OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: Congrats to the Houston Cheaters on their win
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ChaosAgent
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Empoleon8771
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DJ Spinoza
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Looks like we have also cleared two 40-man spots ahead of the winter meetings, with Sanchez and Yajure both being waived and then claimed. As people are pointing out over on twitter, you can place guys on waivers and then decide what to do based on whether they are claimed or not -- work out a trade, let them go, etc. Yajure certainly really fell off with the injury, and maybe a different org will get more out of him (and the Giants claiming him is a little worrisome), but he's emergency depth at this point, as is Sanchez.
These are very minor moves, but together with the weird delay in a corresponding move for Santana and then the winter meetings coming up, they look like aggressive moves that seem to indicate more activity is coming. It could certainly be as simple as them wanting one or both of these guys to be claimed or dealt in a nothing-for-player type trade instead of losing Diaz, but even if that were the case, dropping down to 38/40 on the 40-man right now would seem to indicate some moves are coming.
At minimum, I think it still might be possible for prospects to be added and thus yanked away from the Rule 5 draft, so maybe that could be part of it. However, I don't really think there are big dangers of losing a player in a way that would matter. Gorski has intriguing tools but he strikes out too much, and Nunez would basically occupy a DH-only spot on a roster and despite having potential and performing, I just don't think that profile is going to move teams. Thomas is actually more who I am worried about losing, as the right pitching program could get a leverage reliever out of him.
So we'll see if any activity is about to rain down. Supposedly there is an offer on the table for Gibson, and based on the Eflin contract, 3/40 or more certainly seems like what it's going to take to sign any mid-tier player. We need the pitching, but the longer the offseason goes, the more I almost prefer to take the cheaper route with pitching and commit instead to the above average everyday player in Benintendi. There's the injury risk factor, but there's also the fact that we've had a good record with the one-year, super cheap options, and so turning to those players this year and next might make more sense. I think it still should be very possible to do something like Benintendi, Gibson, Wacha, and a catcher for no more than 20M combined, letting the bullpen be assembled from within, but there's no actual evidence that such a swath of moves could happen.
Finally, I am a little apprehensive about catcher as we head to the winter meetings. Sanchez was obviously depth, but there must be some kind of plan if we just let him go over waivers. The pitchers very clearly want Perez back, and I am fine with that, but the injury risk worries me. I almost wonder if we might try to bring in two catchers if we signed Perez, but then that more firmly blocks Endy. A lot seems to be riding on Perez's showing this winter, which is only about to get underway. It almost feels like if he still has injury issues, it would be worth seeing if he could just become a bench coach or something, given the way the pitchers praise him so much. He's only 33, so that would be an early transition.
A sneaky surprise move would be to try and pry Jansen from the Blue Jays, though obviously people might balk at using assets to get a catcher with Endy and Davis on the way. But Jansen is controllable for 2 years and would be a pretty decisive upgrade, including offensively, and not really block Endy or even Davis all that much. I guess you could have a situation where it's hard to find time if all three would start the 2024 year in Pittsburgh, but between the DH spot and keeping everyone fresh, there's time to go around. I don't think this would even be close to being a possibility.
We'll see, I do lean towards something being up given these very minor moves, but they might just be about timing and flexibility.
These are very minor moves, but together with the weird delay in a corresponding move for Santana and then the winter meetings coming up, they look like aggressive moves that seem to indicate more activity is coming. It could certainly be as simple as them wanting one or both of these guys to be claimed or dealt in a nothing-for-player type trade instead of losing Diaz, but even if that were the case, dropping down to 38/40 on the 40-man right now would seem to indicate some moves are coming.
At minimum, I think it still might be possible for prospects to be added and thus yanked away from the Rule 5 draft, so maybe that could be part of it. However, I don't really think there are big dangers of losing a player in a way that would matter. Gorski has intriguing tools but he strikes out too much, and Nunez would basically occupy a DH-only spot on a roster and despite having potential and performing, I just don't think that profile is going to move teams. Thomas is actually more who I am worried about losing, as the right pitching program could get a leverage reliever out of him.
So we'll see if any activity is about to rain down. Supposedly there is an offer on the table for Gibson, and based on the Eflin contract, 3/40 or more certainly seems like what it's going to take to sign any mid-tier player. We need the pitching, but the longer the offseason goes, the more I almost prefer to take the cheaper route with pitching and commit instead to the above average everyday player in Benintendi. There's the injury risk factor, but there's also the fact that we've had a good record with the one-year, super cheap options, and so turning to those players this year and next might make more sense. I think it still should be very possible to do something like Benintendi, Gibson, Wacha, and a catcher for no more than 20M combined, letting the bullpen be assembled from within, but there's no actual evidence that such a swath of moves could happen.
