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Prospect Info: Quinton Byfield (2nd Overall 2020 Draft) Discussion part II

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Byfield scored 3 goals last year.

In 53 games played.

What are we actually debating at this point?

Edit: Can’t we all just agree that Rob Blake is a garbage GM and Byfield needs to do everything he can to continue improving?
 
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KopitarGOAT420 said:
Good points here.

Consistency is often the most common 'issue' with young players. But as they get older and continue to round out their game, it often gets better and better.

I mean look at Gabe Vilardi for a perfect example. Coming into this season, he'd shown flashes too - But primarily struggled with consistency (as well as the defensive side of the game) and because of it, wasn't even a lock to make the Kings lineup.

Then he comes in this year and proves he can more consistently make those great plays and put up points (while playing strong D). Even Vilardi with the amazing year he had, tailed off a bit after his point per game start though the first 20 games or so - So even Gabe will still be trying to improve on the consistency aspect of his game next year.

I think another bright spot with QB that I'm not seeing talked about much is that he actually was pretty strong defensively for the most part. Of course he made some mistakes, but that was actually a pleasant surprise IMO.

I think we see a very similar story arc for Byfield. He'll use this off-season to polish up certain areas of his game and will be more consistent (and confident) because of it.
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Vilardi is an interesting comparison. I don't know if people remember but in the 21-22 season (his 3rd with LA) he looked like complete garbage. So much so he spent most of the year in Ontario.

This year was arguably his breakout year so it essentially took him about 85 NHL games before hitting his groove. If you just look at stats, through that same time frame for Byfield, it's pretty similar.

I would say next year is when Byfield has to demonstrate more of that consistency and start producing else the naysayers will have more credence and things start to look a bit bleak.
 
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Eagle Fang said:
Vilardi is an interesting comparison. I don't know if people remember but in the 21-22 season (his 3rd with LA) he looked like complete garbage. So much so he spent most of the year in Ontario.

This year was arguably his breakout year so it essentially took him about 85 NHL games before hitting his groove. If you just look at stats, through that same time frame for Byfield, it's pretty similar.

I would say next year is when Byfield has to demonstrate more of that consistency and start producing else the naysayers will have more credence and things start to look a bit bleak.
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Didn’t Byfield lose a bunch of weight/muscle last year after getting covid?

For some that takes a while to gain back
 
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BringTheReign said:
23 lbs. I think he was quoted recently in his exit interview about it.
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Yah. And that may have been some of the cause of his struggles this year. Since he now will have a full offseason to get back into shape.

I mean i think we all know someone who got covid and how it makes things that were once simple more of a challenge then before. (Like your morning jog is more challenging after getting sick than it was prior)

I cant imagine the effects that has on an athlete. Especially one as young as Byfield
 
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Herby said:
But what is a fair expectation for drafting a player #2 overall?

There are certainly plenty of Hall of Fame caliber players who have been taken that high, so I don’t see why it’s totally unreasonable.

But if Kopitar is unreasonable, how about a guy like PLD or Tyler Seguin? These guys aren’t HOF players, should QB be on the same level as these guys after 3 years?

Matt Duchene?
JVR?
Nolan Patrick?
Nail Yakupov?

He’s behind all of them at the same stage. From the guys who ended up huge stars to the guys who ended up huge busts and everyone in between.
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I'll bite, how is he behind Patrick?
 
I think it's fair to expect to draft a top line forward if you draft a forward in the top three picks of a draft. Forwards taken in the top 3 picks since 2013 and the number of seasons it took to reach 0.78 points/game (top 96 scoring forwards in the league scored at least 0.78 points/game this season) in a season:

2013: Nathan MacKinnon D+5, Aleksander Barkov D+3, Jonathan Drouin D+NOTYET (now D+10)
2014: Sam Reinhart D+8, Leon Draisaitl D+3
2015: Connor McDavid D+1, Jack Eichel D+2, Dylan Strome D+8
2016: Auston Mathews D+1, Patrik Laine D+1, Pierre-Luc Dubois D+NOTYET (now D+7)
2017: Nico Hischier D+5, Nolan Patrick D+NOTYET (now D+6)
2018: Andrei Svechnikov D+2, Jasper Kotkaniemi D+NOTYET (now D+5)
2019: Jack Hughes D+3, Kaapo Kakko D+NOTYET, Kirby Dach D+NOTYET (both now D+4)
2020: Alex Lafreniere D+NOTYET, Quinton Byfield D+NOTYET (both now D+3), Tim Stutzle D+3

Barkov, Draisaitl, Hughes, and Stutzle took until their 3rd year. McKinnon and Hischier took until their fifth year to break through into bona fide top six forwards. Lesson here is, be patient.

