Player Discussion Rafaël Harvey-Pinard

[Leon Lucius Black]

You don’t sign guys like that long-term

Giving a 24 year old who plays a grinding style a longer term deal isn't an issue, especially if you can keep the cap hit lower. The issue is giving that type of player a longer term deal when they are in their late 20's and already showing signs of wearing down.

Bergevin did a great job getting Gallagher/Byron on excellent deals in their early/mid 20s. He then f***ed it all up when he gave them their next deals when they were older, significantly less productive and hurt all the time.

 

[jfm133]

So you would not have signed Gallagher to his six years contract at 3.75 M$ while he was 23? RHP is at the beginning of his peak physical capacity as a hockey player. If he wants to sign a five years contrats at around 3 M$ per year you jump on it. The guy is for real. You know he will not sit on a five year contract. He is able to put up points on any line and he is not known as an injury prone player. He played full, or almost full seasons in his last 6 years.

 

[Tyson]

So you would not have signed Gallagher to his six years contract at 3.75 M$ while he was 23? RHP is at the beginning of his peak physical capacity as a hockey player. If he wants to sign a five years contrats at around 3 M$ per year you jump on it. The guy is for real. You know he will not sit on a five year contract. He is able to put up points on any line and he is not known as an injury prone player. He played full, or almost full seasons in his last 6 years.

You are willing to sign a kid with less than 20 NHL games for 5y x 3m?
Why would you do that?

 

[Sorinth]

Assuming he finishes the year playing well I would expect a Rem Pitlick type deal.

 

[jfm133]

Because if you sign him one year 1.2 M$, it will end up costing you more. Look at Yanni Gourde, Tampa waited for the full breakout season, and they ended up giving him the next year 31 M$ for six years. HuGo need to make an evaluation here, and go with it, like they did with Kirby Dach. If you think RHP is a fluke, OK, don't give him a five year deal. Lowball him on a two years deal, but I think you will have to pay him 5 M$ per year after that for six years.

So, 2 x 1 MS + 6 x 5 MS= 32 M$ for 8 years and he is 32 years old at the end of it and hard to trade if needed in the second contract.

or 5 x 3 M$= 15 M$ for 5 years and he is 29 at the end of it and easy to trade if needed during the whole of his contract.

It's an evaluation HuGo will need to make. Do a Gallagher (6 x 3.75 M$) or a Danault (3 x 3M$) when they were around that age.

You are willing to sign a kid with less than 20 NHL games for 5y x 3m?
Why would you do that?

Pitlick is not in the same category. RHP has a complete two way game.

Assuming he finishes the year playing well I would expect a Rem Pitlick type deal.

 

[BLNY]

Not sure if it's been mentioned already, but Arpon Basu had some good things to say during one of the intermissions of the Flyers game. RHP has the ability to play with skilled players. People with more skill than him. He works to make things easier for them and help them elevate their game (paraphrase). I think that's accurate.

I don't know how much we're going to get from Gallagher going forward, but I think RHP could provide some of those attributes.

 

[Retired]

Because if you sign him one year 1.2 M$, it will end up costing you more. Look at Yanni Gourde, Tampa waited for the full breakout season, and they ended up giving him the next year 31 M$ for six years. HuGo need to make an evaluation here, and go with it, like they did with Kirby Dach. If you think RHP is a fluke, OK, don't give him a five year deal. Lowball him on a two years deal, but I think you will have to pay him 5 M$ per year after that for six years.

So, 2 x 1 MS + 6 x 5 MS= 32 M$ for 8 years and he is 32 years old at the end of it and hard to trade if needed in the second contract.

or 5 x 3 M$= 15 M$ for 5 years and he is 29 at the end of it and easy to trade if needed during the whole of his contract.

It's an evaluation HuGo will need to make. Do a Gallagher (6 x 3.75 M$) or a Danault (3 x 3M$) when they were around that age.



Pitlick is not in the same category. RHP has a complete two way game.

I feel RHP worth 5m$x 6 years assumes a few things.

 

[BargainBinSpecial]

I feel RHP worth 5m$x 6 years assumes a few things.

We've seen Drouin & DD get similar deals and then sit on the pile of money.

 

[BaseballCoach]

I feel RHP worth 5m$x 6 years assumes a few things.

