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OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: Congrats to the Houston Cheaters on their win

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Empoleon8771 said:
I think my major issue with trading Bednar is that I don't see a big enough roster issue on the team to justify trading him outside of starting pitching, but you're probably not getting a good starter option for him.

You could get a really nice young MLBer for him, like when the Cubs got Madrigal for Kimbrel. But I just don't see any position as being a big enough need to justify doing Bednar for a player like that unless it's a starter. They should have most of their roster positions for the near future sorted out. The only roster holes I see are with 1B and C, but C is only a hole until Davis comes up and 1B isn't an important enough position to trade someone like Bednar for.
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Saying that the Pirates are “all set” everywhere but 1B is quite a take.
 
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Yoshi, Newman, and VanMeter back in the lineup tonight. Go Bucs.

Yoshi or Gamel or Newman or Marisnick could hit 1.000 for the next 10 days and none would get more than some organization’s 27th ranked prospect who would end up being left off the 40 man this winter
 
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MrBrightside said:
Yoshi, Newman, and VanMeter back in the lineup tonight. Go Bucs.

Yoshi or Gamel or Newman or Marisnick could hit 1.000 for the next 10 days and none would get more than some organization’s 27th ranked prospect who would end up being left off the 40 man this winter
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I'm sure Ben Cherington is doing genius-level stuff with the lower minors though.
 
Honestly if Newman would have been healthy all year while playing like this, he likely could bring back a massive return at the deadline.

A 100 OPS+ SS who is strong defensively as a SS? That could bring back something half decent.
 
Q pretty much cruising tonight. Great to see in terms of maybe peaking the interest late. Don't think he'll P again w/us this year.

Would be nice to replicate getting MLB/or near ready P back like the Vogey trade.
 
Raise it! Bednar looked closer to normal there. Needed that pitching clinic tonight. Another 10 days or so and then we'll be rid a lot of these vets. Would be shocked if Q pitches for us again. Trade happens sooner than later IMO.
 
I don't see a whole lot w/the White Sox that makes me interested. Same story as last year, their system is not good.

There is a kid on Toronto I'd love to make a play on in a deal for Q.

Adrian Herandez, RP

Only 22 years old already P really well in AAA. The last 2 years, he's absolutely blown away guys in AA/AAA, to the tune of 142 K's in just 86 innings. 39 walks which isn't too bad and hitters BA is .139 against.

He'd represent someone who you project as an impact back end arm and at 22, already 24 innings into AAA, he's not far off from MLB.

Hayden Juenger is another realistic target, 21 year old pitched really well in AA and just got promoted to AAA.

These guys are ranked 15 and 26 on the Blue Jays top 30 on MLBpipeline. Maybe there is enough of a bidding war to get those 2 guys coming back, but that's the type of return I'd be looking for. Guys in the upper minors, with arrows pointing up.
 
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The Pirates are certainly not a good team but I feel like they're not that bad and this year has been a good progress from the last few years. They're currently on pace to be 68-94, so my goal would be for them to finish strong down the stretch and not have 90 losses on the year.

In addition, I would also be completely happy to keep Newman if you don't get a return that justifies moving him. His bat has not been nearly as anemic this year as it was in the last 2 years, and I think there is legit value there if he can end up with an OPS of at least .650. I don't think he's a guy you just cast away for a roster spot, I think you should keep him unless you get something worth it to trade him.

I think Quintana, Gamel and possibly Marisnick are no brainers to trade and you could get something halfway decent for all of them (definitely with Quintana and maybe with the other 2). They should also be looking to dump Tsutsugo, VanMeter and Stratton just for the roster spot. But beyond that, I don't think it's necessary to be that active at the deadline this year.
 
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I'm still holding the line that Quintana will have value of not burning through pitcher after pitcher (including the bullpen guys), and then hopefully you can come to a mutually beneficial reunion in the offseason.

I fully expect him to be traded, and I think there's a small chance that a bidding war gets you something more than random minor leaguers or organizational depth, but this isn't really about that. We're yanking Contreras around and he's on an innings cap. Brubaker and Keller will probably surpass their career totals and have had injuries in the past.

There's a less easy to quantify value that Quintana gets for taking the ball every 5th day for 6 innings, even if the quality isn't fully there the rest of the year. I've softened just slightly but I'm going to stick with the skeptical position about the return and hope we surprise and keep him.
 
ImporterExporter said:
Just hit another dinger.

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IMO at the top of the System we have
Tier 1: Davis and Johnson, assuming he signs
Tier 2: Chandler, Solo, Endy, Gonzales, Peguero, Burrows, Priester

And I think within Tier 2 you could make an argument for or against any of these guys. They are all such different prospects (aside from Burrows and Priester) but IMO they all converge to a similar stature.

