Race to the bottom - Rebuild thread #2.

[King Mapes]

Penguins, Blues, Kings, Bruins say hi.

Those teams didn't lose to get good, though, aside from Pens who got lucky. Best example is Chicago (or Colorado). But there's also teams like Oilers and Panthers. This draft is weak so if we go "full out suck", I hope it's next year. McDavid will be something to watch. Imagine him sand Kessel

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

Those teams didn't lose to get good, though, aside from Pens who got lucky. Best example is Chicago (or Colorado). But there's also teams like Oilers and Panthers. This draft is weak so if we go "full out suck", I hope it's next year. McDavid will be something to watch. Imagine him sand Kessel

Chicago getting Kane and Toews helped quite a bit although thats not the point

All those teams drafted very well while the Leafs have never drafted well (for multiple seasons). Thats the difference. And because of that, we have had to look outside the organization far too many times

 

[Mojo19]

I think the biggest problem with this team right now is depth.
Yes there are injuries, but only to a few non-elite players. Imagine where we'd be if it was Kessel and JVR that went down instead of Bolland and Bozak?



We should have guys that can step in and keep providing wins...

 

[DaveT83*]

And your plan is....to dismantle and tank? now? with a ton of young players? to get those 2 guys?

Drafting costs nothing. Zero. You can keep the entire roster if you want - all your favourite losers. But we need a 1C and a 1D ... regardless of your philosophy this is a universal truth that everyone should agree on.


So would you like to trade Reilly, Gardner, Kadri, 1sts, 2nds and anyone else in system of value to obtain those said 1C + 1D


Or would you rather just suck it up and accept the fact that this team isn't a contender for another year or two. Instead of putting bandaid solutions on your problems year after year.


This stick with the "status quo" plan is the stupidest thing I have ever heard in my life after a decade of it not working out.

 

[darrylsittler27]

Too late for a rebuild now.

In order to rebuild you have to truly tank and pick in the top 3. With the likes of Kessel,JVR,Bolland,Phaneuff,Kadri and the signing of Clarkson we have gone win soon. While another top5 pick would be nice this seems a weak draft and us finishing that low improbable.

Nonnis will have to do his job and engineer some trades, the team needs a wakeup call and a tune up but not a total rebuild. We also need to stop trading away picks and years of wasting them is now showing in our depth.

Burke trades:A
free agents : F
Drafting while finishing bottom 5 : D

 

[exporta]

And you're plan to acquire these 2 are? You're paying for them with? Who's any good that teams are willing to trade?

While I agree, that the two pieces we need to grad are likely the hardest to acquire. That being said, someone like Girardi may come available if the Rangers don't want to meet his demands/out of it and willing to sell him off.

In terms of Centres, it is a little more difficult. You have to remember that Kadri is really only in his first full season. It's not unrealistic to think he has another gear. Holland could also develop into a solid #2. Also there are other options available. At some point Colorado is going to have to make decisions on Stastny or O'Reilly. Philadelphia may look to move a centre for help elsewhere. I am not saying any of these are a sure thing, but there will be players available.

In terms of personnel, we are pretty damn close to being there, no need to strip this team. We just need to keep working at systems and eliminating mistakes. A coaching change may need to be in the works, but not quite yet.

 

[Crispy Crust]

We don't need a rebuild, but we need alot of things.

1) A new coach
2) Replace Bozak with an actual top 6C
3) A new stay at home top 4 D
4) Get rid of Mark Fraser and Paul Ranger

A rebuilding team doesn't take the ECF Boston bruins to game 7 overtime

New GM as well.

 

[DaveT83*]

While I agree, that the two pieces we need to grad are likely the hardest to acquire. That being said, someone like Girardi may come available if the Rangers don't want to meet his demands/out of it and willing to sell him off.

In terms of Centres, it is a little more difficult. You have to remember that Kadri is really only in his first full season. It's not unrealistic to think he has another gear. Holland could also develop into a solid #2. Also there are other options available. At some point Colorado is going to have to make decisions on Stastny or O'Reilly. Philadelphia may look to move a centre for help elsewhere. I am not saying any of these are a sure thing, but there will be players available.

In terms of personnel, we are pretty damn close to being there, no need to strip this team. We just need to keep working at systems and eliminating mistakes. A coaching change may need to be in the works, but not quite yet.