One could argue given injury and illness that Byfield really just finished his D+2 year. Hopefully he finds himself a good trainer and sports psychologist this summer and really brings it next season.
 
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I just think with Byfield there's a confluence of factors that imply he's going to take longer than most players picked 2OA.

He's 27 days away from being a 2021 draftee.

He's relatively young, inexperienced, raw and physically underdeveloped compared to most players taken 2OA.

In hindsight, he probably should have stayed another year in junior.

Perhaps there's an argument to be made he shouldn't have been picked so highly considering the above, but his attributes are irresistible to scouts and NHL teams.
 
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The excuses have run out, but despite everything he is still just 20 years old. Throw him out there next year with Fiala and Vilardi and see what he is made of and go from there. The excuses also have to stop from our development staff. Our main prospects need to be thrown in positions to succeed at their roles using their strengths. Clarke needs to be out there on the powerplay, Kaliyev needs to be in a position to score, and Byfield needs to be centering a scoring line, not a defensive unit.

I mean, just look at how Minnesota handled Faber. As soon as he was available they threw him out on NHL ice, burned a year of his contract, for 2 regular season and 6 playoff games and he looked great. He was out there for big situations and kills and rose to the challenge.

It is not like every player we pick is a bust and every player we trade or not select is amazing on some grand scale. There definitely is a correlation with our player development and coaching.
 
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johnjm22 said:
I just think with Byfield there's a confluence of factors that imply he's going to take longer than most players picked 2OA.

He's 27 days away from being a 2021 draftee.

He's relatively young, inexperienced, raw and physically underdeveloped compared to most players taken 2OA.

In hindsight, he probably should have stayed another year in junior.

Perhaps there's an argument to be made he shouldn't have been picked so highly considering the above, but his attributes are irresistible to scouts and NHL teams.
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the OHL shut down for Covid in 2020-21, the AHL/NHL was his only option to play that year. Injury in 2021-22
 
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The kid is a gifted athlete blessed with a frame that few humans possess. He could have probably played baseball and skipped this NHL development circus. His wallet might be heavier if he did.

I expected the Kings to pick Stutzle, because he was NHL ready and the Kings looked like they were trying to be competitive based on Doughty’s post season comments. But after the pick, I looked at QB’s videos and I thought he was someone this team could build around. Which is what I really wanted after watching multiple regimes try to build a winner while paying Kopitar and Doughty way more than everyone else.

I also appreciated the Kings picking a black player where a crucial decision was on the line. From what I can tell, QB didn’t grow up in a highly privileged environment, from both a life and hockey situation. My assumption is that someone who succeeds out of those circumstances is someone who can be resourceful and overcome obstacles.

Since he’s been Kings property, I’m disappointed in the results, because I hoped for way more and expected a lot better. The positive is he’s been given consistent opportunity when the team is strong, so management is still a believer.

I think the Kings GM sucks, but I don’t include Byfield in that assessment. The situation is a manifestation of the throw shit at the wall to see what sticks philosophy. Byfield starts at 1C in the AHL and ends up on Kopitar’s wing for the bulk of his nhl games. No one predicted that.

I understand the fans who have soured on QB as the guy to rebuild around. The ones who think he’s going to be a solid NHL’er when he’s 25 are probably right. I give zero shits about prospects or minor leaguers. But I got the sense that most guys drafted under Blake is a future NHL’er but not till they’re in the mid 20’s. No one ever felt like a guy who could make a difference asap.

And that extends to Clarke, he didn’t light the lamp in his NHL games. So expecting him to be a top rookie across the league next season isn’t something I can see happening. But when he’s 23-26, sure I see him as a top 150 player at least.

