OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: Polanco likes to fish
- Thread starter ColePens
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bathroomSTAAL
The halcyon days
ColePens
RIP Fugu Buffaloed & parabola
By the by - two guys you hated Happ & Blanton have been very pleasant good surprises on this team.
But yes - it's significant when a closer should have a night off twice and has to come in. He needs to at least get one out for Mark.
But yes - it's significant when a closer should have a night off twice and has to come in. He needs to at least get one out for Mark.
NewAgeOutlaw
Belie Dat!
It's okay to admit he sucks. He consistently does this. Yes - i'll give him credit that he found his way for a brief part of the season and it quickly went back downhill. He sucked at the beginning and he sucks now. He's not a MLB relief pitcher.
That doesn't make you a non-Bucco fan. He's had 2 opportunities to give Mark a night off and doesn't even get 1 out. That's not what we need.
And Mark does it again.
If Bastardo is not an mlb reliever than roughly half of the relievers in major league baseball are not mlb relievers. You are being ridiculous.
Complaining about a 6th reliever with an era under 4 is like complaining about an nfl team's 3rd down running back averaging less than 4 yrds per carry. He's not a shutdown guy by any means, but he is not in a shutdown role either.
ColePens
RIP Fugu Buffaloed & parabola
When you role is to clean up games that are past needing a save - don't make your closer work two nights w/o even giving him 1 out. That's exactly what your job is not to do.
He struggled early, went on fire with the rest of the gang, and now is back to normal. There is no doubt in my mind he's insanely replaceable. Hell - a guy like Joe Blanton, who many of you laughed at the Buccos getting, actually has been a nice little surprise. So yes - I think the guy is replaceable.
But I'm not like lighting the world on fire. I was reacting to the guy doing it twice in a span of a week. NAO, for whatever reason, you are the biggest Bucco defender out of nowhere. We get it dude.. you like baseball. Other people are allowed opinions. Jesus man.
He struggled early, went on fire with the rest of the gang, and now is back to normal. There is no doubt in my mind he's insanely replaceable. Hell - a guy like Joe Blanton, who many of you laughed at the Buccos getting, actually has been a nice little surprise. So yes - I think the guy is replaceable.
But I'm not like lighting the world on fire. I was reacting to the guy doing it twice in a span of a week. NAO, for whatever reason, you are the biggest Bucco defender out of nowhere. We get it dude.. you like baseball. Other people are allowed opinions. Jesus man.
NewAgeOutlaw
Belie Dat!
When you role is to clean up games that are past needing a save - don't make your closer work two nights w/o even giving him 1 out. That's exactly what your job is not to do.
He struggled early, went on fire with the rest of the gang, and now is back to normal. There is no doubt in my mind he's insanely replaceable. Hell - a guy like Joe Blanton, who many of you laughed at the Buccos getting, actually has been a nice little surprise. So yes - I think the guy is replaceable.
But I'm not like lighting the world on fire. I was reacting to the guy doing it twice in a span of a week. NAO, for whatever reason, you are the biggest Bucco defender out of nowhere. We get it dude.. you like baseball. Other people are allowed opinions. Jesus man.
Yeah I am fully aware that you guys are entitled to your opinions. As am I. When my opinions contradict the opinions of someone else, it creates a discussion. Isn't that kind of the purpose of a message board? Have I been doing it wrong this whole time? If I disagree with you should I just pretend I agree with you?
And I don't get labelling me a "Bucco defender". I have criticized many Buccos this year. Most notably Ramirez, Mercer and Pedro. People have disagreed with me at times. Does that make those folks "Bucco defenders" as well?
A moderator of a message board calling out a poster for having an on topic discussion, now I've seen it all. Get off your high horse *******.
bathroomSTAAL
The halcyon days
NewAgeOutlaw
Belie Dat!
ColePens
RIP Fugu Buffaloed & parabola
I'm a poster, NAO. Not a mod here when posting during a game GDT style.
