Post-Game Talk: Rangers at Islanders 10/29/13

[JohnC]

focuses on things like meaningless puck possession stats and zone starts which although not meaningless

What

 

[Thirty One]

Your "evidence" focuses on things like meaningless puck possession stats and zone starts which although not meaningless tell only part of a story.

So are they meaningless, or....?

But you dismiss other stats like +- and how well the team performs when he's out of the lineup (last year the team did very well when he was benched I recall.)

Both those stats are severely limited in sample size (among other things).

The Rangers were 3-0 last season in the stretch where Torts held Boyle out the lineup. Humans are really good at deriving meaning and patterns where one may or may not exist. This one fits in with your narrative so you use it. You don't place any value in his playoff scoring, for example, because it doesn't, even though that's a much bigger sample.

Is there a stat for flubbed passes, or inability to accept a good pass, or time spent laying on the ice, or inability to get to a loose puck due to poor turning skills, or failure to identify an open teammate in a prime scoring position?

No, but those will be reflected in meaningful/meaningless stats to the extent that they affect the play.

I do not look to make an empirical argument that Brian Boyle is a severely flawed hockey player that should PK and little else. That is obvious to me; and hence my opinion. Since it is not obvious to you, you have a different opinion. This board is littered with this very situation; and that is ok.

The stats you present only quantify a sliver of his existence on the ice and are therefore only marginally useful; even if you buy into those data points as important. So, continue to try and quantify BB's value and I will continue to tell it like I see it.

Yes, and that's your prerogative.

I just find it extremely strange that you think your eyes can tell you everything you need to know about something as complex as player value, when they were so far off base on much simpler aspects.

To me, that's like me driving across the street to the grocery store (which I do), but still thinking I can run a marathon.