OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: Dull days of July

[BusinessGoose]

This completely glosses over what Cherington gave up for those guys. Want to argue Nutting is a bigger issue? That's fair for sure, but let's not re-write Cherington's awful trade history with the Pirates.

Look at these trades:

-Marte for Peguero and Malone
-Bell for Yean and Crowe
-Musgrove for Bednar, Head, Fellows, Cruz and Rodriguez
-Taillon for CSN, Yajure and Escotto
-Frazier for Suwinski, Marcano and Miliano
-Holmes for Castillo and Park
-Stallings for Nicolas and Scott
-Anderson for Bins and Tejada
-Vogelbach for Holderman
-Quintana and Stratton for Oviedo and Nunez
-Castro for Falter

There is FAR more bad here than good, which is shown in their WAR numbers:

And buried in all of this, was mostly none of it was a surprise outcome, even at the time

We were trading a dude who was gonna have a career, for two dudes who could maybe elevate to useful one day

Pretty much every trade was a net negative from the drop

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

And buried in all of this, was mostly none of it was a surprise outcome, even at the time

We were trading a dude who was gonna have a career, for two dudes who could maybe elevate to useful one day

Pretty much every trade was a net negative from the drop

Id like to know what the WAR count is on their original contracts. Thats the reason they were traded in the first place.

 

[metalan2]

This clown Rabello holding runners again. Two hits with runners in scoring position and one run. It ALWAYS backfires.

Edit - Grand slam. Good call Rabello!

He's not
Fleming was out of control in the first

So they went to bullpen in the 2nd

Ahhh. No shit did not see that.

 

[WickedWrister]

GRANNY!

 

[BusinessGoose]

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

That's what you get for being named Bryse, and being a former Pirate.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Bart's not going to be a consistent hitter but god damn they absolutely need to keep him long-term as one of their 2 regular catchers.

An Endy-Bart catching duo long-term looks damn good to me.

 

[Factorial]

Bryce Wilson is much fatter than he was the Bucs.

 

[metalan2]

Priester should have struck out Hoskins. Third strike fully in the middle of the plate and he called it a ball lol.

 

[BusinessGoose]

Priester should have struck out Hoskins. Third strike fully in the middle of the plate and he called it a ball lol.

Ump been pretty bad. No way scorecard looks good whenever it's tallied later

 

[WickedWrister]

Ok Quinn, I see you dawg.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Priester looks like a damn solid #5 pitcher at this point. I actually don't know that they have a spot in the rotation for him but he probably deserves one.

The Pirates really need to use some of their SP depth to help the bats. Next year, they're going to have Keller, Skenes, Jones, Oviedo, Falter, Priester, Ortiz and possibly Ashcraft as guys who should be in a MLB rotation, and that's not even touching on free agent additions they may make.

 

[metalan2]

Wow, Priester looks like he should actually be in Top Gun.

 

[WickedWrister]

 

[BusinessGoose]

Row-dy Row-dy

 

[ImporterExporter]

Id like to know what the WAR count is on their original contracts. Thats the reason they were traded in the first place.

Precisely. None of those players traded away had a long term future here.

The trades were largely failures, but not entirely and acting like we traded players (Musgrove for example) who would be helping us in 2024, 2025 and 2026 given their impending cost increases, is nonsense.

I'd give Cherington a C-/D grade on trades and probably something similar when it comes to signings.

Skenes
Jones

We're not seeing them in Pirates colors if the team was mediocre instead of bad the first few years of Cherington's tenure. What would another 5, 6, 7, hell 10 wins bought us from 2021 until now?

Most experts and people on this board didn't even want/think Skenes was our best option.

Let's just wait and see what happens once more talent arrives in the next 12-24 months.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Precisely. None of those players traded away had a long term future here.

The trades were largely failures, but not entirely and acting like we traded players (Musgrove for example) who would be helping us in 2024, 2025 and 2026 given their impending cost increases, is nonsense.