I was posting GDT style. If anyone says anything you don't agree with, you try to play the big ole baseball fan. That's why the fans of baseball are near insufferable at times. You can't say anything htey don't agree with! We get it, bud. You are a lifelong baseball fan. Trust me.. we alllll have at least had one argument with you about something. Calm down and understand people are going to ***** when it's a GDT-style thread. And yes.. his only job is to not bring out Mark. Last 2 starts, he hasn't even gotten an out. He's absolutely replaceable. However - do I seriously think it's any reason the Buccos will win or lose?
NO. Not even close. It is just annoying as **** when his sole job is to not make Mark work..... and boom. He does a piss poor job. It's the same when Perron has a bad defensive zone shift. It's the same when Sutter disappears. It's the same when any/all of the role players **** up in their limited minutes. It's a GDT.
clefty
Retrovertigo
Being replaceable kind of comes with the territory of being a reliever, doesn't it? I mean, many of them end up pretty well-traveled by the time their careers have ended, even good ones. So I don't know that being "replaceable" is a particularly meaningful indictment of a bullpen arm.
ColePens
RIP Fugu Buffaloed & parabola
And bare with me, NAO. I'm busy trying to understand why the 70 year old Stinger gets the title shot against Rollins.
NewAgeOutlaw
Belie Dat!
I never realized that being a huge baseball fan was a minus in a thread about baseball. I'm just trying to bring my patience as a fan and my knowledge to provide a different perspective from most posters, who tend to over-react. Yes, arguments happen, but show me a message board where arguments don't happen.
I suppose I will just start whining every time any player makes a bad play like a "good" poster should. I suppose I should never disagree with anybody lest there been any discussion. I will agree with everybody like I apparently should.
I can't do those things though because it would be fake and it would not be me. If you have such a huge problem with an argument here and there and me disagreeing with people on certain topics than so be it. If my knowledge of the sport is such a hinderance to your enjoyment of this thread then I suppose I'll go post somewhere where my knowledge is appreciated instead of criticized.
I suppose I will just start whining every time any player makes a bad play like a "good" poster should. I suppose I should never disagree with anybody lest there been any discussion. I will agree with everybody like I apparently should.
I can't do those things though because it would be fake and it would not be me. If you have such a huge problem with an argument here and there and me disagreeing with people on certain topics than so be it. If my knowledge of the sport is such a hinderance to your enjoyment of this thread then I suppose I'll go post somewhere where my knowledge is appreciated instead of criticized.
ColePens
RIP Fugu Buffaloed & parabola
You use your "huge baseball fandom" as an attempt at instant credibility and come off as if you are always right no matter what. Throwing a frustrated post out there about Bastardo in a GDT format when he made Mark work twice when the game was a non-save situation is not wrong at all. If you want to call it overreacting in the long season - sure. In this long stretch, it'd be damn nice to have our closer get a little rest as we chase a division win.
But like a typical baseball fan, you immediately jump to your crutch (stats) and have to pick/choose which ones to throw in the face of those who watch the game. It's as if traditional baseball fans are offended when others have opinions of the game. Just because I never played the game doesn't mean I haven't been watching since I was a kid.
Just let emotion go during a game. It is a fun way to be a fan. The game is more feel/eye test than a lot of traditional baseball fans will ever believe. All sports are.
But like a typical baseball fan, you immediately jump to your crutch (stats) and have to pick/choose which ones to throw in the face of those who watch the game. It's as if traditional baseball fans are offended when others have opinions of the game. Just because I never played the game doesn't mean I haven't been watching since I was a kid.
Just let emotion go during a game. It is a fun way to be a fan. The game is more feel/eye test than a lot of traditional baseball fans will ever believe. All sports are.
Anyone watching the St. Louis/Arizona game? How the hell does Arizona ever win a game? They simply don't do anything right. VERY poor situational hitting, don't field for **** and bounce weakly into double play after double play.
I though Goldschmidt was supposed to be something. Not so much.
