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OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: Congrats to the Houston Cheaters on their win

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Bednar sneakily trying to tank his value to stay here.

He's regressing to his level - an above average bullpen arm. Not a great one.
 
Empoleon8771 said:
I think there's a couple things that are clearly progress from the position players:

1. Suwinski established himself as a starting OFer and should be sitting in RF going forward. He's some BABIP luck (his BABIP right now is only .223) and drawing more walks away from being a great hitting OFer.
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Suwinski has established himself as a starting OF - why wasn't he on the field today?

Oh actually just checked - he was in Indianapolis and struck out 3x against this guy:
www.milb.com

Cole Sands Stats, Fantasy & News

Cole Sands Stats, Fantasy & News
www.milb.com www.milb.com

You can't say "you've established yourself" if the team is shuttling you back to AAA. Think of how dumb saying Cole Tucker had "established himself" in 2019 would sound in retrospect.
 
Gallatin said:
I see a lot of similarities between Keller and Priester.
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I've been saying that for over a year now. Very similar arsenals.

Speaking of Keller, he's really trying to prove the corner has been turned. Winning me over as he continues to pound the zone and trust his stuff. Again, if this is the Keller we can expect most days/nights out, we should be very, very happy. And I'd have to give some props to the staff for the turnaround, certainly.

Priester replicating what Keller has been the last few months would be a fantastic outcome, and sorely needed moving forward.

Oh and Endy had himself a game, again, today. He's now pacing the same offensive totals that got him MVP for the low A league last year. Sitting at .285/.888 for the season. I'll say it again, get him up to AA and push him a bit. Davis and Gonzo won't be back any time soon and Endy can start at C, 1B, 2B, LF.

 
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DocEmrickSkitters said:
Suwinski has established himself as a starting OF - why wasn't he on the field today?

Oh actually just checked - he was in Indianapolis and struck out 3x against this guy:
www.milb.com

Cole Sands Stats, Fantasy & News

Cole Sands Stats, Fantasy & News
www.milb.com www.milb.com

You can't say "you've established yourself" if the team is shuttling you back to AAA. Think of how dumb saying Cole Tucker had "established himself" in 2019 would sound in retrospect.
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And Roansy is in AAA right now too, but I have no problem in saying that he has established himself as a MLB starter.

Suwinski had 1.1 WAR in 72 games. Just because the Pirates sent him down when he was slumping doesn't mean he didn't show he was a MLB starter. It's the same way with Contreras.
 
Empoleon8771 said:
And Roansy is in AAA right now too, but I have no problem in saying that he has established himself as a MLB starter.

Suwinski had 1.1 WAR in 72 games. Just because the Pirates sent him down when he was slumping doesn't mean he didn't show he was a MLB starter. It's the same way with Contreras.
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Suwinski is the best bet of all the non-Cruz upper minors hitters. But it's not a good thing that he's the best bet. That cohort has not performed well.

Roansy is so obviously service time manipulation that I don't care. Suwinski was sent down because he was 0-for-30 or something.

The chatter in the Piratesphere of the youth movement has died down. TBH I think Ben and the brain trust are evaluating whether the window that some of us thought they had in '23-'25 is evaporating with the lack of breakouts from that cohort. And Davis/Gonzales have been bad/injured.
Despite all the stuff in this thread about failure building character or whatever, I'm sure the FO would have preferred a Reynolds/Newman 2019 performance from one of those 8-10 guys.
 
DocEmrickSkitters said:
Suwinski is the best bet of all the non-Cruz upper minors hitters. But it's not a good thing that he's the best bet. That cohort has not performed well.

Roansy is so obviously service time manipulation that I don't care. Suwinski was sent down because he was 0-for-30 or something.

The chatter in the Piratesphere of the youth movement has died down. TBH I think Ben and the brain trust are evaluating whether the window that some of us thought they had in '23-'25 is evaporating with the lack of breakouts from that cohort. And Davis/Gonzales have been bad/injured.
Despite all the stuff in this thread about failure building character or whatever, I'm sure the FO would have preferred a Reynolds/Newman 2019 performance from one of those 8-10 guys.
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This is silly. Suwinski should be in Pittsburgh and they'd be 100x better off giving him regular AB's rather than continuing to waste them on Yoshi and VanMeter and Marisnick and Gamel and Newman and the countless array of guys who aren't part of the future, but the idea that he's an "established everyday major league regular" is preposterous. He's a marginal prospect who has hit for power (a not inconsequential skill to have) but demonstrated nothing else that would grant him that status. He's been a pleasant surprise and I'm 100% on board with giving him a look the rest of the way but that's to try to answer the question and not because the question has been answered.

I mean really, other than Reynolds, Hayes, and Cruz, there's really no one that can be said to have a regular spot locked down for 2023. Hayes, by the way, has an OPS of .548 since June 4, a span of 41 games.
 
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MrBrightside said:
This is silly. Suwinski should be in Pittsburgh and they'd be 100x better off giving him regular AB's rather than continuing to waste them on Yoshi and VanMeter and Marisnick and Gamel and Newman and the countless array of guys who aren't part of the future, but the idea that he's an "established everyday major league regular" is preposterous. He's a marginal prospect who has hit for power (a not inconsequential skill to have) but demonstrated nothing else that would grant him that status. He's been a pleasant surprise and I'm 100% on board with giving him a look the rest of the way but that's to try to answer the question and not because the question has been answered.