...if I had to pick one I'd probably pick Chandler because he has two chances to click as a pitcher and a hitter. So that raises his "floor." But IDK. I could talk myself into any of the above as the answer to the #3 prospect.

Empoleon8771 said:
The Pirates are certainly not a good team but I feel like they're not that bad and this year has been a good progress from the last few years. They're currently on pace to be 68-94, so my goal would be for them to finish strong down the stretch and not have 90 losses on the year.

In addition, I would also be completely happy to keep Newman if you don't get a return that justifies moving him. His bat has not been nearly as anemic this year as it was in the last 2 years, and I think there is legit value there if he can end up with an OPS of at least .650. I don't think he's a guy you just cast away for a roster spot, I think you should keep him unless you get something worth it to trade him.

I think Quintana, Gamel and possibly Marisnick are no brainers to trade and you could get something halfway decent for all of them (definitely with Quintana and maybe with the other 2). They should also be looking to dump Tsutsugo, VanMeter and Stratton just for the roster spot. But beyond that, I don't think it's necessary to be that active at the deadline this year.
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What is the progress really in, though? We thought - I guess speaking for myself but also the general consensus - that we were going to have Cruz and 1-2 other guys step up as position player regulars. IMO that hasn't happened, either on the Cruz or the "other guys" front. Maybe if Suwinski comes back.

Instead where we've actually seen progress is with the pitching staff and improved performances from Brubaker, Keller and Crowe. With generally good results from Thompson.
That's progress I guess, and it is an endorsement for Marin...but are the 4 names I mentioned above really going to lead us to anywhere?

Cruz has an OBP of .241. While the high minors prospects of Castillo, Suwinski, Mitchell, Swaggerty, Marcano, Castro and Madris have all come up here. IMO only Suwinski and Castillo earn a passing grade for their performances up here, and Suwinski was the only one worthy of excitement really. That's why it was a moment of real reflection when he was sent down. What has really been accomplished at the ML level this year?

If we're not going to get 2+ regulars from the list above, IMO there is little path to a playoff team from here until 2025. Individually it's been okay but holistically the results have not been acceptable. 2 guys shoulda popped and stayed that way.

I agree with you on Newman tho. At this point, just keep him.
 
Hard to see a lot of real meaningful progress. A lot of guys that matter for the future - Hayes, Cruz, Swaggerty, Gonzales, Davis, Marcano - have either had injuries or regressed or both (or simply have disappointed). Winning 67 games instead did 61 on the backs of guys who aren’t going to be around long term isn’t real progress.
 
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DocEmrickSkitters said:
IMO at the top of the System we have
Tier 1: Davis and Johnson, assuming he signs
Tier 2: Chandler, Solo, Endy, Gonzales, Peguero, Burrows, Priester

And I think within Tier 2 you could make an argument for or against any of these guys. They are all such different prospects (aside from Burrows and Priester) but IMO they all converge to a similar stature.

...if I had to pick one I'd probably pick Chandler because he has two chances to click as a pitcher and a hitter. So that raises his "floor." But IDK. I could talk myself into any of the above as the answer to the #3 prospect.


What is the progress really in, though? We thought - I guess speaking for myself but also the general consensus - that we were going to have Cruz and 1-2 other guys step up as position player regulars. IMO that hasn't happened, either on the Cruz or the "other guys" front. Maybe if Suwinski comes back.

Instead where we've actually seen progress is with the pitching staff and improved performances from Brubaker, Keller and Crowe. With generally good results from Thompson.
That's progress I guess, and it is an endorsement for Marin...but are the 4 names I mentioned above really going to lead us to anywhere?

Cruz has an OBP of .241. While the high minors prospects of Castillo, Suwinski, Mitchell, Swaggerty, Marcano, Castro and Madris have all come up here. IMO only Suwinski and Castillo earn a passing grade for their performances up here, and Suwinski was the only one worthy of excitement really. That's why it was a moment of real reflection when he was sent down. What has really been accomplished at the ML level this year?

If we're not going to get 2+ regulars from the list above, IMO there is little path to a playoff team from here until 2025. Individually it's been okay but holistically the results have not been acceptable. 2 guys shoulda popped and stayed that way.

I agree with you on Newman tho. At this point, just keep him.
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We need to exercise patience with Cruz. We all see the tools for him to be an elite player but that’s just what they are…tools. It’s going to take time for him to adjust to major league pitching.

The one im more worried about is Hayes. It just seems like he’s destined to be a slap hitter with a really good glove. I love his defense but when you lack a power bat first baseman or corner outfielder, it really drags down the lineup to have your third baseman offer little to no power. Not to mention he’s usually so opposite field conscious that teams can bust him inside
 
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