I though Goldschmidt was supposed to be something. Not so much.
NewAgeOutlaw
Belie Dat!
I have no idea what you are talking about at this point Cole. I've never once said anybody else's opinion was wrong. Opinions by definition can never be wrong or right. I may disagree and argue, but I will never say my opinion is right just because I'm a big fan.
Your view of a traditional baseball fan is also wildly skewed. Traditional baseball fans HATE stats just like you. Traditional baseball fans are the biggest supporters of the eye test in all of sports. You seem to have no idea what being a traditional baseball fan means. You are by definition a traditional baseball fan.
If stats are a crutch to me then the eye test is a crutch to you. Bastardo has given up fewer runs than most 6th relievers? Doesn't matter, I've watched his last 2 appearances and my eye test says he sucks. I used era. Is the number of runs a pitcher allows not a good way to measure whether they are a good pitcher or not? Do you just automatically disregard every statistic because you don't like them?
Stats aren't the end all be all. I've said it countless times. I always consider my evaluations of a player and use the statistics to supplement that. You however seem to think the eye test is the end all be all. You disregard all statistics on principal and you probably don't even make an effort to understand the statistics anyway. I've got some bad news: over 162 games the eye test is extremely flawed by itself because it is impossible to remember hundreds of at bats and 50+ innings from 25 or more different players over the course of 6 months. An understanding of statistics is critical to the understanding of baseball itself. You may hate it, but that's the way this sport is.
Your view of a traditional baseball fan is also wildly skewed. Traditional baseball fans HATE stats just like you. Traditional baseball fans are the biggest supporters of the eye test in all of sports. You seem to have no idea what being a traditional baseball fan means. You are by definition a traditional baseball fan.
If stats are a crutch to me then the eye test is a crutch to you. Bastardo has given up fewer runs than most 6th relievers? Doesn't matter, I've watched his last 2 appearances and my eye test says he sucks. I used era. Is the number of runs a pitcher allows not a good way to measure whether they are a good pitcher or not? Do you just automatically disregard every statistic because you don't like them?
Stats aren't the end all be all. I've said it countless times. I always consider my evaluations of a player and use the statistics to supplement that. You however seem to think the eye test is the end all be all. You disregard all statistics on principal and you probably don't even make an effort to understand the statistics anyway. I've got some bad news: over 162 games the eye test is extremely flawed by itself because it is impossible to remember hundreds of at bats and 50+ innings from 25 or more different players over the course of 6 months. An understanding of statistics is critical to the understanding of baseball itself. You may hate it, but that's the way this sport is.
titaniumexpose
LG Pens & Sharks
Winger for Hire
Praise Beebo
I never would have thought Bastardo would bring out such fire here...
He's still better than having Ernesto Frieri, Bryan Morris, Bobby LaFromboise, Stolmy Pimentel, or Deolis Guerra in the pen.
He's still better than having Ernesto Frieri, Bryan Morris, Bobby LaFromboise, Stolmy Pimentel, or Deolis Guerra in the pen.
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ColePens
RIP Fugu Buffaloed & parabola
Lol that's an unfair group to put him in... because those guys are equally turrrible. What about Shawn Chacon? Or are we going to hail Bastardo as our new Grabow? 
And NAO - we are so off topic from the original argument, it's not even funny. I'll stand by my comments towards Bastardo. I was watching the game on my laptop while watching Raw (as I see you were doing similar) and when he did the same thing to Mark twice in 1 week, I reacted like a normal GDT. No different from what we all do in every GDT for the Pens. I'll call him hot garbage for his performance.
And NAO - we are so off topic from the original argument, it's not even funny. I'll stand by my comments towards Bastardo. I was watching the game on my laptop while watching Raw (as I see you were doing similar) and when he did the same thing to Mark twice in 1 week, I reacted like a normal GDT. No different from what we all do in every GDT for the Pens. I'll call him hot garbage for his performance.