Literally no one is acting like that. I'm pointing out that Cherington gave away numerous good MLB players for literally no value, because he constantly whiffed on the trades he made when selling the pieces he inherited.

 

[td_ice]

This completely glosses over what Cherington gave up for those guys. Want to argue Nutting is a bigger issue? That's fair for sure, but let's not re-write Cherington's awful trade history with the Pirates.

Look at these trades:

-Marte for Peguero and Malone
-Bell for Yean and Crowe
-Musgrove for Bednar, Head, Fellows, Cruz and Rodriguez
-Taillon for CSN, Yajure and Escotto
-Frazier for Suwinski, Marcano and Miliano
-Holmes for Castillo and Park
-Stallings for Nicolas and Scott
-Anderson for Bins and Tejada
-Vogelbach for Holderman
-Quintana and Stratton for Oviedo and Nunez
-Castro for Falter

There is FAR more bad here than good, which is shown in their WAR numbers:

And I absolutely give no credit to GMBC for picking Skenes. Any player THAT OBVIOUS, that he was a clear cut pick to me, as a "Joe Fan", deserves only, "well at least he didn't F that up" praise. Which is faint praise at best.

 

[BusinessGoose]

Precisely. None of those players traded away had a long term future here.

The trades were largely failures, but not entirely and acting like we traded players (Musgrove for example) who would be helping us in 2024, 2025 and 2026 given their impending cost increases, is nonsense.

And there it is.

We gave them away because we're cheap. That doesn't make it a good trade just because you "can't" afford them. It would excuse it in a salary cap sport. But not in MLB. It's a trash reason to trade talent.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Precisely. None of those players traded away had a long term future here.

The trades were largely failures, but not entirely and acting like we traded players (Musgrove for example) who would be helping us in 2024, 2025 and 2026 given their impending cost increases, is nonsense.

I'd give Cherington a C-/D grade on trades and probably something similar when it comes to signings.

Skenes
Jones

We're not seeing them in Pirates colors if the team was mediocre instead of bad the first few years of Cherington's tenure. What would another 5, 6, 7, hell 10 wins bought us from 2021 until now?

Most experts and people on this board didn't even want/think Skenes was our best option.

Let's just wait and see what happens once more talent arrives in the next 12-24 months.

A little early for the victory lap regarding Skenes no? I wanted Langford over a pitcher and I stand by that choice. I'll bookmark this post for a revisit.

Meanwhile, if the Pirates did draft Langford, you could easily make the argument they would have 5-8 more wins with his bat in the lineup.

 

[Empoleon8771]

And there it is.

We gave them away because we're cheap. That doesn't make it a good trade just because you "can't" afford them. It would excuse it in a salary cap sport. But not in MLB. It's a trash reason to trade talent.

I don't even think this is the case, selling off the guys they sold off made sense because the team needed to tear down and rebuild. But that doesn't change that Cherington completely whiffed on the returns he got for those numerous good MLB players that he traded.

A little early for the victory lap regarding Skenes no? I wanted Langford over a pitcher and I stand by that choice. I'll bookmark this post for a revisit.

Meanwhile, if the Pirates did draft Langford, you could easily make the argument they would have 5-8 more wins with his bat in the lineup.

Absolutely zero chance you could make that argument.

Langford is at a 1.7 WAR and 117 OPS+. Saying that would have 5-8 more wins with him is downright laughable.

In terms of WAR, Skenes has been more valuable through 10 games than Langford has been though 67 games.

 

[BusinessGoose]

Jack'd

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

I just wanted to post this because that grand slam he hit made me think of it.

 

[WickedWrister]

I think it's like 60/40 Nutting/GMBC if you want to assign blame on our mediocrity but I won't fault anyone for having it more in one direction or the other.

Meanwhile Priester is still dealing and a Suwinski BOMB!

I feel like we hit so many HR's in blowout games lol

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Highly enjoyable to smack the shit out of the Brewers. Icing on the cake is that Rowdy's HR just made me about $100 on two different bets.