Race to the bottom - Rebuild thread #2.

[SnazzyNazzy]

Ooohhh, I get it.

This is a joke thread, good stuff! #tanknation!

 

[blueberrie]

Delusions of draft picks. The HF classic.

Draft schamft has worked so well for the Leafs before right?

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

Pending UFA who's 31 meaning he's a win now type of player (and who will expect to get paid top dollar for what he brings to the team).

Looking at other PK specialists like Betts, Pahlsson, Smithson, Steckel and how quickly they become not even NHL caliber players well before their 35th bday I wouldn't count on McClement having more than a few years left.

His hands already aren't NHL caliber.

St. Louis was able to move on from. Colorado was able to move on from him. And the Leafs can move on from him and the picks we'd get for him that will be multi year assets our more important.

Colorado wanted him back and their PK tanked after he left (was crap before he got there too). St.Louis had a middle-of-the-pack PK and McClement turned it into the league's best. Make no mistake, both of these teams still wish they had McClement but one lost him to FA and the other couldn't fit him under an internal cap.

 

[blue82]

yea rebuild the boats that we destroyed last season so that we can destoy them again this year

 

[DaveT83*]

IMO McClement is the most important C we have on this team.

 

[DaveT83*]

Leaf Homers believe that every year we are 1-2 pieces away from being a cup contender.

They have no idea how to acquire these pieces - we usually miss the playoffs - and miss drafting high. So were always stuck in hockey purgatory.

Then they have the gull to come on here and criticize people who think its time for a change. If even for changes sack.

 

[Gary Nylund]

The Leafs PK is now one of the worst in the NHL. This seems to conflict a bit with the notion that McClement's contribution is invaluable. Speed is also a big part of what makes a good PK and McClement isn't getting any younger so giving him a raise to retain his services doesn't seem like the sensible move to me at this point.

I totally agree with giving up on winning now and retooling (no not tanking) with an eye to contending say 3 years down the line or so. McClement doesn't fit with that strategy and that's another reason I'm not anxious to resign him. I suspect Nonis is trying to win now though so ...

 

[Gary Nylund]

imo mcclement is the most important c we have on this team.

lol.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

Colorado wanted him back and their PK tanked after he left (was crap before he got there too). St.Louis had a middle-of-the-pack PK and McClement turned it into the league's best. Make no mistake, both of these teams still wish they had McClement but one lost him to FA and the other couldn't fit him under an internal cap.

If we decide to retool to be a contender in 2 or 3 years, McClement will be exiting his prime and might not even be an NHL caliber player at that point (just like many other players of his type who were out of the NHL well before their 35th bday).

Vast majority of players start fading in their early to mid 30s and McClement will be no different.

Gaining additional picks would be more important if that is the direction the team took. But this direction is unlikely cause management seems unwilling to go through the pain of taking a step back to eventually take a giant step forward (like LA did).

 

[Judas Tavares]

If McClement wants the same money, I want him back. Even if has regressed offensively, he still does enough to make 1.5. He again would be valuable in the playoffs, winning a couple draws go a long way, aka if we had Bozak in game 7 to take some heat off McClement, we are in round 2, no question.

Here is the faceoff report for game 7 last year.

http://www.nhl.com/scores/htmlreports/20122013/FC030147.HTM

In summary, we took 26 faceoffs in the defensive zone that game, winning 10 of them. Grabovski (1/5), Kadri (1/2), Komarov (1/1) Colborne (0/2), Kulemin (0/1) and McClement (7/15)

So McClement took 58% of the defensive draws and also won 70% of the total draws the team actually won in the defensive zone.

People are enamored by goals and assists (NHL 14?) but this goes such a long way, its not even funny. Bozak could have taken the heat off McClement in this game and/or prevented others from taking draws.

You need guys you can trust to win draws and play well defensively, especially if they provide little offence. Less ballerinas, more warriors, yes I am taking a clear shot at a departed player.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

If McClement wants the same money, I want him back. Even if has regressed offensively, he still does enough to make 1.5. He again would be valuable in the playoffs, winning a couple draws go a long way, aka if we had Bozak in game 7 to take some heat off McClement, we are in round 2, no question.

