Speculation: Rangers and Ducks talking trade?

[Pinkfloyd]

there is still a hard deadline for this: December 1st
If Lindholm isn't signed by then, he can't play for the remainder of the year, and this hurts both the ducks and Lindholm. On top of that, the longer the ducks wait, the more the AAV for this season is going to go up. Ducks only have several hundred thousand $ in cap space to play with, so even an AAV increase of $400k this season can make or break this for them.

Beyond that, The ducks need to sign him in order to start winning games, so yeah, there is definitely a deadline in play here.

Trust me, if the ducks wait, they are going to find themselves paying a FORTUNE to get a team to take on a $3M cap dump in Stoner (which is a small cap dump considering the cap ceiling--about 4%). They're going to find themselves in a VERY similar situation to the blackhawks where they're going to have to cut bait with a very good ROSTER player (not just a prospect) in order to make space for Lindholm--nobody is taking on Stoner as a favor.

There was also a SERIOUS lack of foresight on the ducks part. They could have had this space available without paying the price of a promising prospect for it if they had just bought out Bieksa this offseason.

https://www.capfriendly.com/buyout_calculator/kevin-bieksa

For Trouba, different situation, but same end result. It affects the team and the player (and the respective values of each component).

Everyone knows about the deadline. It's not going to force their hands considering they're only about 700k apart according to Friedman. For them to make room for 5.5 mil is not going to require them to trade Fowler for scraps. They have options.

I don't disagree that there was a serious lack of foresight on the Ducks part. They made a huge mistake re-signing Bieksa before he even played for them. Hell, they made a mistake trading for him in the first place with the contract he had and what he wanted.

All it's going to take to get Lindholm in at 5.5 mil is assigning Larsson back to Frolunda, assigning Sorensen to San Diego, and potentially LTIR'ing Despres and Thompson to buy them time if there isn't a deal that is sufficient for them.

 

[Sojourn]

5 weeks is not a long time, and even then, the longer you wait, the more Lindholm's AAV is going to go up this year, and the less and less relevant the ducks will be in the standings.

that 1-3-1 start with a -4 GD though...

Where in the world do you get his average going up? A player's salary average doesn't go up when he plays less games.

Anaheim got off to a worse start last season. Your attempt to make us feel this is desperate falls short. 5 weeks actually is a pretty long time, if you consider that negotiations aren't starting just now. They are close in their numbers.

 

[TheTakedown]

Everyone knows about the deadline. It's not going to force their hands considering they're only about 700k apart according to Friedman. For them to make room for 5.5 mil is not going to require them to trade Fowler for scraps. They have options.

I don't disagree that there was a serious lack of foresight on the Ducks part. They made a huge mistake re-signing Bieksa before he even played for them. Hell, they made a mistake trading for him in the first place with the contract he had and what he wanted.

All it's going to take to get Lindholm in at 5.5 mil is assigning Larsson back to Frolunda, assigning Sorensen to San Diego, and potentially LTIR'ing Despres and Thompson to buy them time if there isn't a deal that is sufficient for them.

I'll agree with the first part of your post, that's all true.

the problem is the bold. What if they can't LTIR despres? What if he is ready sooner than expected? His injury isn't supposed to be long term (though there is no time table but that could just be head games the ducks are playing)

 

[TheTakedown]

Where in the world do you get his average going up? A player's salary average doesn't go up when he plays less games.

Anaheim got off to a worse start last season. Your attempt to make us feel this is desperate falls short. 5 weeks actually is a pretty long time, if you consider that negotiations aren't starting just now. They are close in their numbers.

See here: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=123431023&postcount=541

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/insider-trading-lindholm-s-holdout-and-fleury-s-future~976840

The AAV for the 2016-17 season ONLY goes up about $30k every day that Lindholm isn't signed.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

5 weeks is not a long time, and even then, the longer you wait, the more Lindholm's AAV is going to go up this year, and the less and less relevant the ducks will be in the standings.

that 1-3-1 start with a -4 GD though...