RHP is worth a 2-3 year deal at fairly low money. The shooting percentqage is unsustainable. He is not going to produce more per game in the long run at the NHL level than the AHL.

He is not in our top 6 long term, and does not warrant a long deal.

I'm even ok with a one-year deal, and take my chances at re-signing him each year. Worth more? Pay more, no problem. If we did that with every bottom five forward, we might pay more for the one guy who merits it with sustained good play, and save a heck of a lot of money on the four who turn out average or weak..

 

[themilosh]

So you would not have signed Gallagher to his six years contract at 3.75 M$ while he was 23? RHP is at the beginning of his peak physical capacity as a hockey player. If he wants to sign a five years contrats at around 3 M$ per year you jump on it. The guy is for real. You know he will not sit on a five year contract. He is able to put up points on any line and he is not known as an injury prone player. He played full, or almost full seasons in his last 6 years.

i haven't been able to watch him play much - is he the real deal - or has he just had a Chris Kontos start? 9G in 11 playoff games.

 

[HuGort]

RHP going to play long time in NHL. He has the hockey smarts. Bottom six mostly but can play him up in lineup in pinch. Should be poor man's Lekhonen someday. I meant that in compliment way

With all that caproom coming off this summer. RHP Makes league minimum. If Habs can't trade for Dubois this summer. Or any other big name. Canadiens may want to rent caproom out again. gain 2 more first picks, they have around 13 million extra.. Give RPH a long look, full season. Same with Ylonen. There is something there, but too small sample size for me to tell for sure.

 

[CAUFIELD]

RHP will have no leverage. Not enough data. Small and looks more suited for 3rd or 4th line.

I would offer him the Byron special (1st deal). 3y*1,1m$.

 

[Sorinth]

Because if you sign him one year 1.2 M$, it will end up costing you more. Look at Yanni Gourde, Tampa waited for the full breakout season, and they ended up giving him the next year 31 M$ for six years. HuGo need to make an evaluation here, and go with it, like they did with Kirby Dach. If you think RHP is a fluke, OK, don't give him a five year deal. Lowball him on a two years deal, but I think you will have to pay him 5 M$ per year after that for six years.

So, 2 x 1 MS + 6 x 5 MS= 32 M$ for 8 years and he is 32 years old at the end of it and hard to trade if needed in the second contract.

or 5 x 3 M$= 15 M$ for 5 years and he is 29 at the end of it and easy to trade if needed during the whole of his contract.

It's an evaluation HuGo will need to make. Do a Gallagher (6 x 3.75 M$) or a Danault (3 x 3M$) when they were around that age.



Pitlick is not in the same category. RHP has a complete two way game.

There's no downside to paying a player what they deserve. If RHP plays well enough over the next couple years to deserve 5m then that's a win for us.

There is however a pretty big risk that a guy with 20 odd games won't be able to continue his success. Whether it's Pitlick last year or going back a few years when Jordan Weal came up and got 10 points in 16 games, or Daniel Carr, or Andrighetto after being traded to Colorado and putting up 16 points in 19 games, or Smith-Pelly after being sent to NJ. There's a long history of players looking like future studs who are out of the league within a couple years. If you make it a habit to give young guys with less then half a season long term contracts in the hopes of ending up with a bargain you will get burned sooner rather then later, and that is a much worse outcome then being forced to give a good player the money they deserve.

 

[BaseballCoach]

So you would not have signed Gallagher to his six years contract at 3.75 M$ while he was 23? RHP is at the beginning of his peak physical capacity as a hockey player. If he wants to sign a five years contrats at around 3 M$ per year you jump on it. The guy is for real. You know he will not sit on a five year contract. He is able to put up points on any line and he is not known as an injury prone player. He played full, or almost full seasons in his last 6 years.

Gallagher 6 year extension came when he had scored 50 goals in his first 164 games, had been a runner up for the Calder Trophy and scored 11 points in the 17 game playoff run to the 2014 Conference Finals.

He was 22 when he signed the deal and it ran until he was 28. The year the contract kicked in, Gallagher was made an Alternate Captain.

RHP is 24, and has played 19 NHL games, with 8 goals, of which 5 came in a 5 game stretch, and he is 3/14 otherwise. He is playing way more minutes than he would play if we had a normal amount of injuries, and that's without considering his role on a contending team, which would probably be 4th liner.