Here is the faceoff report for game 7 last year.

http://www.nhl.com/scores/htmlreports/20122013/FC030147.HTM

In summary, we took 26 faceoffs in the defensive zone that game, winning 10 of them. Grabovski (1/5), Kadri (1/2), Komarov (1/1) Colborne (0/2), Kulemin (0/1) and McClement (7/15)

So McClement took 58% of the defensive draws and also won 70% of the total draws the team actually won in the defensive zone.

People are enamored by goals and assists (NHL 14?) but this goes such a long way, its not even funny. Bozak could have taken the heat off McClement in this game and/or prevented others from taking draws.

You need guys you can trust to win draws and play well defensively, especially if they provide little offence. Less ballerinas, more warriors, yes I am taking a clear shot at a departed player.

We're using one game to assess his value now?

UFAs in Fiddler, Goc, Boyle, Handzus, Moore, Mitchell, Vitale are all options to replace him.

+

Most importantly we'd have the extra picks we got from dealing McClement.

 

[Baarle*]

You realize you'd get a third rounder, maybe a second for Mcclement at the deadline right? And considering we aren't very good at drafting I'd rather keep him

 

[TMLegend]

We're using one game to assess his value now?

UFAs in Fiddler, Goc, Boyle, Handzus, Moore, Mitchell, Vitale are all options to replace him.

+

Most importantly we'd have the extra picks we got from dealing McClement.

Marcel Goc would great. An ideal 3rd liner imo. Would love Mitchell as well, great tenacity on the puck and has nice speed.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

You realize you'd get a third rounder, maybe a second for Mcclement at the deadline right? And considering we aren't very good at drafting I'd rather keep him

You do realize Bolland was acquired for 2 2nds + a 4th OR Bernier was acquired with a 2nd being an important piece in the deal so if we a 2nd that means we'd be about half way to having the pieces to deal for another one of these players.

It's about building up assets at their peak value (trade deadline) when teams overpay every single year in a non-contending year.

The Leafs simply need to stock up on assets other teams desire or overload on drafting now so we can trade picks in later drafts to eventually be the top bidders on when a high end center (Seguin, Richard, Carter, Staal) or Dman hit the trade market (JayBo).

Every piece helps!

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Whether I think they should rebuild or not, being 5 pts ahead of 9th should not excuse a team from rebuilding

The Toronto Raptors are a half game back from leading the division and their GM is trying to dismantle their team

That's quaint though it's probably worth noting that if you even the games played by league, one team would be 5 wins shy of leading the conference, the other 16.

 

[Vexed]

Whether I think they should rebuild or not, being 5 pts ahead of 9th should not excuse a team from rebuilding

The Toronto Raptors are a half game back from leading the division and their GM is trying to dismantle their team

In another thread we can discuss how these two topics are completely different between the NBA and NHL.. that is if you know enough about the NBA

 

[Baarle*]

You do realize Bolland was acquired for 2 2nds + a 4th OR Bernier was acquired with a 2nd being an important piece in the deal so if we a 2nd that means we'd be about half way to having the pieces to deal for another one of these players.

It's about building up assets at their peak value (trade deadline) when teams overpay every single year in a non-contending year.

The Leafs simply need to stock up on assets other teams desire or overload on drafting now so we can trade picks in later drafts to eventually be the top bidders on when a high end center (Seguin, Richard, Carter, Staal) or Dman hit the trade market (JayBo).

Every piece helps!

So trade Mcclement for assets that can be used to trade for future Mcclements?

 

[blueberrie]

You realize you'd get a third rounder, maybe a second for Mcclement at the deadline right? And considering we aren't very good at drafting I'd rather keep him

I'm sure if we had more picks our conversion rate would go up. We're never going to find a Weber, Subban, Letang, Bergeron, Krejci, Lucic, Keith, Eriksson, Backes, Dubinsky, Stepan, O'Rielly, Vlasic, Faulk non-1st round steal if we don't bother to try.

