Speculation: Rangers and Ducks talking trade?

[Shootertooter]

Give it a rest man. Jesus you are so out of touch.

Yup, I second that.

In order to sign Lindholm, the Ducks can't take on cap, why can't you seem to understand that Bern?

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Did we get Fowler yet? Is he in the lineup tonight vs the Wings?

No but Ken Holland was at the Ducks Devils game, So that means Detroit has strong interest in bringing Detroit boy Cam Fowler home.

 

[Ducks in a row]

And yet he can't find one partner he works with. Not one. And it's always the other guy's fault.

And Ben Lovejoy is a very good possession player, BTW.

Fowler has been having to carry defenseman who aren't that good because Fowler is a good defenseman and has been trusted to help make a not so good defenseman not be involved in having a terrible defense pair that needs heavy sheltering.

Fowler -
Lindholm -
- Vatanen

With defense pairs like that we have had good teams before because we didn't have a 3rd defense pair that totally sucked. Having Fowler play in the situation he had might not look good on the advanced stat sheet but it resulted in having a good team. Advanced stats are not so damn important as some people want others to believe.

According to the hero charts Lovejoy > Fowler but in reality Fowler > Lovejoy and Fowler was carrying Lovejoy when they had played together but of course someone would have to of actually watched them play a lot to of know that.

Lovejoy does well when his mins are more limited and playing in easier situations. Imagine if Lovejoy was playing 22+ mins a game with a 3rd pair quality defense partner while facing other teams scorers and getting more defensive zone starts.

if it was JT Miller for Vats would have been done LONG AGO

JT goes nowhere unless a package and Hanifin returned

the deal is either

a) Zuc for Vats, straight up
with an optional side deal of various prospects/cap dumps etc as a back scratch to help Ducks get cap relief, assuming not a massive, but a decent bribe to Rangers to do so.

or

b) something with a core of McDonagh for Theodore AND Montour
small adds
leaves room for separate direct deal for Zuc
or 3 way
or Ducks, w/McD upgrade on Fowler, to shop Fowler on the open market

Why do you keep posting bad trades involving the Ducks? You need to take a look at the Ducks situation before hand which your clearly not doing. Please stop already.

 

[wraparound]

No but Ken Holland was at the Ducks Devils game, So that means Detroit has strong interest in bringing Detroit boy Cam Fowler home.

Larkin, please

 

[Markus078]

Larkin, please

Would be too nice.

 

[Spazkat]

According to the hero charts Lovejoy > Fowler but in reality Fowler > Lovejoy and Fowler was carrying Lovejoy when they had played together but of course someone would have to of actually watched them play a lot to of know that.

Lovejoy does well when his mins are more limited and playing in easier situations. Imagine if Lovejoy was playing 22+ mins a game with a 3rd pair quality defense partner while facing other teams scorers and getting more defensive zone starts.

This is actually probably the exact mistake the Pens made when they traded Despres for Lovejoy. They assumed that Lovejoy and Scuderi were the ones carrying their respective pairs and traded based on that. Oops

Ask Pens fans what they thought about Lovejoy when they had a few injuries and he got bumped too far up the lineup with increased minutes. Hooo boy that was ugly.

 

[bernmeister]

Give it a rest man. Jesus you are so out of touch.

Not at all

Yup, I second that.
In order to sign Lindholm, the Ducks can't take on cap, why can't you seem to understand that Bern?

I proposed 2 deals
a main deal straight up, Zuc for Vats
that is ballpark cap neutral
that is ballpark fair, scoring W for RD [not quibbling over who is better]
I then specifically said, if the Ducks offer the Rangers the right kind of bribe, we should be open to accommodate on taking some reasonable amount of cap offer their hands.
What is not to understand?
That Ducks want the less expensive, younger, more versatile JT Miller with higher upside?
You can't have him.
And that is straight up, forget about these ridiculous adds.

....Why do you keep posting bad trades involving the Ducks? You need to take a look at the Ducks situation before hand which your clearly not doing. Please stop already.

I have looked at the Ducks situation
the offer of Zuc for Vats is ballpark a fair wash as to value
that WOULD actually help you, not as to cap, but as to the complaints of needing a W.

Whether or not we do Zuc for Vats, I am amenable to discussing something as to precious cap space, if you make it worth my while. But NY is not taking a loss on value just to scratch your back, or anyone else's.

Finally, I don't mean to be impolite here to anybody, but I'm seeing a lot of inflexibility by posters of many clubs, and Ducks are are case in point proving the example. Rangers are not here to wipe anyone's -- ahem, gluteus maximus.

If a great deal exists that can do it all, improve, get younger, upgrade value, save on cap, avoid expansion draft issues by using ELC - terrific! I highly doubt such a deal can simultaneously be a hockey trade for both sides.