Finally, I am a little apprehensive about catcher as we head to the winter meetings. Sanchez was obviously depth, but there must be some kind of plan if we just let him go over waivers. The pitchers very clearly want Perez back, and I am fine with that, but the injury risk worries me. I almost wonder if we might try to bring in two catchers if we signed Perez, but then that more firmly blocks Endy. A lot seems to be riding on Perez's showing this winter, which is only about to get underway. It almost feels like if he still has injury issues, it would be worth seeing if he could just become a bench coach or something, given the way the pitchers praise him so much. He's only 33, so that would be an early transition.
A sneaky surprise move would be to try and pry Jansen from the Blue Jays, though obviously people might balk at using assets to get a catcher with Endy and Davis on the way. But Jansen is controllable for 2 years and would be a pretty decisive upgrade, including offensively, and not really block Endy or even Davis all that much. I guess you could have a situation where it's hard to find time if all three would start the 2024 year in Pittsburgh, but between the DH spot and keeping everyone fresh, there's time to go around. I don't think this would even be close to being a possibility.
We'll see, I do lean towards something being up given these very minor moves, but they might just be about timing and flexibility.
MrBrightside
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Empoleon8771
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Empoleon8771
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Gallatin
A Banksy of Goonism
ChaosAgent
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I think this is a good thing.
It exposes that the players don't actually believe the organization has accomplished all that much.
And it gives the org cover to do what needs to be done; use assets from a 28-year-old Reynolds to extend the window on the back-end.
BC was never as close to a contender as the thread optimists claimed. And Reynolds could see that he wasn't going to get the big contract here.
It exposes that the players don't actually believe the organization has accomplished all that much.
And it gives the org cover to do what needs to be done; use assets from a 28-year-old Reynolds to extend the window on the back-end.
BC was never as close to a contender as the thread optimists claimed. And Reynolds could see that he wasn't going to get the big contract here.
Empoleon8771
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ChaosAgent
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Empoleon8771
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I don't agree with the idea that the Pirates trading Reynolds now would really be a major step down in value. The OF market right now is downright horrendous right now and Reynolds still had a pretty good 2022 season. They'll still get a terrific return for him right now if they traded him.
The bigger issue I have with Cherington in this situation is that Reynolds seemed like he wanted to stay in Pittsburgh, but Cherington didn't want to pay him like he was a cornerstone piece.
The bigger issue I have with Cherington in this situation is that Reynolds seemed like he wanted to stay in Pittsburgh, but Cherington didn't want to pay him like he was a cornerstone piece.
ChaosAgent
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I guess.
Ultimately they didn't get Julio Rodriguez in 2021. But I'm guessing it was closer than now.
We'll probably get the equivalent of: Burrows, Nick Gonzales and Solometo
Which...fine? It'll be cool to rise the system rankings. But I don't think we get the same caliber of headliner back as we would have at the 2021 deadline.
Empoleon8771
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I'm also a Mariners fan so I've been following their fan reactions a bit. If the Pirates and Mariners could do a trade of Reynolds for Gilbert and Kelenic, I think that fills pretty clear needs on both teams and it looks pretty reasonable in terms of value.
ChaosAgent
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Gilbert would be dope.
Kelenic as a distant second piece...I dunno. We've paved the road with "big hype prospects" who failed epically before. Andy Laroche, Lastings Milledge, Brandon Wood. Typically there isn't some big unlock, they just can't hit ML pitching.
Empoleon8771
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Kelenic would just be a pure lottery ticket, the deal would basically be Reynolds for Gilbert.
I keep seeing Mariners fans trying to throw out these quantity packages to get Reynolds and they're all laughable. The Mariners splurged on getting Castillo (which was a good decision and good to see him get re-signed), they don't have the prospect pool to also get Reynolds on top of that just months later.
Empoleon8771
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Mackey on 93.7 now. Mackey's thought is basically that the Pirates won't pay Reynolds what Reynolds and his camp wants, so Reynolds camp thinks the Pirates need to just rip off the bandaid and trade him now. Mackey seemingly agrees with that it's best to trade Reynolds now.
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MrBrightside
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I could see Seattle trading Kelenic maybe at the trade deadline if they're looking strong, not during off-season
ChaosAgent
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Mackey on 93.7 now. Mackey's thought is basically that the Pirates won't pay Reynolds what Reynolds and his camp wants, so Reynolds camp thinks the Pirates need to just rip off the bandaid and trade him now. Mackey seemingly agrees with that it's best to trade Reynolds now.
I mean, I agree.
If you get traded the team will likely give him an extension as part of the justification for getting him in the first place. He's now "guy in our outfield for the next 7 years" Reynolds. The best way for him to get paid, which should be his main mission, is to be part of a big trade.
Empoleon8771
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People are going to shit on the Pirates for this, but I honestly just think this is a situation where the team put its best reasonable offer forward for Reynolds and it just wasn't enough for Reynolds.
My bet is that they offered him something like 5 years at $75 million, which is a completely reasonable offer from the Pirates after how Reynolds regressed last year but Reynolds can almost assuredly get better elsewhere if he bounces back.
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I’m sure getting paid is part of the reason Reynolds wants out. But it’s also because he sees that this team doesn’t actually have any designs on trying to be competitive anytime soon.
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