OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: Congrats to the Houston Cheaters on their win

[Coastal Kev]

That's his high water mark here.

Though his 2020 draft ain't looking so hot right now.

Something I never see discussed is player development; is anyone confident that know how to bring out the best in their young players? When players leave the organization, they typically get better from my casual observation.

 

[ImporterExporter]

If anyone was wondering given the Meyer injury happened against us...sucks for the kid. Seems like just about every single P who makes it to this level ends up having TJ. Makes me wonder how guys pitched complete game after complete game, year after year, for generations.

 

[Gallatin]

If anyone was wondering given the Meyer injury happened against us...sucks for the kid. Seems like just about every single P who makes it to this level ends up having TJ. Makes me wonder how guys pitched complete game after complete game, year after year, for generations.

I believe the relentless hunt for velocity has changed things this century.

 

[ImporterExporter]

I believe the relentless hunt for velocity has changed things this century.

Makes Nolan Ryan's longevity insane to think about. Hell, even a more recent guy like Randy Johnson. These guys weren't soft tossing command artists.

 

[cookthebooks]

how many mlb pitchers were there in total back then, between smaller league and 4 man rotations? i think it was more about attrition/natural selection. guys who ruined their arms were done for and the few freaks with rubber ones stuck around. the pool of sacrificial arms nowadays isnt big enough for the demand.

 

[Gallatin]

Makes Nolan Ryan's longevity insane to think about. Hell, even a more recent guy like Randy Johnson. These guys weren't soft tossing command artists.

Oh sure thing. But they also weren't doing it alone. This was the Steroid Era afterall, during Johnson's entire career, and Ryan's ridiculous mid-40's run.

But that's just the thing, Ryan didn't throw it as hard as he could most of the time. He always seemed to have extra miles to call on if needed, unlike most modern pitchers that consistently max out velocity.

Nolan Ryan was the biggest outlier, the greatest in the history of the game IMO, even with Steroids in mind. But he still did it cheating those last years.

Speaking of 100mph fastballs, I finally gave up on Tanaj Thomas back in May, he's basically been crushing since. High leverage reliever is the hope now, and although I have not seen him pitch during this stretch, the numbers are quite impressive: A 1.74 ERA over 20.2ip, 24/4 k/bb rate.

Never thought I'd see this guy get the walks down so much. Has anyone seen him pitch lately?

 

[Gallatin]

Have a theory I'm wanting to explore involving the Bucs new Development Process. Kinda looking for thoughts.

Pirate prospects now have a real say in how their own development goes, as well as an unprecedented ability to fine-tune their tools unsupervised in the offseason using technology.

At the same time, it seems like the whole sport of baseball, all the hitters at least, have been adapting an "All Or Nothing" approach to hit for power.

My theory is one that could explain the incredibly high strikeout rates the Bucs have throughout the entire organization this year.

Theory: now that the players have a significant say in their own development, they're mostly going for the same approach that everyone else in Baseball is going for. They're selling out to hit for power because they want to. That's why the K rates are so high, that's why the batting averages are so low throughout the organization, and the Sport in general.

I guess the question would be, how much are the Pirates trying to influence their player development plans in either direction? Because I think it's pretty obvious all the players just want to hit for power these days if they have the ability.

 

[TotesTorts]

My theory is pitchers throw too hard today, leaving batters little choice but to swing for the fences. It wasn't that long ago a 95 mph fastball was a big deal and put a guy in the tops of the league for velocity. Now it's commonplace, and no adjustments have been made to the diamond to account for it.

This also plays into why the shift is now, IMO, a completely unfair practice. The shift has always been around, but it was a lot easier for batters to pick their spots when the average pitcher was throwing 90 and below, as they did until maybe sometime in the 1980s. When betters are facing starters and relievers who give them half an eyeblink to decide to swing, it's not reasonable to expect much angling to happen. They're swinging and hoping for the best.

I'd be for moving the mound back, lowering it, or both. We would see most hitters come back to going for average.

Sluggers will be sluggers.

 

[TotesTorts]

Also related is the above question about TJS. Mechanics today is geared toward velocity and the human body can't handle the strain.

Often you hear people say something like "Nolan Ryan did it!" Yeah, well Nolan Ryan was a freak of nature, like Babe Ruth. We don't go around trying to make everyone hit like Babe Ruth.

 

[Gallatin]

My theory is pitchers throw too hard today, leaving batters little choice but to swing for the fences. It wasn't that long ago a 95 mph fastball was a big deal and put a guy in the tops of the league for velocity. Now it's commonplace, and no adjustments have been made to the diamond to account for it.

This also plays into why the shift is now, IMO, a completely unfair practice. The shift has always been around, but it was a lot easier for batters to pick their spots when the average pitcher was throwing 90 and below, as they did until maybe sometime in the 1980s. When betters are facing starters and relievers who give them half an eyeblink to decide to swing, it's not reasonable to expect much angling to happen. They're swinging and hoping for the best.