Your plan makes no sense at all. From a business stand point. You never want to be a position where you have to depend on others.

Drafting a C Top 5 for FREE
Drafting a D Top 5 for FREE

I'm not interested in trading away anymore futures - to help facilitate the losing ways of Phil Kessel and Dion Phaneuf. 6 straight years this has happened. Its got to end.


The core of this team is what needs to be changed. Coaches, 3rd liners, 7th defence man will make no difference to the results. Just spinning wheels.

 

[Faltorvo]

Those teams didn't lose to get good, though, aside from Pens who got lucky. Best example is Chicago (or Colorado). But there's also teams like Oilers and Panthers. This draft is weak so if we go "full out suck", I hope it's next year. McDavid will be something to watch. Imagine him sand Kessel

Your so full of sht.

LA not a tank job team?

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Chicago getting Kane and Toews helped quite a bit although thats not the point

All those teams drafted very well while the Leafs have never drafted well (for multiple seasons). Thats the difference. And because of that, we have had to look outside the organization far too many times

The Bruins had 4 self drafted regulars on their Cup winner and their biggest contributors by far were not self drafted. Today they represent a team that is well built through drafting, though many of their key cogs remain non-drafted.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

We probably possess a top 5 in the NHL group of wingers. Definitely top 10.

We probably possess one of the better 2-4 centre combos in the league.

We do possess the best goalie tandem in the league.

Work the math from there.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Your so full of sht.

LA not a tank job team?

I'm not sure how you define tanking but one top 10 self drafted pick on your team doesn't sound like the traditional definition. If that's what they were trying to do they failed.

 

[Faltorvo]

I'm not sure how you define tanking but one top 10 self drafted pick on your team doesn't sound like the traditional definition. If that's what they were trying to do they failed.

So what you are trying to say is that the value in Schenn means nothing because he was traded?

You chose to put blinders on that rich is there because they had the value of Schenn?

Kopi 11th, Brown 13th.

Is JVR not here because we got LS from a tanked season?

 

[Byron Bitz]

The leafs tonight, dominating the best team in the league. How could they possibly tank with players like kessel, phaneuf, JVR, kadri, lupus, gardener, bernier....?

 

[TeamBester]

The leafs tonight, dominating the best team in the league. How could they possibly tank with players like kessel, phaneuf, JVR, kadri, lupus, gardener, bernier....?

In a couple years this team will be a powerhouse. Ignore the fair weather fans, they were jumping on the wagon last year, they will again.

 

[TMLegend]

In a couple years this team will be a powerhouse. Ignore the fair weather fans, they were jumping on the wagon last year, they will again.

I guess "real fans" are blind homers who can't see the problems this team has and instead rely on a single win against cup contending team to gauge how good they are.

I bet they're the same fans who said the Leafs were the best team in the east in October.

 

[Pyromaniac3]

I guess "real fans" are blind homers who can't see the problems this team has and instead rely on a single win against cup contending team to gauge how good they are.

I bet they're the same fans who said the Leafs were the best team in the east in October.

The problems aren't deep enough that we hit the reset button. Personally I think getting a top 4 defender who can play tough minutes is all we need to be a powerhouse. Our offense and goaltending is amazing, it's just that we rely on Phaneuf-Gunnarsson pairing a bit too much which is the problem. Under the radar players like Hjalmarsson (pretty sure spelling is wrong), Bogosian, Regehr, Scuderi, etc is what the team needs.

 

[Byron Bitz]

I guess "real fans" are blind homers who can't see the problems this team has and instead rely on a single win against cup contending team to gauge how good they are.

I bet they're the same fans who said the Leafs were the best team in the east in October.

no ones claiming the leafs don't have holes to fix, but how are we supposed to tank when there are a bunch of teams that are way worse than us? there are other ways to improve this team.

 

[King Mapes]

Your so full of sht.

LA not a tank job team?

Uh, no. Explain how they tanked?

Who's full of what now?

 

[King Mapes]

Chicago getting Kane and Toews helped quite a bit although thats not the point

All those teams drafted very well while the Leafs have never drafted well (for multiple seasons). Thats the difference. And because of that, we have had to look outside the organization far too many times

I thought he was saying those teams DID tank. If saying they didn't, I'd definitely disagree on Hawks. 2 of their most important guys were top 3 picks. Mind you, they didn't do a Pens tank for 4 years but still. LA, Bruins and St Louis have drafted and traded very well. Blues traded for Halak and Steen and got them very cheap. Rask for Boston, Carter and Richards for LA. All those guys are key reasons to their success.