I think someone mentioned in the past 5 years, we've had 34 draft picks out of the 35 we get from the league. That would make more sense if we haven't been a basement dweller in those years and actually had success to show for our low amount of draft picks.

 

[dubey]

Not necessarily a tank thread, but this team hasn't been good this season at all.

The core of this team is flawed in my opinion.

The forward group is built around a productive, but soft one-dimensional winger who has a tendency to disappear when the games get physical and tight.

There's no #1C, With absolutely no one coming in the pipeline who will be able to fill the void down the road.

The defense is built around Dion Phaneuf, who may be a top pairing guy, albeit not a true #1 in my opinion. His leadership has often been questioned throughout his career and while he does an admirable job for the leafs, he isn't a true workhorse who you can rely on for 25 minutes or more a night and when he does play that much, there's a noticeable drop off in his play.

The only reason the team has even a somewhat respectable record is because of the goalies and it's only a matter of time before they get worn out and fall back down to earth.

It's time to sell high on our assets and capitalize on Phaneuf, Kessel, Raymond, etc having strong starts ti the season and accelerate the process a bit.

You will have to start watching another team if you want to see this happen

 

[Judas Tavares]

Glass half full: Played well vs. San Jose, L.A., Chicago, Pittsburgh. Only Boston and St. Louis were really bad.

 

[ShLou Foot]

Glass half full: Played well vs. San Jose, L.A., Chicago, Pittsburgh. Only Boston and St. Louis were really bad.

Add tonite vs Pitts

 

[jamesdolla]

Whether I think they should rebuild or not, being 5 pts ahead of 9th should not excuse a team from rebuilding

The Toronto Raptors are a half game back from leading the division and their GM is trying to dismantle their team

Ujiri is a top GM in the league. Raptors are in good hands. Tim needs to find that type of GM for the Leafs.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

So trade Mcclement for assets that can be used to trade for future Mcclements?

Aim a little higher! The Leafs simply need to build up assets right now!

Ask yourself what exactly is McClement helping us win right now? Being a playoff bubble team? Than ask yourself where his game will be going over the next year or two or 3 and you'll see he's likely to be out of the league in just a few short seasons.

Futures are more important than bringing back McClement and we can sign someone like Moore, Goc, Fiddler, Winnik, Boyle, Mitchell, Handzus in the off-season.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

I'm sure if we had more picks our conversion rate would go up. We're never going to find a Weber, Subban, Letang, Bergeron, Krejci, Lucic, Keith, Eriksson, Backes, Dubinsky, Stepan, O'Rielly, Vlasic, Faulk non-1st round steal if we don't bother to try.

I think someone mentioned in the past 5 years, we've had 34 draft picks out of the 35 we get from the league. That would make more sense if we haven't been a basement dweller in those years and actually had success to show for our low amount of draft picks.

Even if you only get a few middle 6ers those player could be an important piece towards trading for a higher end player as young players on cheap deals are ALWAYS in demand.

Witness us drafting someone like Frattin (4th) or Stalberg (6th) and them being the key piece towards acquiring Bernier or Versteeg as those teams needed affordable assets in return.

Even Kulemin (2nd) was rumored to be a key piece in an offer for Richards a few years ago.

Kulemin (2nd), Reimer (4th), Stalberg (6th), Frattin (4th), Gunnarson (7th).

But we need picks to do this which we should be stocking up on right now!

Every time a desired player is traded cheap young players and/or picks in the first 2 rounds are involved which is what we need more of if we ever hope to get a top of the lineup Dman or center.

Witness recent trades: Bernier, Bolland, JayBo, Richards, Carter, Seguin, Staal, Kessel, Ladd, Buff, Perron, etc.

 

[Faltorvo]

We are 5pts clear of being out of the playoffs. This thread is facepalm worthy.

We are 5 points from drafting 6th overall.

This could go either way, POs or top 10 pick.