Patience.

Bridge deal one to three years followed by a closer to fair market value deal once the market value is based on a longer sample. The player might want fewer years and to bet on himself, and no problem if that is the case.

If he turns out to become a consistent 40 or 50 point player, I have no issue paying him at that time. We don't need to gamble on small mid-twenties players with 19 games under their belt. Those gambles will fail more often than work.

 

[Habs Icing]

You are willing to sign a kid with less than 20 NHL games for 5y x 3m?
Why would you do that?

It was either that or Russian Roulette.

 

[Michoulicious]

I'd give him the Rem Pitlick deal. Not more.

24 y old, bottom 6 forward that was able to elevate his play in a top 6 role. Nice story, excellent pick. He looks like he'll carve out an NHL career.

You don't give 5+ years deal to those players, especially not 3 millions+.

Lehkonen did not get that and he had a way better pedigree. Ended well, we traded him for a young RD with size that could be a core piece. I'd certainly give Barron 5y at 3+ millions. Not RHP.

Our future young forwards are filled with smaller players (Caufield, Farrell, Mesar, even Beck). Matthew Wood anyone?

 

[Tuggy]

Yes, the Pitlick deal is exactly what I would do.

2 years, 1.1M per.

Then you go from there. I think that's pretty fair for both sides to be honest.

 

[jfm133]

It all comes down to evaluation and it's what Hughes and Gorton are paid to do. They have all that is needed to do a proper evaluation and the NHL is a salary cap league in which you need to make early evaluations on some players in order to have them on reasonable contracts for more than a couple of years. On the player side, he has to chose between securing his financial future, or try to extract every possible dollar. Gallagher and Pacioretty chose to secure their financial future and were able to add much more to that after.

My point with RHP is that he is a steady, versatile and reliable player, sound defensively and not only a garbage goal scorer offensively. He has real offensive talent as a passer and goal scorer. I see a 50 points guy for the next 5 years and a very good example to have on a team. Hard to be lazy when you play with him. They always talk about team culture. He is the type of players to help build a work ethic culture. Nothing was given to him, he earned everything.

 

[DinosaurBones]

He wont make more than (barely close to) Evans' contract.
Id expect 2 years at $1M (same as Pit) or 1 year cause he wants to prove more.
Either way, the kids a player and he'll be a part of the F group moving forward for low money. One of the better picks of the Berg era. Cant dislike players like this.

 

[Draft]

He's played 15 games...

Sure, he's looked solid and has been a nice story this year. However, this is an incredibly small sample size and it's extremely unlikely that we see him given the same opportunities in the top-6 or matching the same 36.4% shooting percentage next year. Unless he continues to improve and evens out his shooting percentage over the next twenty games, he's shown he can probably hang as a bottom line or 13th forward - nothing more than that.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

RHP will have no leverage. Not enough data. Small and looks more suited for 3rd or 4th line.

I would offer him the Byron special (1st deal). 3y*1,1m$.

Ah yes the EA NHL special. Love it! Hope we can get him with some nice term under 1.5, would be awesome

Call me crazy but I want RHP and Ylonen in our bottom 6/3rd line going forward. Ylonen might be a bit soft tho

 

[CAUFIELD]

Ah yes the EA NHL special. Love it! Hope we can get him with some nice term under 1.5, would be awesome

Call me crazy but I want RHP and Ylonen in our bottom 6/3rd line going forward. Ylonen might be a bit soft tho

Ylonen showed nice tools. But he better starts to put everything together soon , because we have a lot of good wingers in the pipeline.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Ylonen showed nice tools. But he better starts to put everything together soon , because we have a lot of good wingers in the pipeline.

Yeah Kidney Farell Heineman Roy are all gunning for that spot eventually

 

[Treb]

Signing him to a big deal would be a mistake. He's playing minutes he may never see again in his career. Sign a 1-way 1 year deal and go from there.

 

[CAUFIELD]

Yeah Kidney Farell Heineman Roy are all gunning for that spot eventually

Especially the last 3 you named .

We also have Caufield , Anderson , Slafkovsky , Dach (? Or C), 2023 1st (might be a W again), etc