Barring such a miracle, either compromise on one deal or see if we can do multiple deals [e.g., a primary deal for value and a side deal for for cap] to address all issues and make everybody perhaps not completely happy, but as happy as possible.

I make no apology for not giving in to demands that not only want Miller who most do not want traded barring overpayment, but then suffer further that he is undervalued vs the returns.

GORTON surely agrees or it would have been done by now.
No Miller
No

I remain available for something creative...

 

[Trxjw]

If it came down to it, would Ducks fans rather hang on to Fowler and instead deal Stoner with a couple of good futures, say Montour and a forward prospect for a young top-six forward?

 

[Ducks in a row]

I have looked at the Ducks situation
the offer of Zuc for Vats is ballpark a fair wash as to value
that WOULD actually help you, not as to cap, but as to the complaints of needing a W.

Whether or not we do Zuc for Vats, I am amenable to discussing something as to precious cap space, if you make it worth my while. But NY is not taking a loss on value just to scratch your back, or anyone else's.

Finally, I don't mean to be impolite here to anybody, but I'm seeing a lot of inflexibility by posters of many clubs, and Ducks are are case in point proving the example. Rangers are not here to wipe anyone's -- ahem, gluteus maximus.

If a great deal exists that can do it all, improve, get younger, upgrade value, save on cap, avoid expansion draft issues by using ELC - terrific! I highly doubt such a deal can simultaneously be a hockey trade for both sides.

Barring such a miracle, either compromise on one deal or see if we can do multiple deals [e.g., a primary deal for value and a side deal for for cap] to address all issues and make everybody perhaps not completely happy, but as happy as possible.

I make no apology for not giving in to demands that not only want Miller who most do not want traded barring overpayment, but then suffer further that he is undervalued vs the returns.

GORTON surely agrees or it would have been done by now.
No Miller
No

I remain available for something creative...

We are not trading Vatanen so soon after re-signing him especially for Zuccarello who does little to help our cap situation.

We also are not going to trade Theodore and Montour (who are cost controlled for a while) for McDonagh (who is UFA after 3 years) with Fowler traded away in a 3 way deal that doesn't help our cap situation that makes it worse and we lose two players who are cost controlled don't need to be protected for expansion and can be used in a trade to help with our cap situation if it really needs to come to that.

 

[Gliff]

If it came down to it, would Ducks fans rather hang on to Fowler and instead deal Stoner with a couple of good futures, say Montour and a forward prospect for a young top-six forward?

IMO keep fowler.
He has consistently been the Ducks best defender for a few years now. His contract makes him a steal. We shouldnt be dealing good contracts to keep our bad contracts.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Larkin, please

No way for Fowler, Maybe close to Lindholm with Detroit adding some.

 

[Trxjw]

IMO keep fowler.
He has consistently been the Ducks best defender for a few years now. His contract makes him a steal. We shouldnt be dealing good contracts to keep our bad contracts.

At that point they'd really have to move Stoner with zero cap coming back, right?

 

[WhatTheDuck]

At that point they'd really have to move Stoner with zero cap coming back, right?

Nope we need to free up just over $2M. If we could move Stoner + for a depth player making 1M or less that would work.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Nope we need to free up just over $2M. If we could move Stoner + for a depth player making 1M or less that would work.

Can you show how? Just by what I'm seeing if you only freed up 2 million, where are you getting the remaining 4+ to sign Lindholm?

 

[Trxjw]

Nope we need to free up just over $2M. If we could move Stoner + for a depth player making 1M or less that would work.

I think I remember you saying that the other day, but explained that involved guys on LTIR and burying a lot of contracts, right?

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Can you show how? Just by what I'm seeing if you only freed up 2 million, where are you getting the remaining 4+ to sign Lindholm?

Sending down Larsson, Sorenson and Raymond, LTIR Thompson.

 

[JetsFan815]

The misuse of stats continues.

And yet, so many GM's are reported to want Fowler. Go figure. Clearly, it's because they are stupid, and don't know better.

It absolutely isn't because they actually watch him, regularly, and know him to be a good defenseman.

So you are saying that in your opinion GMs are infallible and can never be wrong?

I find it interesting that Ducks fans think Fowler is as great as they claim yet can't wait to get rid of him. In my opinion, deep down they realize that the statistical arguments about Fowler are valid and want to dump him for value before the NHL gets wiser to it

 

[WhatTheDuck]

I think I remember you saying that the other day, but explained that involved guys on LTIR and burying a lot of contracts, right?

We will need to send down two guys to make way for Rakell and Lindholm regardless.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Sending down Larsson, Sorenson and Raymond, LTIR Thompson.

