OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: Congrats to the Houston Cheaters on their win

[Empoleon8771]

Getting Musgrove back would be a dream, but he won't come cheap. I think it would be like 5/$90

I think a team would have to view Musgrove higher than I do to pay him that kind of deal.

I think that kind of deal is #2 starter money and I don't know that I'd call Musgrove a #2 starter.

I checked in on what some Padres fans were saying and they were saying like $15 million a year with term, so it seems like he'll fall in the middle between what we were thinking.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I think a team would have to view Musgrove higher than I do to pay him that kind of deal.

I think that kind of deal is #2 starter money and I don't know that I'd call Musgrove a #2 starter.

I checked in on what some Padres fans were saying and they were saying like $15 million a year with term, so it seems like he'll fall in the middle between what we were thinking.

Joe wants to stay that’s where he is from. He probably will give them a discount however the Padres can’t keep spending money and miss the playoffs. Snell hosmer already costs them 39 million next year and manea needs a new deal. I think he will ask for the contract gray got in Texas 4/56

 

[ChaosAgent]

I dunno. He hasn't signed yet. I'm just fixated because he was really good here, and I think he had another gear. He would also be a good presence. And he is durable.

I'll be POd at Nutting if we don't have at least one material pitching acquisition this winter.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

So are we going to talk about what the reds owner said out loud what we all now is true

'Be careful what you ask for': Phil Castellini on Reds fans who want ownership changes

The Cincinnati Reds aren't for sale, and that's a good thing for baseball in Cincinnati, according to Reds president Phil Castellini

amp.cincinnati.com

 

[Coastal Kev]

So are we going to talk about what the reds owner said out loud what we all now is true

'Be careful what you ask for': Phil Castellini on Reds fans who want ownership changes

The Cincinnati Reds aren't for sale, and that's a good thing for baseball in Cincinnati, according to Reds president Phil Castellini

amp.cincinnati.com

Most people simply don't understand the economics of baseball. The big market clubs are making huge $'s, but the small market clubs are also making huge Profit. If it wasn't so profitable for medium/small markets, they would have forced change with the CBA, they didn't.

These owners or their reps never get asked the right questions to expose their scam. If their number were ever 100% exposed in detail, that could possibly cause an uproar and force change, but that would be dependent on the Media making a big deal about it. The Media are in the bag for major markets.

I like young teams though that have potential, if the Pirates can consistently bring up exciting youth, I would be content.

Right now, their MLB lineup isn't worth the watch.

 

[ChaosAgent]

So are we going to talk about what the reds owner said out loud what we all now is true

'Be careful what you ask for': Phil Castellini on Reds fans who want ownership changes

The Cincinnati Reds aren't for sale, and that's a good thing for baseball in Cincinnati, according to Reds president Phil Castellini

amp.cincinnati.com

I find this a bit odd. What markets could the MLB really expand to? The Carolinas? Nashville? A team in Mexico?

Honestly at this point in my life I'd just keep following one of the Pittsburgh teams I'd they moved. It has never been easier to follow a team from outside of geography.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I find this a bit odd. What markets could the MLB really expand to? The Carolinas? Nashville? A team in Mexico?

Honestly at this point in my life I'd just keep following one of the Pittsburgh teams I'd they moved. It has never been easier to follow a team from outside of geography.

Vegas Orlando Austin Oregon Montreal again

 

[bigdaddyk88]

MLB’s revenue sharing problem, and how to solve it

www.blessyouboys.com

 

[ChaosAgent]

Vegas Orlando Austin Oregon Montreal again

I guess, but those aren't exactly Los Angeles. I suppose the towns could give the owner incentives that maybe Cinci wouldn't. Acquisition incentives like switching between insurance companies

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I guess, but those aren't exactly Los Angeles. I suppose the towns could give the owner incentives that maybe Cinci wouldn't. Acquisition incentives like switching between insurance companies

They have been 17th in mlb in payroll since 2018 with one playoff team that’s not going to work for any owner. Remember the pens were KC bound before the lockout

 

[ChaosAgent]

Castro and Bae both scorching in Indy. If Tucker and VanMeter continue to suck, looks for new versatility catchphrases to come in.