So it’s curious to hear Blake say the team must improve from within to get better next year. For that to happen, everyone good this year has to be around the same. But you need 2-3 prospects to really step up if you hope to improve and deal with all the different adversities that will come up.

That’s where a lack of track record bites you in the ass. Sure it’s possible Blake improves the roster while navigating the cap. But even the media mouthpieces aren’t trying to blow smoke up fans asses in this area. For all BLuc love to preach patience and point to Kempe a lot and Vilardi lately, the odds are against that happening for multiple prospects right in time for Kopitar and Doughty’s swan song.
 
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I seriously think I’m being trolled with the “be patient” comment. Is that suddenly going to make him look skilled out there? The players you should be patient over are the ones who show that high end skill. You have something to be patient over. What exactly have we seen from Byfield that should open up the “be patient” conversation?

Do you invest in a company that shows good promise that it’s worth being patient over or do you invest in a company that looks bad but for some reason you go all in on?

You guys are telling people to be patient when there’s no reason to think that player X who has shown no real particular skill that’s above Lizzotte. That’s the most mind numbing part here.

Yakupov was a bust even though he looked like a really solid player as a rookie. Byfield doesn’t even have that going for him.


Do any of you guys invest because someone says “bro just trust me”? Because I feel like that’s what you’re wanting people to buy in on. There’s nothing about Byfields game that screams top 6. Third line center maybe. But nothing else.


Don’t tell me about his random points.

Tell me again what does byfield do better than Lizotte. I feel like it’s the same crew who was riding the Petersen train when there was no reason to be so trusting of him. People constantly shit on Iafallo when he does everything. But we’re giving Byfield slack for doing nothing?
 
Sol said:
I seriously think I’m being trolled with the “be patient” comment. Is that suddenly going to make him look skilled out there? The players you should be patient over are the ones who show that high end skill. You have something to be patient over. What exactly have we seen from Byfield that should open up the “be patient” conversation?

Do you invest in a company that shows good promise that it’s worth being patient over or do you invest in a company that looks bad but for some reason you go all in on?

You guys are telling people to be patient when there’s no reason to think that player X who has shown no real particular skill that’s above Lizzotte. That’s the most mind numbing part here.

Yakupov was a bust even though he looked like a really solid player as a rookie. Byfield doesn’t even have that going for him.


Do any of you guys invest because someone says “bro just trust me”? Because I feel like that’s what you’re wanting people to buy in on. There’s nothing about Byfields game that screams top 6. Third line center maybe. But nothing else.


Don’t tell me about his random points.

Tell me again what does byfield do better than Lizotte. I feel like it’s the same crew who was riding the Petersen train when there was no reason to be so trusting of him.
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Again. Read what i posted last night. Dude had covid and lost 20+ pounds late last year.
He now has a full offseason to gain that back.
 
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kingskring said:
Again. Read what i posted last night. Dude had covid and lost 20+ pounds late last year.
He now has a full offseason to gain that back.
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Yeah we will see, maybe he will somehow pull a miracle like Vilardi. But at least Vilardi showed a lot of flashes of high end skill. Byfield sure lost some weight from covid but it seems like he lost a lot of skill too because he can’t handle a puck to save his life.

Put your money where your mouth is. Byfield defenders. If byfield scores 10 goals this season I will give you a 100 dollars. Who’s willing to make that deal? I will be shocked if he scores 10.
 
Sol said:
Yeah we will see, maybe he will somehow pull a miracle like Vilardi. But at least Vilardi showed a lot of flashes of high end skill. Byfield sure lost some weight from covid but it seems like he lost a lot of skill too because he can’t handle a puck to save his life.

Put your money where your mouth is. Byfield defenders. If byfield scores 10 goals this season I will give you a 100 dollars. Who’s willing to make that deal? I will be shocked if he scores 10.
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Uh. Those go hand in hand. That loss of weight/muscle could be one of the reasons his stamina was not good this season.
 
kingskring said:
Uh. Those go hand in hand. That loss of weight/muscle could be one of the reasons his stamina was not good this season.
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Alright then this should be easy for you. It’s a free 100 dollars if he scores 10 goals. Interested? He lost weight sure but it looks like he lost his hands too.
 