 

[TeamBester]

I guess "real fans" are blind homers who can't see the problems this team has and instead rely on a single win against cup contending team to gauge how good they are.

I bet they're the same fans who said the Leafs were the best team in the east in October.

Na its not one game for me. Its more about letting this young group develop together and having some patience through thick and thin. I knew what they were before the season started.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

So what you are trying to say is that the value in Schenn means nothing because he was traded?

You chose to put blinders on that rich is there because they had the value of Schenn?

Kopi 11th, Brown 13th.

Is JVR not here because we got LS from a tanked season?

Most people I know define tanking as intentionally finishing low, trying to grab the highest possible picks for several years and then having all these low picks be the core to their Cup win. That's the whole argument. Even if you want to count Schenn, the guy with all of 9 NHL games who spent the next several seasons yo-yoing between the NHL and minor leagues, he'll remain inconsistent with the tank argument as he was A) not a core cog; B) I'm told tanking teams hang on to these pieces they worked so hard to land. So what's your argument: they were so close to the Cup it made sense to trade him then? If that's the case, you're just
arguing that the bulk of their team (all but one selected outside the top 10) was already in place. I can't think of too many teams that tank when they are on the verge of Cup calibre? Worth noting as well that most of the self drafted LA picks were 5 to 9 years post draft.

I'm not sure how you consider 11th and 13th picks "tanking" given it means you just barely missed the playoffs? You're certainly closer to the playoffs than a top 5 pick.

I'm also really not sure what your point is with JVR? He's here because we made a trade.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

I guess "real fans" are blind homers who can't see the problems this team has and instead rely on a single win against cup contending team to gauge how good they are.

I bet they're the same fans who said the Leafs were the best team in the east in October.

I would think "real fans" have no problems identifying what the strengths and weaknesses are and don't focus on individual games. See my post above:

We probably possess a top 5 in the NHL group of wingers. Definitely top 10.

We probably possess one of the better 2-4 centre combos in the league.

We do possess the best goalie tandem in the league.

Work the math from there.

What's missing in there? True #1 C and some fixing on the D side, mainly alongside Phaneuf. I'm actually hoping Percy is that fix.

People need to keep in mind there's a lot of youth in that lineup too.

 

[Morbo]

Drafting costs nothing. Zero. You can keep the entire roster if you want - all your favourite losers. But we need a 1C and a 1D ... regardless of your philosophy this is a universal truth that everyone should agree on.


So would you like to trade Reilly, Gardner, Kadri, 1sts, 2nds and anyone else in system of value to obtain those said 1C + 1D


Or would you rather just suck it up and accept the fact that this team isn't a contender for another year or two. Instead of putting bandaid solutions on your problems year after year.


This stick with the "status quo" plan is the stupidest thing I have ever heard in my life after a decade of it not working out.

So you hate losing and losing ways...but you want the team to lose so much that they can pick in the top 5 multiple times. That doesn't make a lot of sense.

You don't like Dion Phaneuf and Phil Kessel, which is fine. But to think that a young team with a bunch of 1st round picks already in the lineup is going tank it to replace two players of that calibre and age is, frankly, insane. If those two were all they had and the rest was garbage, I would probably agree it would make sense to explore moving/replacing them. However this is clearly not the case, with guys like JVR Kadri Gardiner Rielly etc already performing well at the NHL level and on an upward track.

You must have been so upset they made the playoffs last season.

Don't despair though, I can think of a team that you will be extremely happy following -- the Edmonton Oilers. Every year they lose a lot and draft a player in the top 5 FOR FREE. It's absolutely perfect for you. Hell, this very season they're on track to do the exact same thing again, they're 28th. Just think of the prospect they'll be able to draft....

 

[The Caveman]

You do not need top 5 picks. Boston has been good knowing when to cut the chord on players, getting draft picks, and then drafting and developing well. Krejci (2nd round), Lucic (50th overall), Seidenberg (6th round, trade with Fla), bergeron (45th)

I could go on and on. Good drafting, good trades and proper development. Oh, and a winning culture.

Losing is for losers.