Dubinsky came up at 21, and that was considered aggressive. I think Callahan was 23. Miller showed a scoring touch in the AHL as a 19 year old last year, and he's certainly shown flashes of it in the NHL. Consistency is going to take some time, he's 20.

Truth. Callahan wasn't even drafted as an 18 year old. He was eligible for the draft in 2003, but didn't get selected until the 4th round in 2004. He then had a down year and the Rangers offered him an AHL contract. He chose to play an overage year in juniors instead and put up 52 goals and 84 points in 62 games.

At the age Miller is at now, Callahan was playing in juniors without an NHL contract. Now Callahan is a consistent 25+ goal scorer and the heart and soul of this team. The very fact that Miller is good enough to play on the Rangers at this age is a testament to his abilities. He tore it up in limited time in the AHL this year (4 goals in 3 games). It's only a matter of time before he start scoring in the NHL.

 

[Vidic15*]

Kreider is blessed in that if he does what he should do his God given gifts make getting his chances a near certainty. Few players are that fortunate.

Takes time, patience and the players participation. I think that was lacking last year. It's happening now. All I care about.

He's an absolute rock in front of net. With his size and leg strength, he's impossible to move.

 

[DudMan28]

Oh ****. Totally forgot

Dubi has 8 points in 11 this season. Had 20 in 29 last season, and is a main piece in Columbus. I find it so hard to believe you can say that with such confidence.

Dubi had 40 points in his rookie season.

"But he was playing with Jagr!"

Yeah, because he earned that right.

When JT puts up 54 points, and over 100 PIMs playing an effective power forward role, let's talk then.

Seems like you forgot. Can't really say he lacks scoring touch when he has played about 35 games in the NHL as a 19/20 year old. Pretty small sample size if you ask me. Sure Dubi had a great rookie season (as a 21 year old). But like you mentioned he played with Jagr and also got PP time. Give JT that same situation next year as a 21 year old and I am fairly certain he would hit 40 points.

Maybe I am a little too confident JT will be better than Dubi because I like the way JT plays the game. He might never reach 54 points or 100 PIMS but he will still be an effective player. What I am confident of is that he will end up like Dubi, and not Boyle.

 

[Graves94]

Truth. Callahan wasn't even drafted as an 18 year old. He was eligible for the draft in 2003, but didn't get selected until the 4th round in 2004. He then had a down year and the Rangers offered him an AHL contract. He chose to play an overage year in juniors instead and put up 52 goals and 84 points in 62 games.

At the age Miller is at now, Callahan was playing in juniors without an NHL contract. Now Callahan is a consistent 25+ goal scorer and the heart and soul of this team. The very fact that Miller is good enough to play on the Rangers at this age is a testament to his abilities. He tore it up in limited time in the AHL this year (4 goals in 3 games). It's only a matter of time before he start scoring in the NHL.

100% spot on with the above!
What will be the benefit of Miller going to the AHL? He's defensively responsible (he must be more cautious in the d-zone (make the safer plays) making sure he gets the puck out quicker), uses his size, which this team sorely needs, and has shown he can chip in offensively. What I mean is, there are no glaring holes in his game that the AHL will fix, and will transfer it to the NHL.

 

[silverfish]

Seems like you forgot. Can't really say he lacks scoring touch when he has played about 35 games in the NHL as a 19/20 year old. Pretty small sample size if you ask me. Sure Dubi had a great rookie season (as a 21 year old). But like you mentioned he played with Jagr and also got PP time. Give JT that same situation next year as a 21 year old and I am fairly certain he would hit 40 points.

Maybe I am a little too confident JT will be better than Dubi because I like the way JT plays the game. He might never reach 54 points or 100 PIMS but he will still be an effective player. What I am confident of is that he will end up like Dubi, and not Boyle.

I just don't see what makes you so 'fairly certain'. I haven't seen it yet.

100% spot on with the above!
What will be the benefit of Miller going to the AHL? He's defensively responsible (he must be more cautious in the d-zone (make the safer plays) making sure he gets the puck out quicker), uses his size, which this team sorely needs, and has shown he can chip in offensively. What I mean is, there are no glaring holes in his game that the AHL will fix, and will transfer it to the NHL.

He has? When? That ONE time?

Consistent top-line minutes at the AHL level, and playing in all situations will be a great thing for JT Miller. He's not ready for full NHL time. He does some things well, but not at a consistent NHL capability.

When/if (ugh, if) this team is fully-healthy, there is no reason to have Miller here as a 3rd/4th line tweener when he can be in the A as a top line player getting 22 minutes a night.

 

[Graves94]

I just don't see what makes you so 'fairly certain'. I haven't seen it yet.



He has? When? That ONE time?

Consistent top-line minutes at the AHL level, and playing in all situations will be a great thing for JT Miller. He's not ready for full NHL time. He does some things well, but not at a consistent NHL capability.

When/if (ugh, if) this team is fully-healthy, there is no reason to have Miller here as a 3rd/4th line tweener when he can be in the A as a top line player getting 22 minutes a night.

Let me ask you this, who would you rather keep when everyone is healthy. Miller or Pyatt? Why??