Sol said:
I seriously think I’m being trolled with the “be patient” comment. Is that suddenly going to make him look skilled out there? The players you should be patient over are the ones who show that high end skill. You have something to be patient over. What exactly have we seen from Byfield that should open up the “be patient” conversation?

Do you invest in a company that shows good promise that it’s worth being patient over or do you invest in a company that looks bad but for some reason you go all in on?

You guys are telling people to be patient when there’s no reason to think that player X who has shown no real particular skill that’s above Lizzotte. That’s the most mind numbing part here.

Yakupov was a bust even though he looked like a really solid player as a rookie. Byfield doesn’t even have that going for him.


Do any of you guys invest because someone says “bro just trust me”? Because I feel like that’s what you’re wanting people to buy in on. There’s nothing about Byfields game that screams top 6. Third line center maybe. But nothing else.


Don’t tell me about his random points.

Tell me again what does byfield do better than Lizotte. I feel like it’s the same crew who was riding the Petersen train when there was no reason to be so trusting of him. People constantly shit on Iafallo when he does everything. But we’re giving Byfield slack for doing nothing?
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It’s hard to argue. He scores less than Craig Johnson and is glaringly bad way too often. The one thing you can point to is that Kupari, Kaliyev and prior to this season Vilardi are pretty much the same. So is it the player or the team / mangement?
 
DoktorJeep said:
It’s hard to argue. He scores less than Craig Johnson and is glaringly bad way too often. The one thing you can point to is that Kupari, Kaliyev and prior to this season Vilardi are pretty much the same. So is it the player or the team / mangement?
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I think Kaliyev has shown a lot more promise than Byfield however Kaliyev doesn’t get the leash that byfield gets. Kupari seems a bit talented he just makes some stupid low IQ hockey errors. I’m sure a big chunk of it has to do with management and development. I don’t think people can argue however that Byfield strikes anyone as being a player with good skill. He just doesn’t.
 
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Kingfan1967 said:
the OHL shut down for Covid in 2020-21, the AHL/NHL was his only option to play that year. Injury in 2021-22
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You're right. I forgot about that.

In theory though, another year in junior probably would have made sense had it been an option.
 
Sol said:
I think Kaliyev has shown a lot more promise than Byfield however Kaliyev doesn’t get the leash that byfield gets. Kupari seems a bit talented he just makes some stupid low IQ hockey errors. I’m sure a big chunk of it has to do with management and development. I don’t think people can argue however that Byfield strikes anyone as being a player with good skill. He just doesn’t.
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They both get points once in a blue moon. I can see the goals from Arty being more impressive. But at the end of the day a top six winger is playing as a 14th forward. And a #1C is playing next to the guy whose job he’s supposed to take. It’s a complete jerk off on all fronts.
 
DoktorJeep said:
They both get points once in a blue moon. I can see the goals from Arty being more impressive. But at the end of the day a top six winger is playing as a 14th forward. And a #1C is playing next to the guy whose job he’s supposed to take. It’s a complete jerk off on all fronts.
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Yeah I think the real crime on this team is Kaliyev and Spence not playing for players like Durzi. Byfield getting top minutes for not scoring goals while arguably our best goal scorer is not even playing games.


Also, my bet with Herby never qualified because while he did come under 30 points, at 22. We agreed to him playing 70 games or more which he didnt.

Byfield scored at a 0.41 PPG while playing top line. Which would have gotten him to 28 points. So I was pretty much on pace with Byfields expected point total last year.

Long story short, I haven't been wrong yet about him.
 
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Sol said:
Yeah we will see, maybe he will somehow pull a miracle like Vilardi. But at least Vilardi showed a lot of flashes of high end skill. Byfield sure lost some weight from covid but it seems like he lost a lot of skill too because he can’t handle a puck to save his life.

Put your money where your mouth is. Byfield defenders. If byfield scores 10 goals this season I will give you a 100 dollars. Who’s willing to make that deal? I will be shocked if he scores 10.
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I already said I expect 15 + 30 next season, but I don't gamble (not judging those who do, I just get no enjoyment from it).

Feel free to bookmark and ridicule me at this time next year though.
 
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