Winger for Hire
Praise Beebo
Just pointing out that it could be worse for the last option out of the pen.
And his 109 ERA+ suggests he's just above league average. Eye test shows he's just below league average. So I'm going to land on, he's league average.
And his 109 ERA+ suggests he's just above league average. Eye test shows he's just below league average. So I'm going to land on, he's league average.
ColePens
RIP Fugu Buffaloed & parabola
This is a completely different argument, and way more general, but I feel people say that when their team is winning. It's like the Pens fans who say the 4th line has been okay because our regular season success was there. Or those who say the wingers are fine because Dupers/Kunitz put up insane points that one year w/ Sid.
Like Happ and Blanton. Two guys that have been awful pretty much all season. They come to a successful team and things change. Why? Is it the team's success? Is it the player?
Or the other argument - Locke/Pedro. Those 2 put on performances that make you love them, but then they go out and throw complete duds. Is it acceptable because the team is still winning? Do we only penalize them or look to upgrade/move on when it costs us the wrong game?
Like Happ and Blanton. Two guys that have been awful pretty much all season. They come to a successful team and things change. Why? Is it the team's success? Is it the player?
Or the other argument - Locke/Pedro. Those 2 put on performances that make you love them, but then they go out and throw complete duds. Is it acceptable because the team is still winning? Do we only penalize them or look to upgrade/move on when it costs us the wrong game?
clefty
Retrovertigo
Winger for Hire
Praise Beebo
I'VE BEEN WHAT!?!?!
What was the discussion then? I, and others, seemed to have lost it in reading through it. Was it that Bastardo was garbage last night? Because he's wasn't. He faced 2 batter... Ozuna, who's been pounding the ball since his banishment, singled hard off his on his first pitch and he worked McGehee to a full count after falling behind 2-0. I wouldn't call it a good performance, but it wasn't garbage.
Though who should we blame for throwing McGehee 7 straight fastballs? Bastardo for not changing his sequence to a professional fastball hitter or Cervelli for calling for/not going out and talking Bastardo out of throwing 7 straight fastballs.
What was the discussion then? I, and others, seemed to have lost it in reading through it. Was it that Bastardo was garbage last night? Because he's wasn't. He faced 2 batter... Ozuna, who's been pounding the ball since his banishment, singled hard off his on his first pitch and he worked McGehee to a full count after falling behind 2-0. I wouldn't call it a good performance, but it wasn't garbage.
Though who should we blame for throwing McGehee 7 straight fastballs? Bastardo for not changing his sequence to a professional fastball hitter or Cervelli for calling for/not going out and talking Bastardo out of throwing 7 straight fastballs.
ColePens
RIP Fugu Buffaloed & parabola
Lol stop overthinking this - the reaction is for the fact that Bastardo in 2 straight attempts to give MM a break has failed to even record an out. If that doesn't require the word garbage - then expect me to nitpick the hell out of you guys during Penguin GDTs when Letang clutches 300 times from the top PP spot in the Umbrella.
Your warning...
Your warning...
WickedWrister
Registered User
Damn, would've really liked to see the cards blow that game last night. The dbacks loaded the bases in the 8th and only got 1, and also had several RISP in the 9th. Oh well
Winger for Hire
Praise Beebo
Melancon didn't need a rest last night. Yesterday was his third day in a row pitching. No big deal if he's unavailable today to throw. Watson and Soria are both capable of closing out tonight if needed. It would have been nice to not have needed Melancon, but they decided to go ahead and use him. He was up and throwing, so he was prepared to come in anyways so last night probably wouldn't have been considered a rest day for him.
If they go ahead and pick up the win tonight with Locke going 6, Blanton going 2 and Watson or Soria nailing it down you're still in a good position to make it to the August 31st off day without over taxing the bullpen.
If they go ahead and pick up the win tonight with Locke going 6, Blanton going 2 and Watson or Soria nailing it down you're still in a good position to make it to the August 31st off day without over taxing the bullpen.
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