I'd be for moving the mound back, lowering it, or both. We would see most hitters come back to going for average.

Sluggers will be sluggers.

Yeah between the extreme velocities, and extreme spin breaking balls, what's a hitter to do?

I still think the generational guys can hit, but the above average player is at a much bigger disadvantage than he used to be in the batter's box IMO.

I'm the lucky guy in conversation now and then with an MLB Development Coach, a recently retired Bucs Scout, and a current MLB Scout. The feeling inside the League is that the Shift will be outlawed. And I'm all for it.

 

[Josey Wales]

Ok, champ. So there's no confusion, I don't want him anywhere in the lineup. If he's going to be in the lineup, he should not be batting leadoff. Not sure if you're just being antagonistic or are a Shelton Super Fan or a VanMeter Super Fan or what and you're entitled to your opinion. My opinion is that a guy with a .260 OBP should not be hitting leadoff. Enjoy your day.

I guess you missed where I said I want him DFA'd

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Easy to cherry pick after the HR, but Cruz looks noticeably looser at the plate since the ASB. Even early in the game, it's not an ideal result to flyout on the second pitch of the AB, but his game needs to be attack, aggressiveness forward, etc. He can be too aggressive and then get exploited and need to make adjustments -- I think that's a better pace for him, and the kind of level adjustment he's had to make every step of the way.

Before, it just seemed like he was being told he needed to try and see X number of pitches and was out of whack. Weirdly, I didn't notice that from him in his first week or so, even though the results weren't there then. My assumption is that they let him do his own thing to start, then set some weird plan in, and now it's back to the former. Hopefully they just leave him alone.

 

[ImporterExporter]

I'd like to ask Shelton, to his face, why he continues to bat Cruz in the 7 hole.

And why in the f*** would the Cubs even pitch to him there? Did they not see the mighty JVM on deck? Who, by the way, popped out weakly....

Cruz is going to be just fine.

 

[ImporterExporter]

 

[Empoleon8771]

Cruz now has a 6 game hit streak and has hits in 12 of his last 15 games and is slashing .250/.288/.464 over those games. A .752 OPS while playing the quality of defense he has provided at SS is really nothing to scoff at.

He just needs to have a game or two of a nice 3 hit game to get his stats looking nicer.

 

[Gallatin]

I think he's going to make it. But he absolutely will need more plate patience to get where he can go.

 

[sovietsanta87]

When Shelton is fired, we’ll know when BC thinks this team should be ready to compete

 

[MrBrightside]

Cruz is the least of the issues with this organization. He will be fine.

 

[Empoleon8771]

BC needs to dangle some of their prospects for this.

 

[MrBrightside]

They’ve scored 2 or fewer runs in 7 of the last 9 games. But by all means let’s keep showcasing this offensive talent to maximize the trade return at the deadline.

 

[sovietsanta87]

BC needs to dangle some of their prospects for this.

Quick. Sign Chris archer and trade to get Meadows back

 

[MrBrightside]

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Another HR for Endy tonight -- he's on a tear. Saw some chatter noting that he's got some fairly heavy splits (Greensboro is extremely hitter friendly), but I think it's still a very encouraging development to see the power start to come.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Inside the Clubhouse: Latest on Juan Soto, Cardinals trade targets and more

Breaking down the latest MLB trade rumors FanSided MLB insider Robert Murray is hearing around the league leading up to the MLB trade deadline.

fansided.com

Left-hander Jose Quintana is drawing interest from the New York Yankees and Chicago White Sox, among others, sources said. Another potential fit: the Toronto Blue Jays, who could use him as insurance for the struggling Yusei Kikuchi. But if Kikuchi bounces back, Quintana could shift to the bullpen, a role he thrived in with San Francisco in 2021.

Star outfielder Bryan Reynolds is highly unlikely to be traded. All-Star reliever David Bednar is unlikely to be traded, too.

Murray is usually pretty reliably sourced. Honestly, if Q is going to go, the White Sox might be ideal, in the sense that they have to be a little bit more desperate. I don't really love their system, but maybe with the right kind of combination, they might budge on Jake Burger, who could slot into a starting role (though he's probably a 2B, where there's not a lot of playing time to go around if we're going to promote Marcano and Bae).

 

[ImporterExporter]

Zero interest in Chicago. Their system is a disaster and unless they've got analytics the rest of us don't, nobody remotely sticks out at any level that makes me go, "yeah".

Toronto has multiple arms that make sense and are ranked low enough (I highlighted them a few days back) where a deal could be struck. The Yankees also offer this ability.

Dream is Adrian Hernandez (RP) and Hayden Juenger (SP). 22 and 21 years old, both already promoted to AAA and pitching lights out. Neither ranked inside the top 15 of Toronto's system so the value probably matches up.

Not surprised that BR and DB aren't moving. It would be stupid to move either given the many years of control left and the fact that neither has been consistently stellar this year. I'd rather bring them back as linchpins of the 2023 roster and then reevaluate things next summer.