I'm still high on Castro in general. He still has the upside to be JHay with pop which could be a 3-4WAR player.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Combined no hitter for Indy tonight.

 

[OnMyOwn]

I’m disappointed in the lack of “raise it!” posts. Get it together in here, guys.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

I’m disappointed in the lack of “raise it!” posts. Get it together in here, guys.

Well, it would help if they did not play afternoon games when I work

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Hayes is good at baseball

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Solid news. I was going to say earlier that I think the question of when we call up Cruz is actually more of a test than Reynolds, since the best case scenario with Reynolds is a two year deal that avoids arbitration/any ugliness, and then a put up or shut up time for an extension this offseason.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm happy to see him signed to a deal that avoids arbitration for next year, but I would have preferred a longer deal. A long-term deal that ate up UFA years was the goal, but even a 3 year deal that ate up his first 3 arb years would have been nice.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

I agree, but I think the ship had sailed on any big extension because there had been no talks about a framework. This is at least a gesture of good faith on the Pirates behalf, but it really means nothing because it's just solidifying arbitration numbers. A 3 year deal would do the same thing.

I think the most optimistic take is that this lays the foundation to have actual talks over the winter. If Reynolds turns in a similar type of performance, then we'll see how serious the Pirates are. I would put the odds pretty slim, like 90/10 that he's traded eventually, but I do think it's worth noting that Cherington's front office has had a penchant for having news come out of nowhere seemingly. Even with Hayes, it was floated that extension talks took place, but it was basically a surprise. Most of the trades haven't really had rumors ahead of them, even when we knew the players themselves were going to be traded, etc.

So best case scenario, the front office wanted another year of Reynolds performing at a 5-WAR type pace before committing to him long-term. I don't think that's totally crazy, actually, though if Reynolds ends up having a slight step back year, like 3.5 WAR or something, then I wonder if not having any talks at all this offseason will have a bad effect on things.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Well, so far, the moves match the discourse. I am more optimistic than ever that Nutting will end up doing the right things.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

That does not seem like a good deal for Reynolds. If he puts up a similar season as 2021 this year, he would get more than that in 2022 easily.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The pessimist in me thinks that Reynolds is just going to get traded after the 2023 season once the Pirates can't come to an agreement on an extension. That's why I would have preferred the 3 year deal, it's only one more arbitration year but I think they would have been more keen on keeping him for that 3rd year. The biggest benefit to a 2 year deal is that you can start talking extension with him after this season, but I'm highly skeptical that the team would actually do that.

I think the only way Reynolds stays here long-term was if he signed a long-term deal now or if he regresses a bit this season into being in the affordable price range for the Pirates (like $10m-$15m UFA worth regression).

 

[Scandale du Jour]

That does not seem like a good deal for Reynolds. If he puts up a similar season as 2021 this year, he would get more than that in 2022 easily.

Well, he took the deal, so I would guess they agreed to speak again this Summer and work on a longer extension. Or maybe I am being naive

 

[Empoleon8771]

That does not seem like a good deal for Reynolds. If he puts up a similar season as 2021 this year, he would get more than that in 2022 easily.

It seems about right. His arbitration award for this year would have been about $4.5 million, so he would have needed $9 million in arbitration next year to get that.

That's pretty much on the nose for what I was expecting.

 

[pistolpete11]

Not going to arbitration with your best player is the bare minimum that you should expect from a MLB team. So while it's better than the alternative, it's still not 'good'.

Hopefully it lays the groundwork for a long term deal, but the fact they hadn't even approached him about one before now is not encouraging. Seems like they don't think he'll be here when they will be competitive.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think there are only 2 realistic outcomes here:

1. Reynolds is traded after either the 2023 season (so after this deal is done) or after the 2024 season
2. Reynolds regresses to a point where he falls into the "affordable" price range for the Pirates. That would be something like $10m-$15m in his UFA years. I think that would be like 2018 AJ Pollock level, so about a 3ish war player per 162 games.

I think both of these are at least reasonably possible, a Reynolds regression into a "still good but not borderline MVP candidate" would make him affordable for the Pirates to re-sign as a UFA.