NOT A -4 GD!


Its an offensive problem not a defensive problem, Rakell coming back will help that. we started 1-7-1 last year and I think had a total of 10 goals in our first 10 games, and ended up winning the pacific... I don't think wee are really that worried.

 

[Sojourn]

I'll agree with the first part of your post, that's all true.

the problem is the bold. What if they can't LTIR despres? What if he is ready sooner than expected? His injury isn't supposed to be long term (though there is no time table but that could just be head games the ducks are playing)

His injury is reported to be concussion symptoms. Considering he had all off-season to shake them, I'm a little less willing to agree with the idea that his injury isn't supposed to be long-term. At this point, it's probably more likely it's long-term than not.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I'll agree with the first part of your post, that's all true.

the problem is the bold. What if they can't LTIR despres? What if he is ready sooner than expected? His injury isn't supposed to be long term (though there is no time table but that could just be head games the ducks are playing)

He has literally been injured sense the Barrie hit, he def hasn't been the same sense the hit, and honestly I don't think he should have been cleared sense that hit.

 

[Exit Dose]

and last season's start was one of the worst in the league, no? It's not hard to be better than that...

In league history.

I think you're missing the point, though. In spite of one of the worst starts in the modern era, the team still went on to lead the Pacific Division. If you're expecting the first five games to set off a panic, you are in for some disappointment.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

In league history.

I think you're missing the point, though. In spite of one of the worst starts in the modern era, the team still went on to lead the Pacific Division. If you're expecting the first five games to set off a panic, you are in for some disappointment.

Our 2nd line doesn't even start playing till black Friday

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I'll agree with the first part of your post, that's all true.

the problem is the bold. What if they can't LTIR despres? What if he is ready sooner than expected? His injury isn't supposed to be long term (though there is no time table but that could just be head games the ducks are playing)

If they can't LTIR Despres, they can send down Stoner and another forward or d-man at 900k or higher and still be fine.

 

[Sojourn]

See here: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=123431023&postcount=541

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/insider-trading-lindholm-s-holdout-and-fleury-s-future~976840

The AAV for the 2016-17 season ONLY goes up about $30k every day that Lindholm isn't signed.

Huh. An RFA penalty. Meh, whatever. Doesn't force the issue. It sucks, but it doesn't mean Anaheim has to take pennies on the dollar for good players. As has already been noted, they can create most of their space through LTIR, and buy themselves even more time.

Edit: and before you get on me about that, we're already into the season. He's already going to have a higher cap hit, as a result. The penalty is already there. Forcing something will just make things worse. The negotiations need to continue, regardless.

 

[TheTakedown]

Huh. An RFA penalty. Meh, whatever. Doesn't force the issue. It sucks, but it doesn't mean Anaheim has to take pennies on the dollar for good players. As has already been noted, they can create most of their space through LTIR, and buy themselves even more time.

Edit: and before you get on me about that, we're already into the season. He's already going to have a higher cap hit, as a result. The penalty is already there. Forcing something will just make things worse. The negotiations need to continue, regardless.

It doesn't force the issue, but let's not make it look like the Ducks have $2M in cap space to play with here. They get some relief from sending Stoner down but still... there isn't a lot to play with here

Also, there are 50 days between the start of the season (October 12th) and the RFA Signing deadline (December 1st)... $30k/day for 50 days is $1.5M...

That means Lindholm's $5.5M AAV contract could be up to $7M for just this year, which means they need to clear out about $4-6M in cap space right now

There is NO time to wait any more. The ducks are bent over a barrel, and the longer they wait, the more difficult this gets

 

[Sojourn]

It doesn't force the issue, but let's not make it look like the Ducks have $2M in cap space to play with here. They get some relief from sending Stoner down but still... there isn't a lot to play with here

Sure, again, if we ignore the LTIR options. Thompson is 1.6. Despres is 3.7. If they are right up against the cap when they go on LTIR, that's 5.3m in extra space over the cap.

