OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: Dull days of July

[Empoleon8771]

I'm not trying to bring the mood down, especially with the Pirates kicking the shit out of the Brewers right now (Suwinski has been quietly going on a run recently), I just think it's silly to try to excuse any aspect of the Pirates management staff. Nutting is a cheap as shit owner. Cherington is a bad GM that whiffed on selling numerous good MLB players, which dramatically stunted the rebuild of the team. Shelton is just generally a dud that doesn't inspire confidence. They're all shitty and all responsible for the mediocrity this team.

I'd say Nutting is #1, Cherington is #2 and Shelton is #3 in terms of "responsibility", but that's like measuring the least loser vs the most loser there

I think it's like 60/40 Nutting/GMBC if you want to assign blame on our mediocrity but I won't fault anyone for having it more in one direction or the other.

Meanwhile Priester is still dealing and a Suwinski BOMB!

I feel like we hit so many HR's in blowout games lol

I think that number is super fair if we're just talking Nutting and Cherington.

Including Shelton, I'd put it like 50% Nutting, 30% Cherrington and 20% Shelton.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

The issue with Cherington is you can't afford to miss that badly when you're the GM of a small market/cheap team.

 

[WickedWrister]

And another f***ing BOMB!

Palacios!

I swear to god we can't ration our HR's lol

 

[BusinessGoose]

You joshing me? Palacios joins the parade

 

[Empoleon8771]

Also in terms of positive news, the Pirates are finally starting to get some results from Suwinski to justify their patience with him over the recent window. He seems to be in the early parts of one of his insanely hot runs that bring up his shit numbers.

His OPs has already increased from .543 to .606 in just 8 games this month. I wouldn't be surprised if he puts up another 3-4 HRs this month and gets above a .700 OPS on the year. Which really just masks how truly awful he has been for most of the year, but I digress

 

[BusinessGoose]

Biggest pirates win was 9-0 in MIL according to radio feed.

We're in line to exceed that.

Also, was our 7th grand slam of the year earlier. Ties franchise record in a single season. 1978 and 1996.

We should be able to blow that out of the water through the rest of the year.

 

[Coastal Kev]

I don't even think this is the case, selling off the guys they sold off made sense because the team needed to tear down and rebuild. But that doesn't change that Cherington completely whiffed on the returns he got for those numerous good MLB players that he traded.



Absolutely zero chance you could make that argument.

Langford is at a 1.7 WAR and 117 OPS+. Saying that would have 5-8 more wins with him is downright laughable.

In terms of WAR, Skenes has been more valuable through 10 games than Langford has been though 67 games.

WAR is something that nerds like Cherington use for fail. In the real world, putting Langford in this lineup would raise all sails.

Notice that I said you could "make the argument" and respond with a fantasy stat that doesn't count so many other factors as "fact".

Wake up

 

[Empoleon8771]

WAR is something that nerds like Cherington use for fail. In the real world, putting Langford in this lineup would raise all sails.

Notice that I said you could "make the argument" and respond with a fantasy stat that doesn't count so many other factors as "fact".

Wake up

This is the most boomer post I've ever seen on this site, good lord

I'm not even going to dismiss Langford, he's a great player, but the idea that a 117 OPS+ hitter somehow adds 5-8 wins in half a season is downright stupidity.

 

[BusinessGoose]

Well one thing that Skenes brings that is not measurable is eyes and media.

MLB loves Skenes. Would they hype Langford this hard on a .500 team at the all star break?

There's some value to that.. Maybe.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Also do you know what's even funnier about the claim of "WAR is for nerds, Langford would raise sails in this lineup"?

Pirates record: 43-47 before today
Rangers record: 43-48 before today

Langford is so electric that he makes a team with a payroll of $221.5 million has an identical record to a team with a $85.3 million payroll.

 

[ImporterExporter]

It truly is astounding that people put 30-40% of the blame on the GM, who's working for arguably the worst owner in baseball.

How many division titles did we have under Huntington? How many playoff wins (series) did we have under him? And how much money was that GM given year over year compared to this one?

Nobody will defend the bulk of trades and the majority (not vast) of FA signings, but the drafts are bearing fruit and yeah, I'm giving Cherington and his team for taking Skenes, when most swinging dicks and vaginas said it wasn't going to be him all the way up until draft day. The oddsmakers literally flipped about 10 minutes prior to the pick.

I sure as hell am giving him credit for Jared Jones and Keller's turnaround. And let's wait and see what we get out of the next wave of prospects before we declare a total failure.