I think that only works if Lindholm signs for about 5.5 mil.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

So you are saying that in your opinion GMs are infallible and can never be wrong?

I find it interesting that Ducks fans think Fowler is as great as they claim yet can't wait to get rid of him. In my opinion, deep down they realize that the statistical arguments about Fowler are valid and want to dump him for value before the NHL gets wiser to it

How many duck fans have you seen make posts offering him up? Majority of the time it's other teams fans asking for him.

It's not hard to comprehend why he'd be traded tho, he's a Ufa in 2 seasons and we don't know we can afford him, he holds the most value at a position we can replace within the organization. He'll bring back a top6 forward of we choose to move him, which we need in ur forward group.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I think that only works if Lindholm signs for about 5.5 mil.

I think that's around the target amount, granted I think it'll end up around 5.75ish

 

[btlaffin]

So you are saying that in your opinion GMs are infallible and can never be wrong?

I find it interesting that Ducks fans think Fowler is as great as they claim yet can't wait to get rid of him. In my opinion, deep down they realize that the statistical arguments about Fowler are valid and want to dump him for value before the NHL gets wiser to it

Is that seriously the logic that came up with? Wow.

Here's what I see...
Top Priority for Ducks fans is getting Lindholm signed. That comes before everything else.
The Ducks need to make cap space for that to occur.
Ducks fans have come to realize the cost of getting rid of Bieksa/Stoner's contracts would be a high quality, cost controlled, expansion draft protected defensive prospect
The only other logical alternate solution is to move Fowler's contract
The majority of Ducks fans claim Fowler is a solid #2 - great #3 RHPMD
Preferred return would be a young, cost-controlled top 6 fwd
Other fans who don't watch Ducks games point to HERO charts and say Fowler is bad because advanced stats

If the opportunity was there to keep Fowler, Lindholm, Vatanen, Manson, Montour, Theodore, and Depres, Ducks fans would absolutely take it. Unfortunately, the forward depth on the team is pitiful and the impending expansion draft almost guarantees the Ducks would lose one of those players for nothing.

I see no Ducks fans dying to get rid of Fowler. Quite frankly, he has been the Ducks best player so far this season. Also, the majority of these Fowler trade threads aren't even posted by Ducks fans... GMs are inquiring about Fowler. Fans are inquiring about Fowler. But I thought he was terrible... So explain that to me, please.

I mostly see Ducks fans dying to get Lindholm signed. And that's about it.

See, when you actually look at the situation, doesn't it kind of make sense? Kind of like actually watching a player play hockey instead of solely letting advanced stats determine their ability.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I think that's around the target amount, granted I think it'll end up around 5.75ish

He'd be doing Anaheim a huge favor coming in at around that mark. I would think he's closer to the 6.5 mil mark in terms of value but maybe with a 7 or 8 year deal that includes a clause at the tail end of it, it can move the cap number down.

 

[ohcomeonref]

Is that seriously the logic that came up with? Wow.

Here's what I see...
Top Priority for Ducks fans is getting Lindholm signed. That comes before everything else.
The Ducks need to make cap space for that to occur.
Ducks fans have come to realize the cost of getting rid of Bieksa/Stoner's contracts would be a high quality, cost controlled, expansion draft protected defensive prospect
The only other logical alternate solution is to move Fowler's contract
The majority of Ducks fans claim Fowler is a solid #2 - great #3 RHPMD
Preferred return would be a young, cost-controlled top 6 fwd
Other fans who don't watch Ducks games point to HERO charts and say Fowler is bad because advanced stats

If the opportunity was there to keep Fowler, Lindholm, Vatanen, Manson, Montour, Theodore, and Depres, Ducks fans would absolutely take it. Unfortunately, the forward depth on the team is pitiful and the impending expansion draft almost guarantees the Ducks would lose one of those players for nothing.

I see no Ducks fans dying to get rid of Fowler. Quite frankly, he has been the Ducks best player so far this season. I mostly see Ducks fans dying to get Lindholm signed. And that's about it.

See, when you actually look at the situation, doesn't it kind of make sense? Kind of like actually watching a player play hockey instead of solely letting advanced stats determine their ability.

Can we sticky this? The only part that isn't 100% correct is the part about Ducks fans not wanting to get rid of Despres. I think lots of us are ready to dump him.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

He'd be doing Anaheim a huge favor coming in at around that mark. I would think he's closer to the 6.5 mil mark in terms of value but maybe with a 7 or 8 year deal that includes a clause at the tail end of it, it can move the cap number down.

Maybe hard to tell not much information coming out but I hope its over soon and we get him locked up so we can stop seeing all these threads in the trade boards.