I mean really, other than Reynolds, Hayes, and Cruz, there's really no one that can be said to have a regular spot locked down for 2023. Hayes, by the way, has an OPS of .548 since June 4, a span of 41 games.
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I'm there with you. The hitting prospects have had a C-/D+ performance this year. The objective was to have 5+ positions spoken for heading into next year. We have Hayes, Cruz and Suwinski and we don't really know how good they are. We need better outcomes from the 3 aforementioned players and 1-2 other breakouts at the major league level. That to me constitutes success this year. BC doesn't get to downgrade this whole upper minors cohort. Not when he is responsible for a bunch of them. But I guess it's time to start reposting the exploits of the 18 year olds..time for goalpost moving.
 
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DocEmrickSkitters said:
I'm there with you. The hitting prospects have had a C-/D+ performance this year. The objective was to have 5+ positions spoken for heading into next year. We have Hayes, Cruz and Suwinski and we don't really know how good they are. We need better outcomes from the 3 aforementioned players and 1-2 other breakouts at the major league level. That to me constitutes success this year. BC doesn't get to downgrade this whole upper minors cohort. Not when he is responsible for a bunch of them. But I guess it's time to start reposting the exploits of the 18 year olds..time for goalpost moving.
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It’s a byproduct of not having enough organizational talent in the previous 3-4 years. We should’ve gone all out in 2016 then blew up the roster. Instead we hung on for two more years and, in that time, traded our three best prospects for a bad pitcher AND lost our top trade chip due to him being a total pedophile.

Gamel marisnick newman and yoshi were brought in to bridge the gap between the prospects close to graduating. I hate the signings too but it’s the best we can afford. Scratch that. It’s the best the owner is willing to spend. Maybe BC figures he’ll have more money to spend later.

None of those four players should be starting. Just like half our bullpen shouldn’t be wearing major league uniforms. As bad as it is, I would rather have these dummies playing than rushing prospects through the system just to get them playing time in the big leagues. If they’re not ready their development could stall.

The upper level guys absolutely need to hit better. That’s the biggest hang up for me. Idk what the deal is but our development with hitters is subpar to put it nicely.
 
sovietsanta87 said:
It’s a byproduct of not having enough organizational talent in the previous 3-4 years. We should’ve gone all out in 2016 then blew up the roster. Instead we hung on for two more years and, in that time, traded our three best prospects for a bad pitcher AND lost our top trade chip due to him being a total pedophile.

Gamel marisnick newman and yoshi were brought in to bridge the gap between the prospects close to graduating. I hate the signings too but it’s the best we can afford. Scratch that. It’s the best the owner is willing to spend. Maybe BC figures he’ll have more money to spend later.

None of those four players should be starting. Just like half our bullpen shouldn’t be wearing major league uniforms. As bad as it is, I would rather have these dummies playing than rushing prospects through the system just to get them playing time in the big leagues. If they’re not ready their development could stall.

The upper level guys absolutely need to hit better. That’s the biggest hang up for me. Idk what the deal is but our development with hitters is subpar to put it nicely.
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I agree with this generally, but we rattle off the lower minors guys like the upper minors guys. And the upper minors guys haven't gotten it in gear. Well aside from Suwinski for a bit but he crashed back to earth epically.

So it's pretty hard to get excited about whoever Lopez, Hudson Head, Nolasco, etc. when the B-prospects at the upper levels haven't broken out. I mean, Reynolds was a B-prospect. Josh Harrison was a B-prospect. By the end of his minor league tenure Walker was a B-prospect. What gives? Individually the years of Mitchell, Castro, Marcano, Castillo, Smith-Njigba's inevitable injury, Swaggerty, etc. are fine. Collectively we needed a breakout.

If we don't get support from this cohort we need all of Cruz, Davis and Gonzales to hit. I can't see us going 3/3 with them as impact MLers. Not with Davis's injury issues and the red flags of the other two. Not to mention somehow trusting a 3B OPSing .660 is worth 4.5 wins.

The only thing that really bodes well has been the development of Keller, Brubaker and Crowe.
 
DocEmrickSkitters said:
I agree with this generally, but we rattle off the lower minors guys like the upper minors guys. And the upper minors guys haven't gotten it in gear. Well aside from Suwinski for a bit but he crashed back to earth epically.

So it's pretty hard to get excited about whoever Lopez, Hudson Head, Nolasco, etc. when the B-prospects at the upper levels haven't broken out. I mean, Reynolds was a B-prospect. Josh Harrison was a B-prospect. By the end of his minor league tenure Walker was a B-prospect. What gives? Individually the years of Mitchell, Castro, Marcano, Castillo, Smith-Njigba's inevitable injury, Swaggerty, etc. are fine. Collectively we needed a breakout.

If we don't get support from this cohort we need all of Cruz, Davis and Gonzales to hit. I can't see us going 3/3 with them as impact MLers. Not with Davis's injury issues and the red flags of the other two. Not to mention somehow trusting a 3B OPSing .660 is worth 4.5 wins.

The only thing that really bodes well has been the development of Keller, Brubaker and Crowe.
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I agree. For the record I’m saying the bum players were meant to bridge the gap between the upper level minors guys and major leaguers. I’m hoping we see Gonzalez and Davis in Pittsburgh next year. We might have seen them before year end if not for the injuries.
 
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