Oh, and the previous GM. How many years did it take under his guidance until the Pirates had a winning season? And what year are we in w/Cherington?

How easily people forget history.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

Biggest pirates win was 9-0 in MIL according to radio feed.

We're in line to exceed that.

Also, was our 7th grand slam of the year earlier. Ties franchise record in a single season. 1978 and 1996.

We should be able to blow that out of the water through the rest of the year.

Gun to my head, I would never have guessed the 1996 Pirates hit seven grand slams.

I probably wouldn't have guessed 1978, either, but that team at least had Wilver Dornell Stargell.

 

[ImporterExporter]

The issue with Cherington is you can't afford to miss that badly when you're the GM of a small market/cheap team.

Well, it took 7 years for us to be a winner under Huntington, who also never saw this franchise capture a division title or win a playoff series beyond a play-in.

 

[td_ice]

Also in terms of positive news, the Pirates are finally starting to get some results from Suwinski to justify their patience with him over the recent window. He seems to be in the early parts of one of his insanely hot runs that bring up his shit numbers.

His OPs has already increased from .543 to .606 in just 8 games this month. I wouldn't be surprised if he puts up another 3-4 HRs this month and gets above a .700 OPS on the year. Which really just masks how truly awful he has been for most of the year, but I digress

Yeah when Jack goes on a tear, look out. He gets white hot. Unfortunately, the dry spells are way too long.

 

[BusinessGoose]

If youre gonna put a position player in to pitch top ninth...

... Why the f*** are you swinging for hits in the bottom ninth??? f***in chourio garbage time double

 

[WickedWrister]

It truly is astounding that people put 30-40% of the blame on the GM, who's working for arguably the worst owner in baseball.

How many division titles did we have under Huntington? How many playoff wins (series) did we have under him? And how much money was that GM given year over year compared to this one?

Nobody will defend the bulk of trades and the majority (not vast) of FA signings, but the drafts are bearing fruit and yeah, I'm giving Cherington and his team for taking Skenes, when most swinging dicks and vaginas said it wasn't going to be him all the way up until draft day. The oddsmakers literally flipped about 10 minutes prior to the pick.

I sure as hell am giving him credit for Jared Jones and Keller's turnaround. And let's wait and see what we get out of the next wave of prospects before we declare a total failure.

Oh, and the previous GM. How many years did it take under his guidance until the Pirates had a winning season? And what year are we in w/Cherington?

How easily people forget history.

I think we're splitting hairs on percentages and all agree that the primary reason for our lack of success, the one constant, is ownership.

It's hard not to look at that slide in April and early May before we called up Skenes and think that with another ~$25m on a mid rotation starter and another power bat (I wanted Hoskins who has been pretty bad) that we claw out a few more wins.

 

[BusinessGoose]

Got a good feeling about this game vs the brewers

RAISE IT

 

[WickedWrister]

Raise it!

 

[td_ice]

RAISE IT

Haha, I was about to hype up your post, haha until you did it yourself.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Looking back on the early career Huntington teams, I think I have a hot take to make: those teams were far better than their records suggested, and they were undone by some really dogshit management.

I wonder what the 2008 Pirates could have looked like had they gotten Hurdle in that year rather than have 3 years of John Russell. That 2008 team actually had some really solid pieces.

 

[WickedWrister]

Joey Barrels lol

 

[BusinessGoose]

Good to see Priester slot in and lock it down

(Fleming wasn't the WORST pirates pitcher in that first inning, but it wasn't looking like he was feeling it)

Good, timely hitting. But yeah it would be nice to you know, hit three homers every game rather than six, and nothing for two games

 

[Coastal Kev]

This is the most boomer post I've ever seen on this site, good lord

I'm not even going to dismiss Langford, he's a great player, but the idea that a 117 OPS+ hitter somehow adds 5-8 wins in half a season is downright stupidity.

That's because you probably never played a sport and don't understand the domino affect.

nerds

 

[td_ice]

Yeah, huge kudos to the offense, and Quinn Priester. 6 solid, we'll take it!!

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

Looking back on the early career Huntington teams, I think I have a hot take to make: those teams were far better than their records suggested, and they were undone by some really dogshit management.

I wonder what the 2008 Pirates could have looked like had they gotten Hurdle in that year rather than have 3 years of John Russell. That 2008 team actually had some really solid pieces.

The 2003 Pirates were done in by a laughably bad bullpen.

Mike "5 ERA" Williams was the closer and the Pirate ASG rep, lol.