Now, that doesn't solve the issues, but it definitely buys them time beyond the 5 weeks you're throwing out.

Edit: you missed my point. The penalty doesn't force the issue because the negotiations are ongoing. There is nothing they can do between now and Lindholm being ready to sign to change that. Anaheim making some foolish move to create space doesn't mean the penalty stops. You realize, that right?

 

[Sojourn]

In case that part needs explaining:

Lindholm's negotiations are separate, but they are still a part of Anaheim's plans. Whether Lindholm is closer to signing or not, the Ducks have games to play. That means they need to actually put together the best roster they can, with the pieces they have, to win those games. It makes zero sense to start cutting away parts of the team to make room for Lindholm if he isn't ready to sign, and it actually could hurt the team a great deal to do that. Not only does that make Anaheim a worse team, but it also strengthen's Lindholm's bargaining position.

Anaheim isn't going to force some stupid trade immediately, because until Lindholm is ready to sign, anything they actually do will only hurt the team's chances now. It's actually far more likely that Murray is also negotiating with other GM's, and there are some plans that can be implemented when Lindholm is ready to sign.

 

[Irishguy42]

All I know is that whenever Lindholm/Ducks are ready to sign, all the moves/news will pretty much happen at once.

 

[bernmeister]

A little ironic coming from the guy who had NYR making 6 or 7 moves to wind up with Pesce don't you think?


The bottom line is this for the Ducks. They are in a bad situation with their cap. They want to sign Lindholm and need to move Fowler or Vatanen.

They have little leverage and time is running out. They aren't going to take salary back so Zuccarello is out unless this becomes a complicated multi player deal.

Miller might be an option if they can move additional salary to the Rangers to clear that.

The Rangers are not going to give up Kreider, Buch, Vesey, Mc D or whomever they covet simply to flip Fowler for a RHD, nor should they consider Fowler at all IMO.....Miller is expendable unfortunately. He is likely the highest quality player that would be in the return. More likely picks and some prospects would suit the Ducks better considering their inability to take back cap.

This is the reality, any major player going to the Ducks would cost major salary and they can't do that. I think they have less than 500K wiggle room.

it is not ironic
I explicitly said and often demonstrate that a few moves are a better comprehensive strategy than trying to force everything into literally one deal

Miller with his versatility and cost control and large upside potential is not being moved.

If ducks don't want two separate deals, or respect the value of McD, fine
no deal

same w/Jets and Trouba

we can ONLY afford long term to move vets now, not young core

Stepan at 4 is less than Zuc 4.5 and i forgot exactly Vatanen but believe it is closer to 5.
it has to be balanced, and it is a playmaker C rather than a sniper W.
but still, he will improve results from his linemates, and you can prob flip him to Wild for Dumba close to straight up

 

[bernmeister]

Please Ducks fans ignore Bernmeister

ignore at your own peril, which is what LMcD takes upon himself

he ignores that Gorton properly held on to Kreider, and will properly hold on to Miller

trade vets
no instant gratification
build

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

All I know is that whenever Lindholm/Ducks are ready to sign, all the moves/news will pretty much happen at once.

Pretty much this



hopefully it comes soon, I cant take any more trade threads from other teams.

 

[Curufinwe]

It would have been nice if that terrible Cam Fowler guy with the bad Corsi I have heard so much about had played last night.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

It would have been nice if that terrible Cam Fowler guy with the bad Corsi I have heard so much about had played last night.

Honestly he's been amazing so far this year.... he looks like the cam we had when he was with lovejoy or beauchmin

 

[Goose of Reason]

Honestly he's been amazing so far this year.... he looks like the cam we had when he was with lovejoy or beauchmin

Better. He's the Cam we had last year before his injuries.